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Need new battery?

blueagle

blueagle

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Messages
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Location
Buckinghamshire
Car
GT 2.2 i-CTDI
My car out of a blue decided not to start couple of weeks ago because battery was totally flat. So I jump started it and everything was back to normal. Then the same thing happened on Sunday. Jump started and its been no problem. I've noticed if I don't start it up roughly within 24 hours period, battery goes flat. Car is doing a lot of short journeys at the moment like 2-3 miles so its not getting a lot of long runs. So I'm wondering is it due to the short journeys that the alternator isn't getting chance to fully charge it or is it time for a new battery? I've got Delphi Freedom 57412 in it currently.
As always I would appreciate some advise. :)
 
blueagle said:
My car out of a blue decided not to start couple of weeks ago because battery was totally flat. So I jump started it and everything was back to normal. Then the same thing happened on Sunday. Jump started and its been no problem. I've noticed if I don't start it up roughly within 24 hours period, battery goes flat. Car is doing a lot of short journeys at the moment like 2-3 miles so its not getting a lot of long runs. So I'm wondering is it due to the short journeys that the alternator isn't getting chance to fully charge it or is it time for a new battery? I've got Delphi Freedom 57412 in it currently.
As always I would appreciate some advise. :)
Click to expand...
Obviously it could be a duff battery, but it might also be a duff alternator, or something unexpectedly draining the charge from the battery when you leave the vehicle. You'll need to have a multimeter available.

How old is the battery? If it's less than, say, 5 years old then it should be OK. If in good condition, then the terminal voltages (with engine off) should be as in this link - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Car_battery#Terminal_voltage

With the engine started and running at 1500 - 2000 RPM the terminal voltage should rise to over 14V and then stay at that level with the headlights and HRW switched on - this tests that the alternator is working OK.

Finally - with the engine off - measure the current flowing from the battery into the vehicle with everything turned off. There will be a small current flowing, but should be less than around 100mA (0.1A). DO NOT TRY TO START THE ENGINE WHILE DOING THIS ...you'll wreck the ammeter!!

My 2005 diesel tourer also has a Delphi Freedom 57412 and I'm pretty sure this is the original battery. If you do buy a new battery, don't just get one that matches/exceeds the AmpHr capacity, but make also sure that the CCA rating is also at least as high as the Delphi (diesels are very fussy about this). Honda were recently fairly competetive with the pricing of replacement batteries.
 
Jon thanks for your prompt and detailed reply. I've got the multimeter somewhere at home, I'll do the tests you've suggested and would update the thread. I believe battery is original which is about 5 and half years old.
I was also wondering could it be low level of ionised water in the battery? I couldn't work out how to take the top off to check the level?
 
Ok, I did the tests as you suggested and here are the results. These were done roughly an hour later after a car had a non-stop run of around 25 miles, half of them were motorway miles so I'm ***uming alternator had plenty of time to charge the battery.
Car turned off: 12.27
Car started and running at idle revs with headlights and hazard lights on: 14.15
Turned off and the immediate reading after that I got was 12.60
Tested again this morning before starting it up and it was 11.17. Boot lid was left open all night (my son loves pressing the buttons on the key fob whenever he gets hold of my keys) so boot light was on all night which I guess makes this reading not too reliable?
 
As the boot light was on all night the reading you got is unreliable, so you'll need to do it again. To really get to the bottom of this you also need to the battery drain test which Jon mentions - this is to make sure you haven't got some piece of equipment which is failing to go to sleep and is draining the battery.

The charging figure looks fine, the other two reliable figures are OK - ish, but lower than for a really healthy battery..
 
Thanks Alan. I'll do that tonight.
I don't understand how would I do this test? "Finally - with the engine off - measure the current flowing from the battery into the vehicle with everything turned off. There will be a small current flowing, but should be less than around 100mA (0.1A). DO NOT TRY TO START THE ENGINE WHILE DOING THIS ...you'll wreck the ammeter!!"

Where do I need to connect the multimeter cables to get this reading?
 
Rather than my trying to explain it here's a link to a good article - http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/how-to/repair/how-to-stop-car-battery-drains . A few things to be careful of - firstly do the test between the negative terminal and the battery earth lead (that's much safer than doing it between the positive terminal and lead). Secondly make sure you've connected up the test leads to the correct terminals on your multimeter and finally start the test using the higher setting on your multimeter.

From the readings you've given so far I suspect your battery's on the way out but it's worth doing this test to make sure there's not another problem lurking.
 
If the battery's 5 years old why not replace it anyway? I replaced mine because it was the original, everything worked fine it was just old so I replaced it. Seems logical rather than wasting time testing things to save £50 when the battery will likely be replaced in the next 12 months regardless.
 
If it was my car I'd chuck a new battery on it because the old one is probably at the end of its life. I'd still do the drain test though (it's only a 5 minute job) to make sure there wasn't else that was going to cause a problem even with a new battery fitted.
 
If you need a new battery, get an oem one from your local Honda dealers.

For some bizarre reason batteries are about the only thing that is cheaper from Honda dealers rather than the normal twice the price.
 
I'm definitely going to replace the battery because there's no way, I'll go through winters with this one. The main reason to start the thread was to get help on confirming it wasn't the alternator that was faulty or there's nothing in the car that's draining the battery while its switched off.
Parents are going to Stoke to see my sis so I'll be getting a new battery from HH. I also need new brake pads so would get them all from there. :)
Alan, I'm pretty sure leads on the multimeter are connected correctly. I followed a really good tutorial on youtube before I started the tests. So I would attach the black cable from multimeter with the negative on the battery and red with the earth lead? I'm guessing within few minutes, I'll see reading going down slowly by few hundred milliamps?
 
blueagle said:
I'm definitely going to replace the battery because there's no way, I'll go through winters with this one. The main reason to start the thread was to get help on confirming it wasn't the alternator that was faulty or there's nothing in the car that's draining the battery while its switched off.
Parents are going to Stoke to see my sis so I'll be getting a new battery from HH. I also need new brake pads so would get them all from there. :)
Alan, I'm pretty sure leads on the multimeter are connected correctly. I followed a really good tutorial on youtube before I started the tests. So I would attach the black cable from multimeter with the negative on the battery and red with the earth lead? I'm guessing within few minutes, I'll see reading going down slowly by few hundred milliamps?
Click to expand...
Yes, black lead to battery negative terminal & red lead to the now disconnected earth lead. Set multimeter to ammeter mode and select highest range (then change range, if necessary, to get a clear reading). With ignition key removed, there will still be a small current flow taken by the vehicle electronics but will be low (probably 10s of mA), if greater than 100mA then you should investigate (make sure no interior lamps, etc remain on). Reading probably won't drop!

I agree it's probably the battery, but I wouldn't write it off just because it's 5 years old (mine is over 7 and our 2003 MR2 still has it's original battery).
 
My point re making sure the test leads are connected correctly were really about the connections at the multimeter end. Because the meter is used most of the time for voltage or resistance readings it's easy to just plug the leads in as normal without thinking - a lesson I learnt from bitter experience.
 
Ok guys, did the test you suggested and the current flow was 0.1A. I've decided to get the battery ASAP. Is this a good buy? My brother-in-law gets 15% discount from GSF
http://www.gsfcarparts.com/971aa0962
I've rung my local Honda and they've quoted £66.29, don't have one in stock but could get tomorrow so I would like to know which one I should go for. Thanks :)
 
The one in your link is also out of stock! Can't tell much about it, as they don't state the CCA figure (which is important for diesels).

A Honda one will probably work out around the same cost if you buy from HH with a TA discount, and you'd also know that you'd got the absolute correct battery. Hopefully you'll get free next day delivery?

Bottom line... get one from Honda.
 
Jon, I had completely forgotten about the free postage so I just rang HH, spoke with very helpful Martin and he's given me incredible price. Order battery, break pads and wipers. Thank you HH!!!
 
I've got this one in mine - http://www.tayna.co.uk/E44-Varta-Silver-Car-Battery-577400078-P7726.html . It's a bit OTT for the job but performs really well, especially in cold weather.
 
blueagle said:
Jon, I had completely forgotten about the free postage so I just rang HH, spoke with very helpful Martin and he's given me incredible price. Order battery, break pads and wipers. Thank you HH!!!
Click to expand...
Did you PM an admin for a discount code, or did HH allow you a discount anyway?
 
H Peasource said:
I've got this one in mine - http://www.tayna.co.uk/E44-Varta-Silver-Car-Battery-577400078-P7726.html . It's a bit OTT for the job but performs really well, especially in cold weather.
Click to expand...

That's exactly the same one I got and from the same place - it's not OTT I believe it is a more sensible choice.
 
Jon_G said:
More sensible than what? And why?
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I didn't set out to buy that battery, it was just that I was offerred one at a very good price. I think that the "more sensible" comment was aimed at the fact that it has a highher CCA than the standard battery.
 
Hi Alan, I genuinely wasn't questioning your choice of battery - the specs looked good to me (but was a little more expensive?). But I didn't understand Big Pete's comment about it being 'more sensible' without any explanation of why - he might have a excellent point that we've somehow all missed, or maybe he simply prefers the colour? :D
 
Now I'm also curious to know in what ways Bosch one is better than the standard Honda one which I believe would be Delphi because that's the one I've currently got in my car. :unsure:
 
My stuffs have arrived today and I'm thinking of swapping the batteries this evening when I'm at home. It looks pretty straight forward so is there anything I need to worry about or do something in certain order? I've never done this before but would like to tackle it if its nothing too complicated. Thanks
 
blueagle said:
My stuffs have arrived today and I'm thinking of swapping the batteries this evening when I'm at home. It looks pretty straight forward so is there anything I need to worry about or do something in certain order? I've never done this before but would like to tackle it if its nothing too complicated. Thanks
Click to expand...
Pretty simple and as obvious as it looks! But best to disconnect the negative (-) connection first, then the positive (+) one. And - after swopping the battery - connect positive first, then negative. This order will reduce the chance of shorting your spanner from the positive connection to chassis/earth/ground. Smear a bit of petroleum jelly/vaseline on the terminals afterwards to keep corrosion at bay.

As battery disconnection resets the ECU, you might notice that the engine doesn't quite run so well or may have a reduced MPG... but after a few days the ECU will relearn and adapt (you probably won't notice). If you have non-standard ICE, then that may need recoding?
 
blueagle said:
My stuffs have arrived today and I'm thinking of swapping the batteries this evening when I'm at home. It looks pretty straight forward so is there anything I need to worry about or do something in certain order? I've never done this before but would like to tackle it if its nothing too complicated. Thanks
Click to expand...

Simple and straightforward to do. There's just one safety precaution to observe - disconnect the negative (i.e. earth) lead first, then the positive lead. When re-connecting to the new battery put the positive lead on first and then the negative. There's a clamp over the top of the battery that needs to be removed. Loosen each of the nuts by about an inch and you can then unhook the bottom parts of the clamp from the battery tray, Don't overtighten the nuts when putting the clamp back on.
 
Jon_G said:
Hi Alan, I genuinely wasn't questioning your choice of battery - the specs looked good to me (but was a little more expensive?). But I didn't understand Big Pete's comment about it being 'more sensible' without any explanation of why - he might have a excellent point that we've somehow all missed, or maybe he simply prefers the colour? :D
Click to expand...

Well, they didn't do a pink one! In terms of what I paid think of roughly half the price on that website.
 
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