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It's official, you CAN remap a 2003 Accod 2.4 Type S!

gavin1977

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Location
N Ireland
Car
CL9 Type S iVTEC
So I went up to Auto Tune in Ballymena (30 miles north of Belfast) today hoping to get the ECU remapped and K&N inductionkit fitted. Also had a K&N oil filter and oil change done at the same time.

FIrst things first, big thanks to Ryan at Auto Tune, he works away with no drama and is very easy to talk to. The first thing he did was dyno the car to get a benchmark for comparison with the car post-map. This gave 191 bhp and approx. 150 lbft of torque. The graph confirmed what I have always felt about the car - there is a horrible torque black hole around 5k rpm before the vtec kicks in and stabilises things right up to the std limiter (approx 7,300 - 7,400 rpm on my car). The torque dip is so bad that the horsepower actually dips also!

With thi completed the car was put on the lift and JP (ex Honda mechanic and owner of a very cool red modified DC2 ITR) whipped out the ECU, gave it to Ryan and started work putting in the K&N kit and oil change.

Ryan then sent the serial number on the ECU to Paisini who then sent him three diagrams of circuit board to choose from...and it wasn't any of them! At this point I started to think that the sceptics in the forum were correct and it couldn't be mapped. However, Ryan was confident that it could be done - apparently the circuit board is very similar to the 2.0 Accord's so he knew that even if Piasini couldn't confirm which terminals he had to plug the Piasini tool into he could work it out with a multimeter! Eventually Piasini sent the correct circuit diagram and Ryan was able to hook it up and read the standard map - result! At this stage I knew it was definitely going to work.

Ryan then emailed this to Paisini and they emailed back the new map, which was uploaded and then the ECU was put back in the car. All tht was left was to warm up the engine and put the car back on the rolling road. This was the tense bit as everyone in the workshop gravitated towards the car now that the K&N was giving it a wicked snort!

Dyno completed and the end result is 207bhp! A full 16 hp increase, which I think is super on a naturally aspirated car. When you look further into the graph you also notice that there is a 20 - 25 hp increase across the mid-range with peak torque now over 170 lbft. The before and after dyno runs are below:

accordtypestunedwithcai.jpg

So how does it feel?

When you are driving normally, as far as I can tell after an hours driving, no different. However, when you stamp on the accelerator the feeling and sound can only be described in the word uttered by Sir Patrick Stewart in a recent advert for a price comparison website - EPIC! The car feels more urgent from low down the rev range and when you pass the peak torque at about 4,500 rpm it softens very slightly but still pulls hard all the way to 7,000 rpm. Really makes a noticeable difference to power delivery, much more linear and feels more oem than the standard map.

The most noticeable and probably most enjoyable thing is the sound. The K&N opens up a whole orchestra of sound that just wasn't there before. On three-qarters throttle or more there is a real roaring thrum that builds with the revs. It really does sound spectacular, not really a whooshing sound as I had expected but more like the CAIS lets you hear the engine working much more clearly and the tone change when the vtec comes in is great. People will stop and look when you put your foot down! It is the best of both worlds, however, as when you are cruising or accelerating at 50% throttle or less you wouldn't know that the intake wasn't completely standard so no annoying droning at motorway speeds or in commuter traffic.

Overall I am delighted with the results and am leaving it there in terms of mods for the engine as anything else short of a supercharger is not going to give good bang for buck. To sum up the car now, I woudn't feel like a fraud if I were to replace the Type S badge with a Type R. The engine pulls hard right through the rev range and the induction sound is metallic, honda thrum at its best!

If anyone has any estions feel free to ask. I gues this kinda makes all the 'can I swap ECUs / immobilisers / hondatas into my car?' questions redundant...!!!
 
I gues this kinda makes all the 'can I swap ECUs / immobilisers / hondatas into my car?' questions redundant...!!!
It does indeed Gavian !!!!

In fact, if no-one else can emulate what you've had done, I'm going to get the ferry to N. Ireland.

Can they do it by post ???
 
It does indeed Gavian !!!!

In fact, if no-one else can emulate what you've had done, I'm going to get the ferry to N. Ireland.

Can they do it by post ???

They just use a Piasini Engineering tuning tool, so any other tuning companies that use the same thing around the UK (eg XO Tuning) should be able to do it. If there is one here in NI there are bound to be plenty about in GB.
 
They just use a Piasini Engineering tuning tool, so any other tuning companies that use the same thing around the UK (eg XO Tuning) should be able to do it. If there is one here in NI there are bound to be plenty about in GB.
Understood.

You ought to add a link to this in the DIY section, the thread "Accord PETROL Remap"
 
Wow that is a serious development. We have always been under the impression that the pre facelift cannot be done.
Your comments are very positive and I'm sure you will be flooded with questions. This map now puts it on par with a diesel remap.
Do they do anything for the 2.0?
 
Fantastic mate, and thank you for clearing this up!!

It seems that Piasini misinformed us too :lol: but at least we know now.. I think my brother is going to be happy ;)
 
Only other thing to note is that we don't use Piasini's maps, as good as they are we've developed our own - but the hardware is theirs as it's still the best for working on the K series.
 
150 lbft of torque.

I'm bit surprised the engine only managed that torque figure prior to mapping. Admittedly, I don't know the data figures for that engine but it seems on the low side, 170 lb ft+ would seem more likely. And if that's the case maybe there was a problem with engine prior to mapping, if so there maybe there's a bit more to be gained yet?
 
This is great news for our preface lift 2.4 boys good write up mate.
 
WooHoo.gif


Ok, where can I get this done a little nearer than Ireland and how much is it likely to set me back? ;)
 
Steve - watch this space, this is the clarification I was waiting for as a part of me knew this could be done, it just needed someone to persevere to find the right way for the Piasini tool to communicate with the ECU. It would seem that Piasini themselves didn't know their tool could talk to the early K24 ECU's so hats of the guy in Ireland who persevered and sussed it.

We'll get in touch with Piasini this week and seek clarification on what pins we need to use for read/flash... and hopefully get my brother's done very soon now.

Tuning the K series is nothing new for us, just talking to these early ECU's is.
 
+1;)
 
very eager to know if it can be done to the 2.0l. K20A cause I was under the impression that it couldn't.

I'm only 3 hours away from belfast, I'd be up like a shot.
 
I think the 2.0 probably can be done, Ryan said that the 2003 Type S ECU and 2.0 ECU circuit layouts are very similar. If you give him a call i'm sure he can help you - 02825 630041. Only thing is he will probably need the ECU serial number to send to Piasini to confirm but check this out with him. Having checked the Piasini website the 2.0 is quoted there with performance gains shown so would be pretty confident it can be done - http://www.piasiniengineering.com/index.php?id=75

I imagine the K&N definitely does help increase horsepower as it really does free up the airflow and bring in colder air from behind the foglight - they recommended that I actually remove the foglight or replace it with a piece of plastic with holes drilled in it to improve airflow further! But its the sound that is worth every last penny - I was flooring it at every opportunity this morning (of couse, in a responsible and safe way and always within the speed limit...). The great thing is that the induction roar is only there when near full throttle, the rest of the time you can drive along and it is just the normal Type S refinement.

On the 150 lbft on std map, this was a bit odd. I had the car dyno'd at the same place 2 months ago and while the peak horsepower was more or less the same, the peak torque has dropped by just over10 lbft. In the original graph there was more of a 'bulge' in the torque between 3k and 6k rpm, topping out at just over 160 lbft, where as in the latest one the torque is quite flat across this rev range.

Irrespective of this, the peak torque and peak power with the remap is around what I had expected based on the Paisini figures and the car goes really well so am happy that I am getting the full benefit of the remap.

If anyone wants to know what price they are looking at PM me.
 
Did you run a RR road with and without the Typhoon to see the difference that just the map made, compared to the map + typhoon, or perhaps the Typhoon on it's own, to compare the three (or 4) different scenarios?

Would be interesting to see the bhp etc for -

Standard
Standard plus Typhoon
Standard plus Map
Standard plus Map & Typhoon

Then you can gauge the actual benefits of each mod.
 
Time is money to those guys and so are dyno runs. When you are talking about 15 bhp overall I wasn't concerned enough about the relative benefits to want to pony up another 50 - 100 quid.

I imagine the K&N would give about 5 bhp on its own but the graph would have the same shape, ie dip in torque at 5k rpm as it wouldn't change the vtec engagement point. No doubt the majority of the extra hp across the range is from the remap.
 
On the 150 lbft on std map, this was a bit odd. I had the car dyno'd at the same place 2 months ago and while the peak horsepower was more or less the same, the peak torque has dropped by just over10 lbft. In the original graph there was more of a 'bulge' in the torque between 3k and 6k rpm, topping out at just over 160 lbft, where as in the latest one the torque is quite flat across this rev range.

Irrespective of this, the peak torque and peak power with the remap is around what I had expected based on the Paisini figures and the car goes really well so am happy that I am getting the full benefit of the remap.


Cool. One of the reasons I questioned the original torque figure was simply I'm always a bit sceptical about remaps on modern n/a engines but great to hear that you're happy with the results. Any noticeable difference on MPG yet?
 
Did you run a RR road with and without the Typhoon to see the difference that just the map made, compared to the map + typhoon, or perhaps the Typhoon on it's own, to compare the three (or 4) different scenarios?

Would be interesting to see the bhp etc for -

Standard
Standard plus Typhoon
Standard plus Map
Standard plus Map & Typhoon

Then you can gauge the actual benefits of each mod.
I'm a 100% with you on that but as mentioned RR time is money.. If I was going that route I'd also be using two different dyno places too, to carry out exactly same comparisons. That could be really very interesting.
 
Fair point, but it makes comparing the results very difficult.

You could find that the Typhoon at £200 gave you 10bhp and that a £500 remap only put another 5bhp on top, which would be a disappointing £/bhp gain for the remap. Then again the Typhoon could have made little or no difference.

It is just that some real good dyno'd gains have been seen on the ATR with just a Typhoon alone.
 
How will this remap affect the emmissions of the car, will it still pass an MOT.
 
I think the car is held at natural idle as well as fast idle which is about 3k rpm
 
^ :lol: idle speed is an interesting topic, but back on topic


I will get my ECU remapped sometime next year :D

(awaiting more news from Fahad et al)
 
I have a cold air intake on my 2.4. It gives the car a nicer feel in the low and medium revs, and as stated sounds incredible. But I reckon the remap will add more of a gain than the CAI.

Also, the K24 likes to be treated a certain way in order to get the most out of the VTC around 3-4K. Just flooring it I find doesn't get that same torque kick as when you give it a quick 2nd kick at around 3.5-4.5K. A sudden lift and stomp seems to wake the car up (or wake up the VTC to its most aggressive stance), the node angle alters with the sudden full throttle and the CAI starts to roar until you hit VTEC and the roar becomes thunder.

Maybe this (the VTC response - or lack of) will naturally give a slightly dull torque readout on straight full throttle runs that doesn't quite translate to on the road experience of feathering the throttle for grip through corners etc. After Honda are all about balance and poise at speed over sheer straight line right? I'm just thinking out loud here though, so don't take any of this seriously.
 
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