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Heater Problems

RF900R

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West Sussex
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Type S Tourer
Hi guys,

I've been a long time lurker here, but have recently had an issue with my Type S heater which hopefully you may be able to help with?

The car has been off the road for a couple of years, so recently had it MOT'd and it's back up and running. On a recent long drive, I noticed that only the passenger's side of the car was working with the heater controls, the drivers side was just cold air. I've read a few posts on here about aircon problems, but not sure that is what's happening here. I had the system re-gassed when it had it's MOT and the aircon worked fine back then. The pump kicks in when the aircon's engaged and the fan works find, just two temperatures - cold (when aircons on) and not so cold (when it's off).

I've tried checking all the relays (as per a previous post) and they all seem to be fine. The dealer seems to think it's the controls, but I'm not sure I want to give them carte blanche to start systematically changing things until they find the problem.

Does anyone here have any ideas, or experienced a similar problem?

Many thanks

Paul
 
Hi Paul,

Welcome to TA. Where about in Sussex are you?

Just to be clear, are you saying your driver side heater control isn't working as it should? It does allow you to set cold and hot, but nothing in between? No happy medium? If so, this is an odd one. A relay would make sense for a simple on/off problem, but the fact that it's relating to the intermediate settings, could point towards a controller issue as Honda suggest.

My line of thought would be is yours one with circular knobs for the hot/cold dial or is it buttons for temperature up and down?

If it's the knobs, does they spin endlessly or do they stop? I have the push button climate control of the Exec, so don't know what the other spec systems are like. Anyway, if the knob stops, it's probably just a potentiometer and little squirt of switch cleaner inside the pot could clean out any gunk and help it register properly again? Might be tricky to get at the inside, but if you can find a way in without too much bother, have a crack at this.

If the knob spins endlessly however, it means it's a digital rotary encoder. Not so simple to clean, but also, I'd say less likely to be the cause of a problem like the one you describe.

I guess another thing could be your in-cabin thermometer not working as it should? To your left as you're sat at the wheel, down above your left knee you should see a couple of little slots in the plastic. Remove the trim underneath the steering wheel and look up there, you'll see a translucent plastic tube. Down the other end is your in cabin thermometer. Check there's no big blobs of dirt of fluff are stuck in there as this could be throwing your system out of whack.

That said, I'm not 100% sure if that's not just an Exec feature :unsure: .

Anyway, I'm sure other members might have other suggestions. Also, if you try searching the forum for any ideas, be sure to use the Google Custom search as the forum's own search is a load of guff!
 
Hi Paul,

Welcome to TA. Where about in Sussex are you?

Just to be clear, are you saying your driver side heater control isn't working as it should? It does allow you to set cold and hot, but nothing in between? No happy medium? If so, this is an odd one. A relay would make sense for a simple on/off problem, but the fact that it's relating to the intermediate settings, could point towards a controller issue as Honda suggest.

My line of thought would be is yours one with circular knobs for the hot/cold dial or is it buttons for temperature up and down?

If it's the knobs, does they spin endlessly or do they stop? I have the push button climate control of the Exec, so don't know what the other spec systems are like. Anyway, if the knob stops, it's probably just a potentiometer and little squirt of switch cleaner inside the pot could clean out any gunk and help it register properly again? Might be tricky to get at the inside, but if you can find a way in without too much bother, have a crack at this.

If the knob spins endlessly however, it means it's a digital rotary encoder. Not so simple to clean, but also, I'd say less likely to be the cause of a problem like the one you describe.

I guess another thing could be your in-cabin thermometer not working as it should? To your left as you're sat at the wheel, down above your left knee you should see a couple of little slots in the plastic. Remove the trim underneath the steering wheel and look up there, you'll see a translucent plastic tube. Down the other end is your in cabin thermometer. Check there's no big blobs of dirt of fluff are stuck in there as this could be throwing your system out of whack.

That said, I'm not 100% sure if that's not just an Exec feature :unsure: .

Anyway, I'm sure other members might have other suggestions. Also, if you try searching the forum for any ideas, be sure to use the Google Custom search as the forum's own search is a load of guff!
 
Hi there - I'm just north of sunny Worthing so aircon is always a bonus (!)

I'm not sure I made myself too clear, so sorry about that. The problem started only on the drivers side. Both passenger and drivers temperature was set at about 22 degrees, but I was still freezing cold, and the passengers side was nice and comfy. Over a couple of days, the problem has now manifest itself into both sides of the car. There is no change in temperature at all, it just stay the same regardless of whatever the climate display says, and the the only difference is when you switch the aircon on it just gets colder. Turning the dials (the passenger one does spin right around, but I belive it's supposed to) makes no difference at all, aircon on or off.

I will check the cabin temperature sensor - the car has been off road for two years, so there could be a family of spiders up there blocking it up! It's worth a try!
 
So it's just blowing cold all the time? But will get even colder if the air con is on?
 
How about the heater? The thing that warms the air. Or can you not control how strong the air blows? I mean can you control the fan speed, it just doesn't blow warm when you want it to?
 
Hmm, probably a heater issue. The part itself, a relay or something. I can't believe it's the controls. That's look looking for the most complicated solution first :rolleyes: . Always best to start with fuses, relays, then the heater itself, or the sensors that tell the heater what temperature the cabin is. I'd look to the controls as a last resort.
 
Steve and I have the same car btw and I wrote the DIY thread on aircon problems, but I'm not sure of the difference between the S-type and the Exec (which is why I've kept out so far).

On the exec, the flaps in the ducts are moved by motors, and if it's done the same way in the S-type, then I'd say that is the problem. I think that you don't have the built-in sat-nav either, so I'm guessing that there is no "Auto" button i.e. on the exec you can only manually control the fan speed and directions from inside the sat-nav display, in Auto it does it all for you (though what it Auto does I've no idea).

I'm guessing that the s-type is all manual, so you presumably have buttons for directing the air-flow etc. IMO this may still be done by motors, not wires.

If you can, take a picture of the controls and put it up in a post (you need a photobucket account or similar, then you put an http reference within the post to the image)
 
Thanks Freddofrog - I'll get a picture uploaded later today. Not seen the Exec interior either, so can't compare, but there is an auto button on the dash too, but as you say, no built in satnav.
 
I reckon they will be the same. Maybe try to listen for the motors to move. Do this with the engine off and adjust the tempreture.

Also you mentioned that the car was stood for 2 years so maybe you have a blocked heater matrix?
 
I reckon they will be the same. Maybe try to listen for the motors to move. Do this with the engine off and adjust the tempreture.

Also you mentioned that the car was stood for 2 years so maybe you have a blocked heater matrix?
+1 for blocked heater matrix, also, probably a motor to move the valve on the matrix, if valve or motor seized, that's it for sure

but not sure if it's possible to hear the motors, can't in my car
 
Hi guys, please see below a link to a picture of the control panel.

However, the plot thickens! I took the fuse out to check that it wasn't blown, all seemed well so put it back. Got in the car and tried the heater controls, and now they're working on the passenger side perfectly, but not on the drivers side.

Also, when I adjust the vents, I can hear the motors working on the vents, so that seems to be ok too.

My brain hurts! :(

http://i1316.photobucket.com/albums/t619/paulbaker521/General%20Stuff/IMAG06721_zpsf65d25cf.jpg
 
Hmmm, how about the heater filament itself. Maybe it's just not getting hot? Needs replacing or its fuse has gone?
 
Here are the components in the heater unit in the Exec. I would think that the S-type is very similar.

heatr_unit_zpsc48a8814.png


This link might give it again with the numbers listed http://www.lingshondaparts.com/honda_car_parts_selection_pfk.php?block_01=17SEA01&block_02=B__1721&block_03=2768%20?

If not then here are the most relevant components

5 = CORE SUB ***Y. HEATER MATRIX
6 = MOTOR ***Y. MODE
7 = MOTOR ***Y. TEMPERATURE DRIVER
8 = MOTOR ***Y. TEMPERATURE PASSENGER
12 = CABLE, WATER VALVE CONTROL
16 = EVAPORATOR COMP.

The mode motor 6 will adjust direction flaps, this can be heard with the engine off. It's also interesting to note that the valve on the heater matrix (not in the diagram) is controlled by a cable 12, which could also be driven by the mode motor. I presume that the mode motor has different positions for different direction combinations.
On my car, I cannot hear the motor ***emblies 7 or 8, because I ***ume that these are controlled by the temperature controller, and they will adjust flaps that direct air flow from the evaporator 16 and/or heater matrix 5. These will only move when the heater matrix is hot and/or the evaporator is cold, so engine must be running, so you ain't going to hear them.


With everything going on as described in the fault finding, IMO it is most probably the motor 7 which is stuck, with 8 intermittent. Otherwise, it's the controller itself or the thermistors 22 (as Steve said) but only one is shown in the diagram (these diagrams are not perfect, two are shown in the diagram for the diesel car).
 
Thanks for all the replies, it's been very helpful! Well, last night the heating packed up again on the passengers side, so I'm inclined to think it's an intermittent fault on the motors. Will take a look and see how easy they are to replace.
 
I've never removed the centre console, but other people have on the Exec, and from your picture it would be the same procedure as the Exec. But no idea how much of the heater unit you can get to through there.

IMAG06721_zpsf65d25cf.jpg
 
On the Exec, you can set the aircon to Manual in an A/C menu that comes up in the satnav display.
In this menu, you can set A/C to Off, which turns the compressor off (the menu also allows mode to be set, plus blower speed)
i.e. in manual mode with the compressor off, all the settings operate merely as a conventional heater.

Some more info ....
I went out in the car to Morrisons, only a couple of miles there and back, so the engine was at operating temperature but not hot under the bonnet.
With the ignition on but engine off, I put the temperature setting up to Hi, then moved it down 1C at a time.
At each 1C movement, I could hear the motors on the temperature flaps move a little.
When it reached 22C, there was a longer movement, and when I put it back up to 23C there was a long movement again.
Note that the dash showed outside temperature of 20C.

The long movement is the valve on the heater matrix, which can be seen in the bulkhead in the engine compartment.
When no more heat input is required, the valve is shut.
i.e. the valve is either fully open, or fully closed.
As I mentioned before, temperature is controlled by motorised flaps which duct hot air from the heater matrix, or cold air from the evaporator.

Picture of valve on the bulkhead in the open position

IMAG0555__zps0f8598e7.jpg


Picture of valve on the bulkhead in the closed position

IMAG0556__zpsffadb3f7.jpg
 
That's interesting stuff, thanks for the pics too, I'll take a look at mine this evening. I went out last night to watch the shooting stars (sad, I know), but the other half confirmed that her feet were nice and warm while mine where chilled! I'm convinved that its the motors that are causing the problem!
 
I forgot to look at the night sky last night, I'm hoping to see something tonight.

If her feet are nice and warm then the valve must be open. Just check that it's open at high temp settings and shut at low temp settings.
If you want your feet to not get cold, also switch your A/C off (I presume that's what the A/C button is for, those 4 upper buttons are not present on the Exec, in effect they're in the menu in the satnav display). You should hear the compressor stop.
Also check that the Dual button is working i.e. try it in Dual mode and non-Dual mode. I haven't tried Dual mode in my car btw.

But overall it points to a stuck motor on your side :(
 
Here's a picture of my valve:

http://i1316.photobucket.com/albums/t619/paulbaker521/General%20Stuff/IMAG0694_zps99274688.jpg

Now, I've just got back from work, so that's a very hot engine. Adjusted the heater controls in the cabin, and the valve didn't move at all. Now, I suppose this could be because the engine is hot, or maybe it's seized too?
 
Ok, so I've just checked again, and the passenger side has packed up again, and this time the valve is closed. I've run the engine and watched it, but it's not opening when I adjust the cabin temperature so I think there's a couple of problems here. One is the valve is operating intermittently, and the other is the motor on the drivers side.
 
yeah your picture shows it in the open position, if it won't open now then it might be the actuator (that might be the thing called "transistor, power" item 11 in the link back in post #17) as well as the motor on the flap on the driver's side.

But there's another different possibility ....
If the thermistor on the driver's side is duff, maybe the "dual" button is flipping from off to on (check the light on the "dual" button) i.e. dual off, both temperatures are controlled by the driver's side so if the thermistor is duff then both sides will go cold (and the heater valve will shut). Then when dual on, the valve will open and the passenger side goes warm ...check that the passenger controller makes the valve open and close when the passenger side is working.
 
btw I presume that the target temperatures are displayed up above the centre console (as in the Exec).

Have you checked
1. that with Dual off, both target temperatures move up when rotating the driver's temperature control clockwise

2. that with Dual off, both target temperatures move dowm when rotating the driver's temperature control anti clockwise

3. that with Dual on, passenger target temperature moves up when rotating the passenger's temperature control clockwie, and is not affected by driver's temperatue control

4. that with Dual on, passenger target temperature moves down when rotating the passenger's temperature control anti clockwie, and is not affected by driver's temperatue control


If those work ok, then dual selector is ok, so if the problem persists then it's probably the flap motor on the driver's side plus the valve actuator that are playing up
 
Yeah, all the heater displays are working correctly, so I'm going to focus my attention on the valve and motor. If anyone knows an easy way to acces the motor that would be handy............
 
I just saw some useful pics in this thread that was resurected an hour ago http://typeaccord.co.uk/forum/topic/1383-hft

thread not relevant, but pics in post #10 in the thread might help to start at the top B)

I also saw a thread somewhere where someone had removed the centre modules, but no idea when/where/what it was
 
Here is the guide for removing the sat nav, I know you don't have the sat nav on the Type S, but should be the same.
http://typeaccord.co.uk/forum/topic/868-diy-removing-navi/

Note the other links it refers to (you have to remove the ash tray first)
 
Ive got the same issue on my type s. Hot air on passenger side but cold on drivers side. Raised it on here a few years ago but no one had any idea what the problem could be. gave up trying to get it repaired as no one had any idea what the issue was :-( Will be interesting to see if a solution can be found
 
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