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littlebo reflash Q&A

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ukcl9

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CL7 Euro R
littlebo reflash Q&A
Q.what does this reflash do
A.improve mpg
eliminates rev hang
eliminates dbw lag.dbw map 1:1
vtec from 4600 @ WOT
vtec window 4600-7600
gain upto 20-30 bhp mid rev range

Q.can you remap all k24 cl9/cm2
A.yes all k24 MT/AT Years 2003-2008

Q.How do i make an apointment to get my car reflashed
A.pm me through the forum.with car year,ecu serial number,transmisson type

Q.Can i send you my ecu in the post.when will i get it back
A.yes.send me your ecu monday.i reflash tuesday.you get back wenesday

Q.should i check my ecu serial before posting ecu
A.yes your ecu serial number must be
RBB-E02
RGB-E01

Q.what RON fuel should i use
A.mapped for RON 95..you can use 95,99.112(LPG)
map works best on RON 99

Q.can i use bolt on parts with this reflash?(intake,exhaust,header)
A.yes the more bolt on parts the more bhp you will gain.

Q.how much will my mpg improve
A.2+mpg.but will depend how heavy your right foot is

Q.will reflash affect my emmissions at mot time
A.no

Q.spark plugs have done 80k miles.should i replace them before reflash
A.yes

Q.im only interested in bhp.do you have any dyno graphs
A.yes here.i will add mine when i get chance to dyno mine
http://s1.directupload.net/images/131028/3iquebdt.jpg

Q.should i reflash my car if its not regularly serviced
A. no

Q.how many reflashes has littlebo done
A.over 200 world wide

Q.does littlebo have a website
A.yes here http://www.k24reflash.com/

Q.Will this reflash break my car.
A.NO.but it will show up any problems your car has already

Q.ukcl9 is this your reflash.
A.NO i only help install it to your ecu

Q.ukcl9 can i hold you responsible if a problem comes to light after the reflash
A.NO

Q.Do i have to sign a waiver
A.yes.its says
1.i am not responsible for any problems/damages that occures to your car after the reflash
2.you understand this is not my reflash.i only help install the reflash to your ecu.
i will pm you the waiver,so you can print and sign it.and send in the post with your ecu

Q.cost
A.£300

Q.how do i pay for the reflash
A.soon as ecu is reflashed,i will contact you.then you pay me by Paypal Gift.then i post your ecu back,the same day

Q.will you offer an ecu exchange service?
A.soon.i will offer to send you a reflashed ecu to use while you send me your ecu to reflash.
must be returned asap.and you pay the postage cost of me sending you the spare ecu.
NOTE.your immoliliser will not work.i recommand you take the ecu out of the car.when not in use

Q.Do you have any reviews of this reflash
A.yes here
http://typeaccord.co.uk/forum/topic/16726-littlebo-reflashremap/

Q.my cl9 feels like a fat lazy v6.making good torque from 3-5k rpm.then loses power until vtec.but vtec only lasts a few seconds.when i change up a gear.im out of vtec.with this reflash cure this.
A.O yes.now vtec comes in @ 4600 the car will keep making power upto 7500.with no power loss.when you change up.you will still be in vtec making power.the torque will be spread over the rev range.the k24 will become very rev happy.giving you a fun factor of 10

Dyno Results (Car has a drop in K&N Filter as only other modification):
7a462de12907.jpg


98a536f17922.jpg


Also, runs best on 99 Ron in my opinion.

Any questions ive missed just ask
Please keep it on topic
Thanks
 
Small update , i finished 2.0 map and tested few days ago, my test cars been 2 06 facelift AT cl7 with k20z2 , looking for MT cars now to build fw for them. This engine is completely different with k24 so all the gains are in a low and mid end rpms where you drive daily.

feedback conclusion - torque available earlier, car pulls at 1.5-2k like 2.5-3k stock, straight reaction on pedal with no dbw lag, improved mpg, faster shifts on AT in D and manual mode. overall feel is more solid, no need to rev that high for acceleration. tranny doesnt make downshifts at some places where it downshifted on stock map.

Ill fiish facelift dbw and gonna build fw for 03-05 cars then.
 
and one more , ecu partnumbers are E01-E05 for MT and E52-E57 for AT , all of em covered with appropriate firmwares.
 
If this is mapped for 95RON why do you say it runs best on 99RON?
Can the AT handle the increased torque over a period of time or is the gearbox more likely to fail?
What is dbw?
 
its a famous hype that car runs better \ more fuel efficient on high octane. This engine and this map been designed for good quality 95 and i dont thik you need to overpay for higher octane fuel. Only if you have unstable 95 quality , like for example we have or OZ guys , their fuel imported from SG and have a long way to arrive, petrol cant be stored for too long so guys prefer to run 98 there. If u need to see benefit from 98+ u need to raise your CR.

AT holds 400nm without any problems on boosted cars. dbw = drive by wire , electronic throttle body.
 
I see that there are 3 power curves

P-kola (power at wheels) which is the middle power curve
P-straty (power loss) which is the bottom curve
P-norm ....... I presume that this is the power out of the engine (and Mnorm, torque, the top curve, is calculated from this).

At least one of the curves must be measured, P-kola, on a rolling road.

But is one of the other curves also measured, and if so, how ?
 
Nope , torque is primary function of engine and then power calculated based on torque an rpms. Dyno SW use some coeff to calculate losses , diff dynos use diff coefficients. this Maha dyno use very aggressive coeff )) usually its aroud 10% for MT . top curve is torque , mid is crank , next is WHP and tranny loss is the bottom line.
 
littlebo said:
Nope , torque is primary function of engine and then power calculated based on torque an rpms. Dyno SW use some coeff to calculate losses , diff dynos use diff coefficients. this Maha dyno use very aggressive coeff )) usually its aroud 10% for MT . top curve is torque , mid is crank , next is WHP and tranny loss is the bottom line.
You're splitting hairs by telling me the rolling road measures torque and then power is calculated (I've worked on engine test beds at Rover in the 1980's).

OK, so let's go through it again.

The rolling road measures the torque at the wheels, which gives P-kola (power at the wheels).

P-straty (power lost between shaft and wheels) is estimated.

So P-norm is therefore also an estimate i.e. 225 BHP from engine is an estimation, it could be more, it could be less. All I can go on, is 175 at the wheels. A "before and after" at the wheels would be more useful.


edit: what would be great, if you could get it done, is a comparison of two ECU's, one with stock map, one with reflash map. Ideally on a CL9 with stock inlet and exhaust.

i.e. run a dyno plot of P-kola of one ECU: then swap the ECUs over, and run a dyno plot of P-kola again.
If possible, display the two curves on one graph. This way, the difference that the reflash gives would be visible.
 
i agree.back to back dyno would be good.my car isnt stock.if i get a spare ecu i can try this.but wont be any time soon
freddofrog.if your interested in the reflash.you could dyno your car first then me reflash it and you dyno again.then compare..you interested?

we know the stock cl9 is around 200 bhp.so 225 is still very good

all dyno's will read different so all dyno's will only give estimation
 
ukcl9 said:
i agree.back to back dyno would be good.my car isnt stock.if i get a spare ecu i can try this.but wont be any time soon
freddofrog.if your interested in the reflash.you could dyno your car first then me reflash it and you dyno again.then compare..you interested?

we know the stock cl9 is around 200 bhp.so 225 is still very good

all dyno's will read different so all dyno's will only give estimation
Sadly I don't have access to any sort of dyno these days, and I've no idea how much it costs.
I'd be potentially doing you guys a favour if I did as you suggest .....how about doing the reflash for free LOL

The main reason for doing a back-to-back comparison on the same dyno within an hour of the ECU swap over, is because the atmospheric conditions are unlikely to have changed.

What isn't shown on that graph are the parameters entered to estimate P-straty. I ***ume that there must be at least one parameter that is proportional to engine speed, which in effect simulates rolling resistance.

I have no idea how much the gearbox losses and CV losses are in proportion to road speed, but I estimate that the rolling resistance on an Accord is somewhere between 1 and 2 HP per 10 mph (depends on tyre type, tyre pressure, road surface). This has to be the greatest unknown on any rolling road dyno. For example, if two boy racers with Vauxhall Corsas go to a "dyno fair" to compare their engines, one of them might fit a K&N air filter, over-inflate his tyres up to say 50 psi, and then gloat to his mate that his K&N air filter was giving him 5 HP more than his mate's car on power at the wheels: but the extra 20 psi would account for several of those HP (depends on Corsa car weight and the selected gear or the rotational speed of the wheels).

There are so many variables, which is why IMO, the most prudent comparison is back-to-back using the same car in the same gear on the same dyno within an hour of the ECU swap (and tyre temperature, air-inlet temperature and engine-bay temperature would have to be reasonably close).

All I'm saying is, if graphs are to be used, then the variables must be understood.
 
i alread reflash a stock cl9.i will try and get a spare ecu.and get that cl9 on the dyno.for back to back runs.

dyno graphs are nice to have to see what bhp a car is making. but they dont mean much.as you say to many variables..your better off watching a video of stock cl9 and reflashed cl9 from a rolling start.

plus this reflash adds more than just bhp...this is what people dont realise.

every one seems hung up on bhp numbers...they dont care that you now get 3000 rpm of vtec.and the dbw lag has gone.etc etc

freddofrog do you find that your car pulls well upto 4800.then nothing happens until 6000.then your car pull really well to the limiter.but only lasts a few seconds?

any k24 owner who have driven a k20 will say the k24 has torque and feels like a lazy v6.but its not a lively engine like the k20..this reflash makes the k24 into a more powerful,lively k20..what more could you want.takes it from dull to fun

another variable is that some cl9 owner probably never rev there car to 7200..its just a nice car to drive from A to B
 
ukcl9 said:
i alread reflash a stock cl9.i will try and get a spare ecu.and get that cl9 on the dyno.for back to back runs.

dyno graphs are nice to have to see what bhp a car is making. but they dont mean much.as you say to many variables..your better off watching a video of stock cl9 and reflashed cl9 from a rolling start.

plus this reflash adds more than just bhp...this is what people dont realise.

every one seems hung up on bhp numbers...they dont care that you now get 3000 rpm of vtec.and the dbw lag has gone.etc etc

freddofrog do you find that your car pulls well upto 4800.then nothing happens until 6000.then your car pull really well to the limiter.but only lasts a few seconds?

any k24 owner who have driven a k20 will say the k24 has torque and feels like a lazy v6.but its not a lively engine like the k20..this reflash makes the k24 into a more powerful,lively k20..what more could you want.takes it from dull to fun

another variable is that some cl9 owner probably never rev there car to 7200..its just a nice car to drive from A to B
I bought my Accord in January 2006, I've had it ever since. I thrash the living daylights out of that K24, and yes it is like a lazy V6. If there is no traffic about then the right pedal is a switch LOL: flat-ish torque with no pickup at the top end. If you hold the car in 2nd gear and slowly move the revs up to 6000, there is a sudden dip when the VTEC gets engaged. But I wouldn't say that I notice too much dip if I put the pedal right down at 3000, but it does leave one thinking "what is this VTEC deal in this engine".

I think that a plot (power at wheels) on the same graph of a back-to-back comparison should give the story. Similarly for torque at wheels. Wheel rpm at max engine speed would also be useful. With that info it should be possible to give a paper estimate of the 0-60mph and 0-100mph (I could do that from the graphs). As for actual engine torque/power who cares, it's torque/power at the wheels that counts.


edit: btw I've seen that (russian?) video of the cl9's, but again, is everything else the same: fuel, tyre type, tyre pressures, suspension, intake, exhaust. If not, then it's not a straight comparison of the reflash.

edit2: if anyone wants to know, there is a straightforward way to compare 30 psi rolling resistance with say 40 psi rolling resistance. I found it in an old book, not done it yet.
 
if you thrash the k24.like me.this reflash is for you..the dip in power will be gone.at 4600 when vtec engages the car will just pick up and go.with no power loss to 7500..who wouldnt want that..the k24 is a slug stock.very disapointing.vtec only last a few seconds.you then change up and you drop out of vtec.waiting for the revs to climb again..reflash fixes all these problems.

have you driven a k20?

if you didnt live so far away i would let you drive mine to see the improvement.you would buy the reflash there and then

before the reflash the pedal is a switch.its on.or off..no real inbetween

i also have 1-5 shorter gears,so this reflash has inproved my car no end..most important.its tons of fun
 
engine behaviour isnt just a bhp, its a 3d character and it cant be represented with flat dry number and flat graph. period. this brew is really subjective and eliminates such a stock tune flaws that you can feel only with your butt dyno. so my advice is to try it on the road rather then burning your money on dyno. you can always jump back on stock with full refund. still has no any1 whos asked me for this though ))

all those speculations around tranny losses % is really annoying and i dont give a penny if its 10% or 20% , just take a look at delta of 2 runs and youll see the gain. if some1 wanna make a side by side testing with 2 ECUs - welcome , i will disable immo and you can try and feed your curiosity but im not interested to see one more paper ive seen lots of times already, so at your own cost guys, no free flashes.

to ad reflash i always rely on pleased customersand their subjective feedbacks that all guys can understand rather than on papers 90% of ppl cant even read correctly, its long and hard way with tons of diesel and other sceptics spoiling the thread but its fair way.
 
ukcl9 said:
if you thrash the k24.like me.this reflash is for you..the dip in power will be gone.at 4600 when vtec engages the car will just pick up and go.with no power loss to 7500..who wouldnt want that..the k24 is a slug stock.very disapointing.vtec only last a few seconds.you then change up and you drop out of vtec.waiting for the revs to climb again..reflash fixes all these problems.

have you driven a k20?

if you didnt live so far away i would let you drive mine to see the improvement.you would buy the reflash there and then

before the reflash the pedal is a switch.its on.or off..no real inbetween

Never driven a K20, nearly bought a Subaru Legacy in 2006, but decided on the superior value-for-money in the Accord (less servicing too).

How far are you from Leicestershire ? (though I notice you also have a Civic gearbox so not sure if it's a fair comparison)

btw it is possible to get the VTEC to engage sooner by making a very simple electronic circuit, discussed it in this forum about a year ago, but never got round to it.
 
im north devon...it would give you an idea..

go to your local garage with an ep3 forsale and joy ride it.and come back....you will be very unhappy with the k24

making vtec engage sooner and not adding fuel,timeing,etc etc.will kill your k24..there is a lot more to a remap than just making vtec come in sooner
 
littlebo said:
engine behaviour isnt just a bhp, its a 3d character and it cant be represented with flat dry number and flat graph. period. this brew is really subjective and eliminates such a stock tune flaws that you can feel only with your butt dyno. so my advice is to try it on the road rather then burning your money on dyno. you can always jump back on stock with full refund. still has no any1 whos asked me for this though ))

all those speculations around tranny losses % is really annoying and i dont give a penny if its 10% or 20% , just take a look at delta of 2 runs and youll see the gain. if some1 wanna make a side by side testing with 2 ECUs - welcome , i will disable immo and you can try and feed your curiosity but im not interested to see one more paper ive seen lots of times already, so at your own cost guys, no free flashes.

to ad reflash i always rely on pleased customersand their subjective feedbacks that all guys can understand rather than on papers 90% of ppl cant even read correctly, its long and hard way with tons of diesel and other sceptics spoiling the thread but its fair way.
"this brew is really subjective" ....subjective is the issue though, like "placebo" effect. After spending £300, no-one's brain is going to say "hmmm a tad better, but no idea how much". Either: stop-watch on same flat road in same atmospheric conditions, or back-to-back if dyno graphs are going to be used as evidence.

"just take a look at delta of 2 runs and youll see the gain" ....I've seen the video, but it leaves me with a lot of questions

"my advice is to try it on the road rather then burning your money on dyno" ....well you guys put up the dyno plots LOL
 
ukcl9 said:
im north devon...it would give you an idea..

making vtec engage sooner and not adding fuel,timeing,etc etc.will kill your k24..there is a lot more to a remap than just making vtec come in sooner

I have friends in Cornwall, might be able to make it down that way in the summer, maybe when Steve is thinking of going. My CM2 is 100%stock, Steve has a CAI, a non-OEM exhaust, and lowered suspension btw.

Glad I never got round to trying that electronic circuit :)
 
littlebo said:
...to ad reflash i always rely on pleased customersand their subjective feedbacks that all guys can understand rather than on papers 90% of ppl cant even read correctly, its long and hard way with tons of diesel and other sceptics spoiling the thread but its fair way.
The problem with the subjective evidence you want your customers to rely upon is that it leads to things like homeopathy being considered to be effective.

Threads like this would become terribly unbalanced without sceptics... even if those sceptics do own diesels. But I'm also cursed with being an experienced engineer and would therefore encourage those who may be interested to rely upon proper objective evidence of improvements, rather than the 'smoke and mirrors' stuff I'm seeing in this thread.
 
ukcl9 said:
agree.but if littlebo has offered a FULL refund if your not 100% happy what more can you want?
plus lots of happy customers.and 2 of them in the uk
Before and after dyno plots conducted under proper conditions.
 
same story i see everywhere, same questions , same doubts . few guys from germany even said - we like it but gonna wait and see if any engine will fall apart in 3 months lol )) then we gonna flash ours. they all flashed and happy now. im gonna wait too till biggest sceptics \ reputable persons here will try and post their real opinion, once we have a happy sceptic - no more doubts, once he is happy during 3 months - no more questions asked, its the best strategy , always worked fine for all countries. this reflash is based on hondata theory they used to make their tune and as far as you all can see they have no any unhappy customers. me too.
as for placebo, noone will err in my favour for the money he paid for it LOL ! you have car for years, know it like your 5 fingers, youll definately feel the difference and improvements immediately. right with a first pull you make, every first gear shift you do. no any bullshit like wait few days while car relearns then youll feel it and so on like obd power boxes sellers always says. my best advice is to try 2 cars on the road , stock vs stock and then same cars stock vs flashed, this will be very good to understand how and where it works.
i think it will be good to have spare flashed ECU for try and buy, leave deposit, pay postage and try, like it - ship your own ECU while you driving spare one, car keeps on the road, hassle free from all sides.
 
If someone have dyno dynamics dyno... its the only 1 dyno i agree to pay for, has perfect graph with all nuances shown , not oversmoothed like others. Heres b4 and after dyno , same car . To compensate temp and atm pressure dyno use special coefficient, so its representative. you can look here http://s1.directupload.net/images/131028/3iquebdt.jpg
 
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