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Replacing injector seal, can I DIY it?

hornyhonda

hornyhonda

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Location
Oxford UK
Car
Accord CDTi
Ok so I have the dreaded black death on the accord. Seems like its been this way a while. I bought this car as a starter family car so am a bit concerned about the fumes in the cabin more than the loss in mpg or emmissions. I was told by a guy at the motor factors that its fine and to just leave it be but I wouldnt mind having a bash at sorting it out although I read some horror stories about injectors breaking inside the cylinder head. I was also told to pour a can of coke over the injector and leave it overnight to eat away at the black death. Im quite handy with a set of spanners and have performed engine swaps and turbo conversions on hondas in the past but have never worked in a diesel. Should I just get the seal from honda and set aside a weekend to do this? If the injector doesnt come out first time should I just pour on more coke and leave again, using time to get the job done rather than brute force? It would be nice to hear from someone who has had a go at doing this. I cant see it being rocket science but I obviously dont want to cause a hefty repair bill.

Any pointers would be grealty appreciated
 
In post#7 of this thread I describe how I removed all 4 of my injectors without too much trouble... http://typeaccord.co.uk/forum/topic/17379-diesel-injector-removal/ BUT I was lucky that none of my injectors had been previously leaking and were therefore not horribly stuck in under a small mountain of carbon and goo.

You may be lucky, or you may need specialist equipment (like a slide hammer or hydraulic puller with the correct fitting to mount onto your injector body). It is easy to damage either the injector and/or the cam cover.

Refitting must be done with care, or the injector seal will fail again. In another thread I describe how I prepared and inspected the mounting surfaces and then refitted the injectors.
 
I just wondered do I need any special tools for removing the injector? Also do I need to be aware of any safety aspect of working around the injectors? I keep reading stuff about diesels being higher pressure than petrol.
 
The thread I linked to earlier mentions the tools I used to remove the injectors (nothing particularly unusual). But if yours has been leaking for a while then you may need a slide hammer or a hydraulic puller (it was terrible advice to ignore it, btw). In the thread where I describe refitting my injectors, I detail how I cleaned up the mating surface in the head using improvised tools (common things like a petrol-soaked rag and greased wire wool taped to a small socket set). But again, because yours has been leaking you may need to have the seats recut?

Do buy the replacement gasket from Honda, cheaper eBay ones can be a non-standard thickness and therefore fail.

This diesel system works at up to 1600 bar, so plenty of pressure to do you some serious harm... do not undo any high pressure joints with the engine running (and I'd also leave a couple of minutes after turning off).
 
Thanks Jon. It seems the torx bolt head is filled up with carbon so i'll need to do a bit of picking away at it before removing the injector. Im going to pick away at it with a nail and add some acetone and transmission fluid mixture which is like a heavy duty plusgas. Its not a job im going to rush into as I have a child on the way and cant be without this car. Once its born in just over a month then I wont need the car everyday for a while. One thing I do notice is I need to prime the fuel pump a couple of times in order to get a nice clean start so I reckon the drop in fuel pressure is affecting its start up, which is probably down to the leaky injector.
 
Oh I see. So quite possibly the battery could be on its way out or its just the usual problem of starting engines in the cold. Its the first diesel ive owned and I hear they take alot more power to start up.

By the way I did switch on the recirculate button and always drive now with the window slightly ajar.

Apart from the fumes in the cabin would the leaky injector just affect the mpg? What is the worst that can happen?

Cheers
 
Yes, the leaky injector gasket WILL affect performance and economy... one cylinder is losing compression, which will also cause the engine to be a little unbalanced. The leak will get worse over time, making the overall running issues worse and also making it more likely that the injector mounting seat in the cylinder head will require re-cutting. Despite what you've been told, this repair should be undertaken without too much delay. And these fumes will not be kind to young lungs!

Diesel engines DO take more battery power when starting, so they are fitted with larger batteries to compensate for this. I find mine starts pretty much on-the-button, even at sub-zero temperatures. The leakage from one of your cylinders won't be helping the engine to start...
 
That all makes sense. Cheers for the reply Jon. If the recirulate button is on will it block the air coming in through the pollen filter? Im starting to wish id left the dirty pollen filter in now rather than replacing it.
 
I'm confused by your question. Why would recirculated air need to go through the pollen filter again? And why do you wish you'd left the dirty filter in?
 
Sorry for the late reply Jon. What I meant was I swapped out the pollen filter before I discovered the injector was leaking. So with having a new pollen filter fumes are now coming into the cabin more freely than if I left the old filter in place. I have been using the recirculate button for now though. I want to swap the injector seal but the carbon seems to build up quicker than I can get rid of it. The torx bolt head that I need to undo is filled with carbon also.
 
Im still a bit confused about the process of removing the injector. There are the two black tubes at 3 o clock and 9 o clock going into the injector. Then the aluminium connection, which im guessing is the high pressured connection? Then the electrical connector which goes to the injector. The ones I am worried about undoing are the aluminium connector and the two black hoses, are these under high pressure even without the engine running?

I just want to test how stuck the injector is. The connections ive mentioned, are these the only ones that need removing? Other than the torx head bolt?

Thanks
 
Hi Nick. Yes, there are 2 black pipes at the top of the injector for returning fuel used for internal injector lubrication back to the fuel tank (there are 2 because the injectors are 'daisy-chained', but injector #1 is the first in the chain so only has 1). I remember that a bent wire clip has to be slid off and then the connection pulls off with the pipes. And that metal connection is the high pressure feed to the injector.

The black pipes are low pressure, but the metal one is the one to be careful with... as said, you need to leave it a short time after turning off the engine to allow the pressure to dissipate after turning off the engine, but then undo the connection with a little caution just to be safe. The fuel system does not remain pressurised indefinitely, as the pressure relieves itself via the injector lubrication paths and so leaks back to the fuel tank.

I think it's easier to remove the short metal high-pressure injector feed pipe completely, e.g. undo the end on the fuel as well as the end on the injector and then remove the pipe and place somewhere safe. This will give more room to withdraw the injector and also avoid damaging the pipe.

The only other thing to remove is the electrical connector.
 
Thanks Jon. Just a few more questions before I get going with this...

Is there any advantage to heating up the engine? and...
From pictures I notice the injectors dont appear to have thread on the tips, is this correct? So I should just be able to pull them out by hand if they are loose? My main fear is breaking the injector but do you think I can undo all the pipework and give it a jiggle by hand to see if its loose or carboned up? Then I can make a decision whether to goto a garage or diesel specialist.

Is the tip also the part that breaks off usually?

Cheers for your help
 
Most advice I received did suggest warming up the engine first.

No threads on the injector tips... they simply slide in/out of the head.

The injector probably won't be 'loose'... it will be stuck in to some degree. As you probably saw in my other thread, I carefully loosened the clamp with the engine running to allow the compression to push past the injector seal to make it come free.

I'm not sure which part usually breaks!

If this injector has been leaking for some time, then it may be tough to remove? But good luck!
 
I managed to scrape off a load of the carbon tonight to reveal the tork bolt head and the sides of the clamp. Ive put some more coke on it using a pipette (maybe 10ml max) and will continue some more scraping tomorrow. Also I gaffa taped a mcdonalds straw to the vaccum cleaner and am hoping that will be of use tomorrow.

Do the torx bolts often break? I have a good set of torx adaptors that fit in to the bolt head nicely but when I put the adaptor for the ratchet on it leans over a little and doesnt make a nice square fit. If theres no weak point with the bolt i'll just crack on and undo it.

Also just to note it is the far right injector nearest the air filter box and battery.
 
I had exactly the same problem with the torx bits not quite fitting squarely, which meant I had to use 1/4" drive ones instead of my much stronger 3/8" drive, resulting in me breaking two bits before getting the clamp bolts all undone (but remember that I was doing all four). Those bolts were very tight on my car, but suffered no damage while being undone.
 
Brilliant thanks for confirming that. I reckon it will fix square enough to undo it but just wanted to be sure. Once ive undone them do I just work the clamp loose by a couple of mm then turn the engine on and give it a rev to loosen the injector? Do you think id get away with leaving the engine running for 20mins to warm up.
 
I managed to get the injector out with not too much hassle. Time and heat was the key. If I get a moment i'll write up a how to guide with pics....
Basically chip away at the carbon (small screwdriver and small hammer) then vacuum it up using a straw attached to the vacuum. Once the majority of the carbon is gone then warm up the engine on idle (this took about 20 mins for me). I then undid the torx head bolt a little and started the engine without revving it. I switched off the engine then undid the bolt about half a turn more then restarted the engine.
This time there was a change in engine note and exhaust gasses were coming up through where the injector was. Stop the engine then wait a few mins for the fuel pressure to drop before undoing the fuel lines to the injector. Using pipe pliers wriggle it side to side to loosen it. Remove it. Vaccum up as much stuff as poss from the port/well. Put on new washer and reinstall the reverse of removal. Its also worth noting I put a splash of aldi (full fat) coke on the injector everynight for a week or so prior to doing the job. As long as the ingredients say phosphoric acid then its fine.

I hope the above helps someone in a similar situation.
 
I don't know if I will ever do this for my accord I the future, but many thanks for sharing your method and experience man.
 
No problem. I dont think there is a need for slide hammers or injector pullers if you spend sometime chipping away the carbon build up. I chipped then vacuumed the chips, then repeated about 10 or so times until the injector was visible like the other injectors. After that heat is the key as the carbon goes into a mouldable gum. Mine had alot of carbon there to begin with but was almost spotless by the time I went to take the injector out.
 
I cleaned it with a rag and a screwdriver and a blast of plusgas. In theory I dont see why a valve seat grinding tool wouldnt work or something similar if they are not the correct size and of course some grinding paste. Prehaps just a piece of wooden dowel and grinding paste or toothpaste if you were on a real tight budget :)

If the seal happens to go again then the above is what id try before taking it into a garage.
 
Yesterday this coil type logo came up on the dash and the car went into limp mode. I just restarted the car and it went away. Last evening I squeezed the bleed ball and disconnected the battery for a few mins and hooked up the HDS to look for any codes. I didnt see any relevant codes so my guess is after a bit of reading that it was air in the fuel lines which has since vanished. It went into limp mode at the most annoying of times though, i'd just overtaken a lorry where the road went from 2 lanes into 1. I'd just pulled in front of him and it lost all power so it would of seemed to the driver like I was being akward. Limp mode pretty much limited me to 40 but if I was in fifth gear I could get 60 out of it (it was like driving a diesel without the turbo, it wouldnt go over 2k rpm). Luckily the road turned from 60 to 40 and then I turned off down a quiet country lane to restart the car.

Apart from the aircon not working this is turning out to be a great car. Im presuming the last fella slung it on ebay due to the injector leak, the abs leak or the knocking noise from the knackered ball joint.

Injector washer was £4.26
Upper wishbones were £30ish each from eurocarparts
Drop link was £13 from eurocarparts
ABS sensor was £17 from ebay

Last thing to do now is the honda fuel filter swap for which theyve quoted me £42. I still wonder whether I can get the bosch part from a motor factors cheaper. Theres no harm in me calling and asking.
 
No mate... Do not use a copy filter.. Its been tried and tested FAR too many times.

We are not being honda *****s when we say stick to OEM fuel filter... Non genuin filters cause nothing but problems
 
Yeah I understand. Ive read the same bad stuff about them but I also heard the honda part is a bosch part and if you can get that from a motor factors then its all the same just a few quid cheaper. Can anyone confirm this is the case?
 
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