Oil level rising?

I did an oil change about 3 weeks ago and everything was all fine. I checked the oil level yesterday and it seems to be about half a centimeter above the max. Im unsure whether I overfilled it (if anything im pretty sure I underfilled it) or maybe the oil level is rising. I know some mazdas have a problem with the diesel particle filter (dpf) on their cars. Does the accord diesel have the same issue? If not the new oil level could be due to me pouring coke around the leaky injector or just the leaky injector itself possibly leaking diesel into the engine and into the sump prehaps?I

m hoping someone will just tell me ive overfilled it and that there are no issues with this engine having oil level rising issues.

Thanks

If it keeps rising then yes you have fuel and oil mixing.. Not a good situation!

Did you change the oil filter when you did the oil change?

If you didnt. I bet it is oil from the filter that wasnt measured when you put new oil in

Agree, if the filter is not touched it holds a drop or two, that's why if you are draining from the sump plug do not remove the "catcher" until you have renewed the filter if you do the residue in the filter housing will run all over your lovely clean carpets. LOL


As stated if the level keeps rising then there is something amiss, could be water or diesel getting into the sump. Check oil filler cap for mayonaise.

Mine does this, no idea why, so now I fill it to about 3/4 of max when I do the oil change.

A few days later it's up to the max mark and after that it stays there.

Weird.

Are you checking it with a cold engine (not started up), as I find whenever mine gets serviced it's always as yours with half a centimetre above the max' but run the engine up to operating temp' then switch off leave for a couple of mins then it's sitting on the max' line
Cheers Pete

Thanks for the replies. Yes I changed the oil filter, i'd never do an oil change without changing it. I did however check it on a hot engine so this could have made the difference. I would check it now but it is warm so prehaps in a couple of hours i'll check it again.

My guess is its the warm engine giving me a faulty reading or the injector leak getting diesel into the sump. The oil did not look marble ish to show it had mixed with anything else. I'll check the oil fill cap to be sure also and report back.

Also check the car is on level ground as this can give a huge false reading even with a slight hill.
If so park the opposite way to see if it goes down

hornyhonda said:

Thanks for the replies. Yes I changed the oil filter, i'd never do an oil change without changing it. I did however check it on a hot engine so this could have made the difference. I would check it now but it is warm so prehaps in a couple of hours i'll check it again.

My guess is its the warm engine giving me a faulty reading or the injector leak getting diesel into the sump. The oil did not look marble ish to show it had mixed with anything else. I'll check the oil fill cap to be sure also and report back.

Click to expand...

There is absolutely no way that your leaking injector seal could cause fuel to be getting into the sump.

This is most likely due to thermal expansion. My diesel does the same and has done so for 8 years. I always fill 3/4 and this rises to just under full.

Check it when it's stone cold and it will be lower

Yup I reckon thermal expansion too - some cars even have a hot and cold high level mark on the dip stick just for this reason.

Could also be because it takes a little while for all the oil to travel down the galleries as you fill up - if you were to fill up to the max mark without a long break between each pour I'd say it's a reasonable ***umption that there may have been some oil in the cylinder head still finding its way to the sump.

Thanks for the replies guys but it was a false alarm. It seemed when the engine cooled it went back to reading a smidge below the max which im happy about

Having a similar issue with mine - had a service a week ago and checked the oil level this weekend. I was alarmed to see it as far over the top mark as the top mark is from the bottom mark!
That was on my drive way that has a very slight slope. It was a cold engine, it hadnt been ran that day.
I took the car to the garage this morning to ask them if theyve over filled it. That was a 5 minute drive. When the mechanic checked my dip stick the oil was down to the max mark.
He said maybe its due to the fuel being dumped into the sump by the DPF...

Any best process of checking? cold engine? warm engine? (I'll check again on a very flat ground too)

A cold check is pretty good but has to be on flat ground.
Dpf regen failure can cause oil level to go up so be mindful of that. You have to ensure that you give the car enough time to complete its regen process. Detecting when it's started is hard to determine though

Thanks Honda Guy.

I forgot to say after Id come back from the garage and parked up for a while the levels were back up over the max mark like before again.
My drive way has a very slight slope and I've never seen an increase like this before when I've checked the levels.

Sounds like I need to get reading up on DPF things. No idea about it or the regen process etc at the moment.

Am i right to think that the 7th Gen pre facelift accord doesnt havent a DPF?

Yes, no dpf on 03-05 7gen

^ wot he said

it's odd that a mechanic thinks the car has a DPF when it should be obvious that it does not

:wacko: :wacko: :wacko: oh dear! is it that obvious to the average mechanic?
Also, would the reduction in oil on the dip stick that I saw when he checked it after a 5 min drive be due to the engine using it? in other words he's over filled it...

Probably the biggest giveaway is that your car is a 2005 diesel, and AFAIK in 2005 most (if not all) diesel cars in the UK did not have an "active" DPF (although at that time the CAT on the diesel was said to reduce particulate emissions, see below about N22A converter).

The next giveaway is a bit more specific to the Honda diesel. The N22A (in the 7th gen) has the exhaust manifold on the back of the engine, whereas the N22B (in the 8th gen) has the exhaust manifold on the front of the engine. N22A does not have an "active" DPF system, N22B does have an "active" DPF.

But even if one ignores all the above, there are no control systems or sensors on the N22A for an "active" DPF.

If you look at the equivalent parts you can see what I mean.

Exhaust for N22A
http://www.lingshondaparts.com/honda_car_parts_selection?block_01=17SEA01&block_02=B__0202&block_03=3063&block_05=hcr

Exhaust for N22B
http://www.lingshondaparts.com/honda_car_parts_selection?block_01=17TL1A01&block_02=B__0202&block_03=3568&block_05=hcr

Both diagrams show a connection to diagram E-34-20 (which is labelled "converter")

"converter" for N22A
http://www.lingshondaparts.com/honda_car_parts_selection?block_01=17SEA01&block_02=E__3420&block_03=3063&block_05=hcr

Converter for N22B
http://www.lingshondaparts.com/honda_car_parts_selection?block_01=17TL1A01&block_02=E__3420&block_03=3568&block_05=hcr


The converter system on the N22A is 2-stage, a pre-converter and then the CAT itself. This is typical of early diesel CAT systems, which do reduce some of the particulate emissions. But it is not an "active" DPF system.

The converter on the N22B is an "active" DPF . By "active" I mean that it stops particulates to such an extent that there are sensors for the engine ECU to decide when to initiate a "burn" process to get rid of some of the particulates in the converter. It's pretty obvious that the N22B has many sensors and connections, which gives it away as an "active" DPF system.

In his defence, he may be confused between the two types of "converter" on a diesel. But the pre-converter and CAT system on the N22A is passive and never gets extra fuel to "burn" excess particulates from the system.


Anyway, the best way to check oil level, is on absolutely flat ground (not tilted in any direction) and with the engine cold. Reason for the latter is that most of the oil has then drained into the sump, and the dipstick basically measures the amount of oil in the sump. Also, always wipe the dipstick and put it back in then pull it out to look. I do this a couple of times.


final edit:
Note that the thermal expansion of oil from 20C to 80C = 4%
(so I'm not convinced by the 'thermal expansion' explanation)

freddofrog said:

^ wot he said

it's odd that a mechanic thinks the car has a DPF when it should be obvious that it does not

Click to expand...

Clueless comes to my mind autodata or tolerance would have given that information as well as esm

Sent from my C6603 using Tapatalk

^ crikey if indie car mechanics had time to frig about with stuff like that they wouldn't get any work done, and also, only specialist mechanics have access to an ESM.

They basically rely on hands-on experience, and sometimes what they say needs some deeper questioning or interpretation. Same thing goes for GP's.

btw I'm loving the Channel 4 "Alternative Election", some very good humour

The garage did say theyd do a full diagnostics on the car as part of the service. Not sure if that would indicate the car having a DPF or not...

If not Im guessing like you say its then down to hands on experience and whether he can really be bothered to follow it up...he also said it would take serious amounts of excess oil in the car to be harmful. I'll get the car on a completely flat surface and check again.

Thanks for all your help

Without any trouble codes relating to an issue on DPF controls, using an OBD2 DTC reader won't provide evidence as to whether the engine has an "active" (or burn) system.

I suspect a misunderstanding of the term "DPF". I have heard people tell me before that their "early noughties" diesel engine had a "DPF" e.g. one person said that their 2007 2.5 TDI (R5) had a "DPF" so I googled to find it was similar setup as N22A (which doesn't surprise me, as most of the technology on diesel car engines utilises German ancillaries, including Honda's N22A and N22B).

freddofrog said:

^ crikey if indie car mechanics had time to frig about with stuff like that they wouldn't get any work done, and also, only specialist mechanics have access to an ESM.

They basically rely on hands-on experience, and sometimes what they say needs some deeper questioning or interpretation. Same thing goes for GP's.

btw I'm loving the Channel 4 "Alternative Election", some very good humour

Click to expand...

I know garages that use autodata on a regular basis, I would expect them to check for issues using software however I agree most garages don't bother and don't have such equipment at their disposal.

Sent from my C6603 using Tapatalk

I would expect them to at least look into whether the car has an active DPF or not before they state its 99% the reason for the sump showing too much oil

I've had the car parked on a very flat ground for a couple of hours today after running it an hour...***uming that is long enough for all the oil to return to the sump the level on the dipstick is showing the same level of oil as before. Well over the top mark..almost as far over the top mark as the distance from the lower mark to the top mark.

Would it be best to drain some out?

I would say "yes"

I'm not sure where the drain-plug is on the iCDTi but don't remove it completely just undo it a smidge , let a bit out, tighten it and then check the dipstick, etc, etc.

Thanks a lot freddofrog

Thats going to be done tomorrow. Its making me feel uncomfortable driving it around with that much excess oil in...as I'm not sure what damage might be being done while I'm driving it. The work horse cant afford to be off duty

I read somewhere, possibly in the ESM (Electronic Service Manual) that overfilling can damage the engine.

I used to use a washing-up bowl under the drain-plug (got something different now). When the drain-plug is not fully removed, the trickle that comes out may be difficult to "catch" if the distance is large.

When you're satisfied that you've drained enough out, measure how much there is. If it's out on the dipstick by the difference you've noticed, I reckon it could be at least half a litre.

Also have a look at the oil filter to see if that was changed.

It would have to be very over-filled to cause concern. A few mm over maximum when parked on flat ground is meaningless. You will not be able to tell if the filter cartridge has been replaced.

Disturbing that the garage came out with misleading nonsense to cover their mistake in over-filling your oil (whether deliberate or through ignorance).