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Want to buy F20B6 engine for rebuild

stuartb

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Location
Dagenham
Car
2001 Accord Vtec 2.0
I'm looking to buy a replacement F20B6 to take my time over rebuilding properly

anyone got anything for sale, or know anyone that has? somewhere near London would be preferable

if anyone has any relevant advise re: what internals are impossible to get hold of, or where a little more money makes a lot of difference etc please feel free to chip in, I'm all ears

if you just want to tell me it's a crap engine and I want to put a 6ltr quad turbo in the back or something keep it to yourself lol

thanks
 
It's a **** engine and you want to put a 6ltr quad turbo in the back.
 
Youll always get one saying something daft but if it was a **** engine im pritty sure not one person would own one, ive had a 1.8 hatch for the past two years great engine under powered but one thing ive found with honda is there engines are well made, im looking for a 2.0 next saloon
 
The F20B6 is the best 2.0 4 pot N/A engine from its era, bombproof reliability, economical (for its period), lively, revvy, brisk and lots of charcter. Go try out all the similar engines from the likes of Ford, Vauxhall, even BMW, Merc etc, I would even say its better than a lot of similar specengines from newer cars.
 
That's good then lol don't worry I wasn't calling it **** myself .. just warding off those that will just go on about how I should get a dohc in there

I've had a 2.5 6 banger from bm before it was alright but I think the main let down there was the sheer weight of the car where the accord feels much nimbler round corners

Anyone here done a rebuild on these able to offer one or two main things to look out for

I've priced one up at about 300, with box, seems reasonable but now I've found I have a leaky steering rack as well..

And then I found a younger 1.8 but otherwise same as mine I'm gonna look at tomorrow. Mine has leather interior but can always swap that easy enough

I heard the 1.8s go a bit better anyway, any truth in that? Not sure if they meant more power or just revs better or whatever
 
Also to bear in mind mines done 120k, this 1.8 only done 56k
 
Yeh those big engine bimmers can be very nose heavy, even though they are RWD the bias is something like 55-45 to rear.

Never done a rebuild so cant advise, but between the 1.8 and 2.0 there isnt a huge lot of difference, the 2.0 is a bit more powerful and has more tourque, the 1.8 just goes into VTEC earlier 4k as opposed to 4.5k, I would stick with the 2.0.
 
Mr Honda, I wish I had the readies for it, I really do..

interesting to note that seller is looking to get into a bit of vauxhall power instead lol that age old argument, Vtec or Redtop

honestly? red top please. but mainly because of the awesome noise it makes (my mate has one in his mini, it's just ridiculous lol)

saying that my previous was a vectra, the engine in which melted when the water pump jammed and stripped the belt. so swings and roundabouts I suppose

Im going to look at the 1.8 tonight, mainly because the mileage is almost too good to be true for £500

wondering however if the 1.8's steering rack is the same? if so there's a source of that part. the wheels are nicer, so they can go over as well.. what about the exhaust? cos the one in my 2ltr is shagged.. wondering if that's near enough the same to use..

also its a 'sport' model (unless someone has just stuck a 'sport' badge on the back.. it has a spoiler though) so maybe the springs are a bit tighter (mine are shagged anyway) and lower.. that might be worth the change over as well

must be a bunch of parts that make the £500 worthwhile, even if i only use as a donor
 
i wonder if it's worth doing something like using the 1.8 as the mileage is better, but putting on the head from my 2.0 because the cam is larier? get a bit of extra power at least

any parts like that interchangeable, or not worth going down that route?
 
That ATR is going to be abused like a lot of them. Anyone who puts cheap *** ebay red hoses to make the engine bay look "racier" always raises question marks for me.

For the donor car the steering should be same, you will need that exhaust if using 1.8, because it might be different to 2.0, the sport suspension IIRC had sports shock on them, nothing else is different.

Not sure on a frankenstein build, you most likely won't get anything from it.
 
what is ATR, Ive seen that before and wondered.. presume you are referring to the pistonheads link? out of my budget anyway, but did wonder if it'd be worth that much.

they do have a nice bit of trim, bumpers etc, with those slightly different headlights and all that.. might have to pay a breakers a visit and tart mine up a bit

cheers for ***istance, all greatly appreciated
 
ATR = Accord Type-R :)
 
haha no way can't believe I didn't think of that :) cheers
 
The Accord Type R isn't just a tarted up Accord, its one of the best FWD performance cars ever and comes with the H22 engine, its a lot more than just some spoilers and wheels. They are becoming hard to find these days and will appreciate once numbers dry up.
 
I don't think they'll ever command a great deal of money as the market is so niche.
 
Dunno, I think they will go up in value in say 10 years time, used to see old honda's, stuff like CRX's go for peanuts in the past, now a decent example is like 4k, old bog standard Honda's can go for 2k, so something like a Accord Type R will surely go up in price, especially as its something we will never get again. I reckon they will be worth around 4k for a good example in 2025.
 
I don't mean to thread hijack, but I suppose it's relevant.

The reason I don't see the ATR increasing in value is because I don't think many people will want them. If you want a bit of VTEC thrill you will go after the likes of a CRX, EP3, EK9 etc etc as they give a more agile and spirited drive. Otherwise you would usually head to Subaru or Mitsubishi for a performance saloon as both outclass Honda's offering.

I think ATR's have hit their lowest price now. Some are going for less than a grand, but a late one in good condition will set you back £2.5K. I just don't see them going any higher in standard form, nor dropping any further come to that. You see the occasional chancer asking £4K for them on evilbay, but they are just that, a chancer.
 
I think the biggest contributor to the market value is the fact that most of the ones being sold are very long in the tooth in terms of mileage these days and of questionable history... they are a 13-17 year old car now don't forget, the majority are in to 6 figure mileages and probably at the point where they aren't maintained as well as a performance car should be. You don't see low mileage examples changing hands because they either don't exist or people are clinging on to the good ones - I'd chance the latter. Once all the ropey ones which are holding the market price down dry up/die out, I imagine some nicer ones will start coming out the wood work and increasing the values a bit. I've seen at least 2 people get burned by £1500 ATR's which have not long after purchase suffered bottom end failures...

I guess we can do a bit of a practical experiment on the subject, as I have a 61k miles, clean '01 Accord Euro R on its way to me from Japan... Time will tell what a good condition performance Accord can fetch!!




Pottermus said:
...but a late one in good condition will set you back £2.5K.
A cursory glance at the usual places (eBay, Pistonheads, Autotrader...) would suggest that there are no good ones about at the minute. I saw two, both sub-average at best, one for 1200 and one for 1900. 140k and 130k respectively iirc.

'Good condition' is subjective, but to me it would constitute no marks of note on the body work and mileage under 70k. Clean interior with no wear to bolsters/steering wheel and so-forth. I'd say you'd be looking at over 3k for an ATR in that condition - it'd have to find the right buyer, but good condition cars are normally sought by enthusiasts who are likely to pay a bit more to obtain a car that meets their standards.
 
My f20 powered accord se had 300k on the clocks when it died from timing belt failure. :( now have a 2002 ATR and its brilliant :wub:
 
Just wanted to quickly interject and say at no point did I suggest an atr is just a tarted up accord with nice wheels lol I'm quite aware that the engine is different.. I just meant if I can find some type r bumpers and wheels it would be a nice addition. But I'd never badge it as an R, obviously .. and mainly I say because my bumpers and wheels were badly scuffed by the previous owner

But no, clearly they are very different cars. I wouldn't accept finest fwd of all time, clearly that's the old mini, for so many reasons other than power..
 
stuartb said:
I wouldn't accept finest fwd of all time, clearly that's the old mini, for so many reasons other than power..
On that basis it has to be the Citroen "Traction Avant", the world's first front-wheel drive monocoque production car, with full independent suspension (the principle on which all front-wheel drive cars are now based). 760,000 produced from 1934-57

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citro%C3%ABn_Traction_Avant

800px-Tractionfr02.jpg
 
Ok you make an interesting addition to the debate there.. I would ask how much racing history was made by it, and point out that the mini has it well trumped in numbers of production;) plus the mini is British which also means major bonus points as far as in concerned, that and the landrover get status as greatest cars ever, to me at least..

I'm sure that's a debate that could go on for days, maybe I'll just have to accept that our preferences differ..
 
Well the car that followed on from the Traction Avant was the ID ("Idée") aka DS ("Déesse" ), nearly 1.5 million produced from 1955 to 1975, winning the Monte Carlo Rally in 1959 and 1966

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citro%C3%ABn_DS

Timo_Korpivaara_-_1956_Rally_Finland.jpg



There was nothing in the BMC Mini that hadn't been done before, even the acclaimed transverse engine had been done before in the Saab 92
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saab_92

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saab_92#/media/File:1955saab92b.jpg

640px-1955saab92b.jpg



The BMC Mini was just a load of hype put out in the 1960's when British car manufacturing was in the beginnings of turmoil, in the 70's it got worse and was in steep decline. The fact that Britain had considerable remnants of its Empire in the 60's definitely helped with the hype and sales too :lol:

What is more incredible is that the French and Italians did make sure that they kept their Motor Manufacturing whilst the Germans and the Japanese, in complete lack of any Empire at all, came to dominate Motor Manufacturing in quality and numbers :eek:
 
The best FWD handling car of all time is the Integra Type R, the ATR is one of the best around, the ITR is widely heralded as the best. :wub:
 
see Im not so convinced about that, either lol .. to be fair I've not actually owned either, but Accords/Integras are quite big cars, no matter what suspension you put on them they're gonna sway around a bit arent they (or be back-breakingly rigid), whereas with the right diff, even on the standard rubber donuts, in a mini you literally keep the foot planted, and just steer into the bend, then steer out.. they just turn on the spot, no drama, pretty much any speed (..that it's capable of ..)

like it or hate it, you can't just dismiss the mini as 'hype' lol that just sounds like denial - alright, in this day and age, topping out at 70 or 80mph isnt really that great but Im thinking more about it's heyday - remember the mini went up against american muscle and trounced it soundly, seriously aggrevated porsche, merc and (yes) the Saabs as well in the monte carlos, three times running ;)

Im pretty sure the rubber donuts were innovative, the sidewards engine no but having the gearbox in the sump, pretty sure that was new.. the size of the cult following was (And is) far greater than more or less any other car.. the simplicity of the thing as well, you can literally strip and rebuild the entire thing in a day or two..

so many reasons for being great.. or maybe it;s just that I love them more than you do haha

what it does lack, i will admit, is a strong engine, you put much power through an a series and you're asking for block, crank or something in the gearbox to snap.. so they do get powerplant swaps a lot these days, like my mate with his red top in it, or someone else I know more distantly with a Integ. type R lump in his (being converted to 4wd last I heard)

funny enough though the day I read that above about the Saab, I saw it on a recording my dad made of 'for the love of cars', that beige one they rebuilt. to be fair, I would like one just for the retro vibe :) so im not against them

and yes, honda have done pretty well in racing over the years so I'm not knocking them either.. actually one of the best handing cars I've had myself was my little 1.3 civic that I stripped out and hooned about all over the place in lol that thing was great fun.. who needs power anyway, what you want is more lightness ;)

anyway.. just rambling now really.. each to their own
 
and one of my more favoured quotes, famously Mr Ferrari himself once said 'If the mini wasn't so ugly, I'd shoot myself'

i.e. the creator of the pinnacle of sports car technology was so astounded by the mini power and handling, that he would be very worried if they looked nice enough to compete for customers..
 
Final thought, I've been to a goodly number of race days at various tracks, they often have little stock car races in between the open wheel stuff and funnily enough, hand on heart, I've never seen a single accord or integra on a track, ever, it's just golfs, fiestas and maybe a civic (but even that's rare)

Is not like anyone can say that's a budget thing either, golfs are in the same price range, more or less, so why is that then?

I think accords and integras are (albeit sporty) really just road cars, they're not really racers are they. Or, if they are, what sort of series do they race in, touring cars? (dominated by bm / volvo / vauxhall / chrysler..) rally? (Dominated by citroen / ford / scoobies and mitsies)

Maybe I just go to all the wrong track days ;)

I dont mean to sound all negative about honda, why would I have one myself otherwise? not trying to start an argument or anything, in fact if you do have good comebacks to any of those things then feel free, I'll learn something and have interesting things to say about my choice of manufacturer in conversation in the future :) win / win
 
^ some very interesting and well-stated views tbh

it's just that in the 80's my mum had a mini that I used occasionally and it was awful, even a 2CV was a better drive in the wet and the snow LOL
 
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