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heater control module

awered

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Honda Accord
Hi.
I have problem with air condition in honda accord 2004, 2.4 petrol. In Honda garage say that i need new heater control module - nr. H39050SEDE812A. This part cost more than car :( Maybe somebody know where i should find this part, new or used or replacement. I want go to Italy, but without air condition it will be nightmare :( Sorry for my englisch.
Thx.
 
I started and contributed to the thread in the link provided by Brett in #2.

I see that your location is Coventry, if you have trouble understanding the thread, let us know.

To be honest, I really doubt if Honda are right about what they've told you. I could take a quick look at your car if you travel up to the Leicester services on the M1 (just north of junction 21), I live fairly close to there. It is very easy to diagnose the aircon system on he 2.4 petrol.
 
Hi.
Thx for answers. Generally problem is with cold air. Heating is working and if i put aircon max, air is hot. Not working cold air. If i put low aircon air is still warm.
If it is possible i prefer give car to someone how know what do ? :> My experience, knowledge and english is not good. For me i think the best way will be bring car to you :) I have 40 miles, it is ok :)
It will be nice, if i can bring car. Pleas give me information where and when, maybe some phone number ?
Thank you very much :)
 
Hi. I did test. push off + 5 times heating back windscreen. air condition on for few moments but no results.
 
Hi again. I try this manual and i think, that it's help. I try all steps and ok, than i try this :

Now energize the compressor clutch by connecting the wire from the slot to the battery positive terminal. WARNING, DO NOT LEAVE IT LIKE THIS FOR MORE THAN 30 SECONDS, DEFINITELY NO MORE THAN A MINUTE AT THE MOST, AND DO NOT REPEAT AGAIN FOR ANOTHER MINUTE. IF YOU LEAVE IT LIKE THIS WITH THE ENGINE RUNNING YOU MAY OVER PRESSURISE THE SYSTEM. There is a safety pressure valve in the compressor, but do not rely on it operating !!!

With the compressor clutch energized, if there is enough gas in the system, you will feel cold air coming out of the vents. If you are confident that the compressor clutch relay is ok, then the pressure sensor may be faulty.

WORKING !!! With this wire from relay to positive battery air coming cold !!! What next ? :>
link to other sides not working. I try know check temperature sensors :D

Thanks you very much for help and this howto :)
 
Great stuff this is what this forum is all about to help everyone and make good friends on the way
 
awered said:
Hi again. I try this manual and i think, that it's help. I try all steps and ok, than i try this :

Now energize the compressor clutch by connecting the wire from the slot to the battery positive terminal. WARNING, DO NOT LEAVE IT LIKE THIS FOR MORE THAN 30 SECONDS, DEFINITELY NO MORE THAN A MINUTE AT THE MOST, AND DO NOT REPEAT AGAIN FOR ANOTHER MINUTE. IF YOU LEAVE IT LIKE THIS WITH THE ENGINE RUNNING YOU MAY OVER PRESSURISE THE SYSTEM. There is a safety pressure valve in the compressor, but do not rely on it operating !!!

With the compressor clutch energized, if there is enough gas in the system, you will feel cold air coming out of the vents. If you are confident that the compressor clutch relay is ok, then the pressure sensor may be faulty.

WORKING !!! With this wire from relay to positive battery air coming cold !!! What next ? :>
link to other sides not working. I try know check temperature sensors :D

Thanks you very much for help and this howto :)
Did you also check to see if the relay is working ??

IF the relay IS working, and, because we now know that there is enough gas, and also that the compressor is working, THEN the problem is either a faulty pressure sensor, or, Honda were right and the fault is in the control module.
 
awered said:
Yes, i check relay and it's working. All steps with wire working.

The only other check is the pressure sensor, it's in post #15 in the "diagnosing aircon problems" thread
link to the post ==> http://typeaccord.co.uk/forum/topic/10382-diagnosing-aircon-problems/?p=117259

I wrote rather a lot about it, but basically the pressure sensor in the 2.4 is a simple switch, and you can check it with a paper-clip, but be careful because if you short the connector as in the pic in post #15, as soon as the compressor comes on, remove the paper-clip.

If the compressor never comes on, then the pressure sensor is not the problem, and it would seem that Honda might be correct, and the control unit is probably faulty :(
 
Mr Honda said:
The part number you list is for a radio of some sort?? So essentially the garage is saying that your climate control functions/hot/cold are kaputt from the main unit, never heard of that before. does you car have satnav btw?

http://www.lingshondaparts.com/honda_car_parts_selection.php?block_01=17SEA01&block_02=B__1610&block_03=2858
LOL that's a very good point

i don't know where the main aircon control unit is, but the heater parts and motor units are in this link
http://www.lingshondaparts.com/honda_car_parts_selection.php?block_01=17SEA01&block_02=B__1721&block_03=2855
 
Yes, i have sat nav, it is executive version. I try find this part but i can't. I think, that this is some kind of microprocessor or something like this. For me was stupid, that this panel can be fault. Rest functions working.
I order relay, just for case. If it doesn't help, probably try buy new pressure sensor. I did this test and nothing happen a/c doesn't work and i don't heart some turn off or on.I try this test again today when sun stop shining :)

On paper from honda i have, that requires heater contrtol module, part no : H39050SEDE812A and it cost 2735,32 with VAT. My car was chipper :D - ALL !!!
 
awered said:
Yes, i have sat nav, it is executive version. I try find this part but i can't. I think, that this is some kind of microprocessor or something like this. For me was stupid, that this panel can be fault. Rest functions working.
I order relay, just for case. If it doesn't help, probably try buy new pressure sensor. I did this test and nothing happen a/c doesn't work and i don't heart some turn off or on.I try this test again today when sun stop shining :)

On paper from honda i have, that requires heater contrtol module, part no : H39050SEDE812A and it cost 2735,32 with VAT. My car was chipper :D - ALL !!!
If you have done all the tests in #1 and #15 of "diagnosing aircon problems" then the conclusion is that the relay is ok, the compressor is ok, the gas is ok, and the pressure sensor is ok.

From that conclusion, Honda are correct, and the main HVAC control module is faulty.
Worse news, I think that Honda did give you the correct part number, see the picture below and my comments about it.



Mr Honda said:
You can input you chassis number into the lings website for a more accurate part number display, just don't forget to delete the _PFK from the url bar.

http://www.lingshondaparts.com/honda_car_parts_selection.php?block_01=17SEA01&block_02=B__1611&block_03=2855

But in the link above, there are 2 components on the back of the radio/navi, No. 9 and 10, both are related to air con power, I wonder if they've found an issue with them?

It looks like the main HVAC control module IS built into the audio system. The picture below is from the Honda DVD (click on it to get full screen) ....note that it is described as "AUDIO-HVAC module"

SEA3E50G10500000000DAAT02_grabbit.jpg



There is one more thing that you can try, just to check if the HVAC module is "alive" and if the motors and sensors are "reporting" to the HVAC module.

There is a built-in diagnostic system in the car., the picture below tells you how to use it (click on it to enlarge)


SEA3E50K71100000000BBAT00_4.jpg



See the test procedure that I did on my car ==> http://typeaccord.co.uk/forum/topic/14575-heater-problems/?p=205299
Try the same procedure, make notes of the readings, and see if the readings are sensible or peculiar
 
Hi. I did this test :
1 -20
2 - 15
3 - 01
4 - 29
5 - 19
6 - C9
7 - 01
8 - 00
9 - 17

Thx.
 
awered said:
Hi. I did this test :
1 -20
2 - 15
3 - 01
4 - 29
5 - 19
6 - C9
7 - 01
8 - 00
9 - 17

Thx.
Engine was cold (sensor 4=29 C), best to try it with engine at normal running temperature.

Next time the engine is at running temperature, stop the car, make sure that DUAL is ON, set the target temperatures to 26, then switch off.

Then re-do the test, but when you have it in diagnostic-mode, go into the A/C menu on the navi screen, and set A/C to OFF. Wait a few minutes, then take the readings, then come out of diagnostic-mode (by pressing AUTO), then set the target temperatures to 16, then switch off.

Then re-do the test, but when you have it in diagnostic-mode, go into the A/C menu on the navi screen, and set A/C to ON. Wait a few minutes, then take the readings, then come out of diagnostic-mode (by pressing AUTO).
 
Hi.
I drive 7 mil and did this test on a parking.
Turn on a/c on 26 switch off and :
1 - 33
2 - 23
3 - 66
4 - 94
5 - 31
6 - c9
7 - 01
8 - 00
9 - 13

and on low :

1 - 32
2 - 23
3 - 62
4 - 88
5 - 33
6 - c9
7 - 01
8 - 00
9 - d2

between test was break :)

Thx.

Now i see, that should do 3 test :) Tomorrow i will do this :D
 
awered said:
Now i see, that should do 3 test :) Tomorrow i will do this :D
Make sure that you do it as follows

1. get the engine up to running temperature
2. with engine still running, make sure that DUAL is ON, set the target temperatures to 26, then switch off the engine.
3. press and hold AUTO and DUAL buttons, start the engine, then release the buttons. Keep the engine running.
4. press the A/C button to get the system into "manual" mode (on the navi screen), then on the navi screen press the A/C OFF, set the blower direction to "=>", and set the blower to max, then wait a few minutes with engine still running and blower blowing
5. take the readings (using the window defogger button), then press the AUTO button
6. with engine still running, make sure that DUAL is ON, set the target temperatures to 16, then switch off the engine.
7. press and hold AUTO and DUAL buttons, start the engine, then release the buttons. Keep the engine running.
8. press the A/C button to get the system into "manual" mode (on the navi screen), then on the navi screen press the A/C ON, set the blower direction to "=>", and set the blower to max, then wait a few minutes with engine still running and blower blowing
9. take the readings (using the window defogger button), then press the AUTO button

I can then compare with readings on my car using exactly the same procedure.
 
Hi. Thank you for help :)
I did this two test :)

First on a/c off and 26 temperatures :
1-34, 2-26, 3-22, 4-96, 5-31, 6-c9, 7-01, 8-00, 9-16
Second test, A/C on and temperatures 16 :
1--33, 2-26, 3-16, 4-98, 5-35, 6-c9, 7-01, 8-00, 9-c1

Thanks :)
 
The only time that I have seen those readings for sensor 6, sensor 7, and sensor 9 were on two diesel cars. The diesel has a more complex system, but on both cars, the system seemed to put itself right (for the record, one system put itself right when it was re-gassed, the other system put itself right spontaneously).

Sensor 9 is the one that is of particular concern, it suggests that the main controller is faulty, but as I say, it can put itself right, though I do not know how or why.

I have even removed the relay in my car to see if I can reproduce the problem, but, even without the relay all the sensors give proper readings in my car (although sensor 5 and sensor 9 do not go cold, because the A/C does not work without the relay).

I notice that you did see the Private Message that I sent, if you want me to double-check the system in your car, contact me by Private Message (I can do more checks than is possible to do by posts).

edit 1: the table below is for when temperature sensors begin with an "alpha" character (sensors 1, 2, 4, 5, 9)
as far as I know sensor 9 should never have an "alpha" character in summer (or even in winter in this country),


SEA3E50K71100000000BBAT00_5.jpg


edit 2: you could also try disconnecting the negative lead from the car battery for about half an hour, because removing car battery power does reset some systems in the car
Afterwards, recheck sensor 9. With A/C OFF and target temperatures at 26, sensor 9 should be reading more than 26 with the engine at running temperature.

edit 3: probably not relevant, but also check that the heater valve is open and not closed

heater valve in open position

IMAG0555__zps0f8598e7.jpg



heater valve in closed position

IMAG0556__zpsffadb3f7.jpg
 
Good news !!!!

I have managed to get the diagnostics on my car to display the same strange readings on sensor 6, sensor 7, and sensor 9 on my car, even though the system is working perfectly ok in my car :eek:

It doesn't make any difference whether A/C is ON or OFF, or if DUAL is ON or OFF, or if RECIRC is ON or OFF .....and it doesn't make any difference if the relay (for the compressor) is in or out.

The conditions seem to depend on the temperature inside the car, if it is hot in the car and the target temperatures are less than the temperature in the car, then sensor 9 starts to show strange readings. C9 on the mix % sensor is less than 0% i.e. the flaps on the motors can rotate slightly beyond their zero point

So there is the possibility that your car is ok, at this moment I think that the problem in your car is either
1. the relay
2. the amount of gas is not enough
3. perished condenser
4. blocked pollen filter
5. a combination of the above

see you tomorrow as arranged ;)
 
I got back a while ago, it does seem to be an issue with the controller, but it could also be a break in a wire between the pressure sensor and the controller.

The pressure sensor definitely works ok ....it is closed circuit, then goes open circuit when the compressor is forced to work (using a jumper wire as in #1 of "diagnosing aircon problems")

The controller also functions ok .....the diagnostic readings are correct and change when the setting are changed, and, the flaps can be heard to move at various setting changes

The relay from my car did not make the system work, but the relay from my car worked before I took it, and also when I came back.

There is an "earth pull-down" (from the controller) that should pull in the relay, it was not there at all in any settings. However, this "earth pull-down" for the relay is there on my car, but if I remove the connector on the pressure sensor in my car, the "earth pull-down" is not there in my car.

I doubt if it is the controller. in my opinion, there is a break in the wiring loom, somewhere between the connector on the pressure sensor, and the control board.
 
I have had a closer look at the circuit diagram on the Honda DVD

SEA3EM0G10500000000EAAT00.jpg


The compressor relay is turned on and off by the ECM/PCM (Engine Control Module/Power-train Control Module), better known as the engine ECU. This is not surprising, as the engine revs pick up when the compressor comes on (if you force the compressor on using the wire in initial post of "diagnosing aircon problems", the engine revs do not pick up).

There is a signal from the aircon controller to the engine ECU, and it is easy to check that signal ....
With engine running, aircon on Auto, target temperature on Lo ....
#1. you should be able to measure battery voltage (14 with engine running) by using a volt-meter between battery positive and the right-hand pin in the socket in the picture below (ignore the paper clip in the socket)

DSCF0754.jpg


#2. If you also measure current between the two pins (instead of using a paper clip), you should see a small current.

I actually did #2 on the OP's car, and there was a current, which puzzled me, explanation right at the end of this post.

I am absolutely confident that the controller in the OP's car is NOT faulty in any way, a check of #1 would confirm it.

The reason why the engine ECU is not turning the aircon relay on, is because the wire from the left-hand pin goes via the "relay control module". The "relay control module" is the "block" in the picture below.

DSCF0746.jpg



The wire runs in a harness which plugs into the under-side of the "relay control module". The entire relay block (with relay control module) can easily be lifted up by removing the two bolts that hold it down. There is a good schematic on the Honda DVD, I will upload it later.

There is then a signal wire from the "relay control module" to the "gauge control module". The latter is in the dash, underneath the gauges (speedometer etc). That module can also be accessed, not as easily as the "relay control module", but much more easily than the aircon controller.

So to summarise ...
A. there is a wire from the aircon controller, direct to the right-hand pin in the picture of the connector for the pressure sensor, and this is a good place to check.
B. there is a wire from the left-hand pin to a plug on the underneath of the "relay control module"
C. there is a wire from another plug underneath the "relay control module", which goes to the "gauge control module".
D. there are two wires ***ociated with the aircon, from the "gauge control module" to the engine ECU
E. there is a wire from the engine ECU to the compressor relay

From what I have seen of the OP's car, IMO the fault is in the "relay control module" itself, or in the wire to the "gauge control module", or in the "gauge control module" itself. The reason I say this is because I did test #2 and there was a current, so IMO there must be continuity between the aircon controller all the way to the "relay control module". But I would recommend test #1 to be absolutely sure that the aircon controller is not faulty.
 
here is the schematic of the entire relay block, which includes the "relay control module"

0005.jpg


the first 3 plugs on the right, plug into the under-side of the "relay control module".

the 3rd plug from the right is (according to info on the Honda DVD) the plug with the wire from the pressure sensor (on pin 2 according to circuit diagram).


the 2nd plug from the right is (according to info on the Honda DVD) the plug with the wire to the "gauge control module" (on pin 7 according to the circuit diagram).

Here is a close-up from the circuit diagram of the path of the "signal" to turn the compressor on/off ....starts on the right (which is an output from the aircon controller), through the pressure sensor (closed until compressor compresses the gas), into the "relay control module", then into the "gauge control module", then two wires to the ECM/PCM (aka engine ECU)


0003.jpg



So, with aircon on Auto and temperature set to Lo, if pin 2 of the connector on the pressure sensor is "pulled down" (so that battery volts can be measured from battery positive to pin 2), then the aircon controller is working (note that if temperature is set to Hi, pin 2 should go open-circuit). If this is true and the relay is also ok, then the fault lies somewhere else in the "signal" path.
 
Hi. Thank you very much for help. I will do this tests in next week and put what I get? I hope that problem less seriously that this module :-D
Thx.
 
just an update on #9 ..... "vent temp air out".

Several days ago I managed to get the "negative" readout for #9 on my 2.4 petrol (which does not have the "aircon in reverse" system which the diesel has).

#9 seems to be a "virtual" reading, and is approximately "target temperature" minus "in-car temperature".

So if you set the "target temperature" to less than the "in-car temperature" (latter is displayed as #1) then you'll get a reading from the table below

SEA3E50K71100000000BBAT00_5.jpg


Also, "C9" in #6 or #7 (mix %) indicates that the flap has rotated slightly past its zero position, and is not a problem, unless it's permanently stuck.

Best way to check #6, #7, and #9 .....is to ramp the "target temperatures" up and down with the system in diagnostic mode (but note that you cannot see the "target temperatures" with the system in diagnostic mode). These should change as the "target temperature" goes above and below the "in-car temperature".


But re: the problem that the OP has, the best indicator is the "evaporator temp" #5, which should go below 10 C.
If the compressor runs and #5 does not go below 10C then there is not enough gas, or the condenser is perished.
If the compressor does not run (with #9 showing negative) then you need to test the relay and/or check the output from the aircon controller (as described above on the petrol car, but is not so easy to access on the diesel car)
 
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