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Accord mk6 A/C issues.

Mellenchip86

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Accord 2.0 ES
Hi Everyone. Maybe you can help me. I have a 1999 Accord 2.0 ES Auto that has air conditioning. When I bought the car it wasn't working (compressor clutch didn't engage). Today I had it gassed at kwik fit. At first it didn't work as the clutch still didn't engage so they gave me a refund. After a few miles it kicked in and the system is running, however it's still blowing warm. I can see the compressor running and I can hear the evaporator sort of gurgling behind the dash and the hose from the top of the condenser to to compressor is hot whilst the hose output from the bottom is cool but not cold. All seems to be working but I'm still bathed in warm air! Any ideas?
 
Thank for the reply. I've had a look at the condenser and it has a few small dings in the fins but nothing major. It did have some pressure before I gassed it but obviously not enough to click the compressor on. I'm wondering if the kwik fit people could have under gassed it? They seemed to think it was working when they gave me the keys back so who knows!
 
It depends on how they did it. The correct procedure, which KF usually does use, is to fully evacuate whatever is in there (hence making a partial vacuum) and then to put in a known quantity (by weight). The amount that they put in depends on the reference data that they have, and from what I have read, the reference data tends to be too much rather than too little. For the system on the 7th gen petrol accords it should be about 500 to 550 gms.

The compressor should not be running all the time, it should be cycling on and off when the system is running properly.

One other point, although they put some in, there may be a slow leak, and note that the leak does not empty fully, it depends on where the leak is e.g. if an o-ring has gone "hard" then a certain amount of gas will get round it, but only under pressure when the compressor is running.(depending on which section is leaking).
 
Thanks again for the info! So what should I do next? I don't want to just throw money at it guessing what's wrong really. They did use an automated machine that does a vaccum and leak test so I wouldn't have thought it could have had enough escape in a couple of mins to not cool at all? But I'm a bit stumped. would like to get it sorted. Thanks again for your help with this :)
 
If the compressor is running all the time it usually means there's some gas, but not enough. So if K-F did what you say, then the system has a leak somewhere (probably at an o-ring in the piping from compressor to condenser, or from condenser to evaporator) but only above a certain pressure in the pipe. So when sufficient gas has gone out, the pressure is no longer enough to leak.

Trying going back to the same K-F and ask them to evacuate the system and compare with the amount they put in. Also find out how much their info recommends to put in (I don't have the info for 6th gen so I can't say what amount Honda recommends).
 
btw the leak test that they do is only a vacuum test, and vacuum is only 15 psi, whereas the pressure inside the system is several hundred psi when the compressor is running.


So what happens is this
  1. they evacuate the system, and leave it under vacuum for a bit to see if air enters
  2. but the difference between inside and outside is only around 15psi
  3. they then put a "measured" amount of gas (by weight) into the system
  4. start the system up, if compressor kicks in, evaporator will go cold (it's now acting as a "heat pump" again)
  5. but now sections of pipe are under several hundred psi pressure
  6. if one of the o-ring seals is hard/dry/cracked then gas leaks out under high pressure
  7. as the pressure drops, the system's efficiency drops, so its ability to act as a "heat pump" fails
 
Thanks for such a comprehensive answer :) I contacted the kwik fit afterwards to ask how much gas they put in and the guy said he couldn't remember. He says he just puts the model into the machine and it does it so I'm sure he can find out. I'll go back tomorrow and see what they can find out. Can you replace these seals? Or is it whole new hoses needed? With the system evacuated I can replace the parts myself. It's just the gas I can't do.
 
Yes you can do it yourself, you just get somewhere to evacuate the system, do the work, then go back to get the system refilled. When you replace a compressor or a condenser (or any other part in the system) it is recommended that you also replace the o-rings on each connection on the part being replaced anyway. But there are many joints in the system, so it's best to find the leak (***uming there is one) before you start replacing them randomly. To find the leak, UV dye is mixed with the gas when the gas is put into the system, then a UV lamp is used to find the leak.
 
Fantastic :) thanks for all your help, I'll see if kwik fit do the leak detection dye and i'll let you know what happens.
 
Well I've spoken to kwik fit and they said they just plug the machine in. After that they don't really have any expertise in the matter. Not suprised really. I've been in contact with a mobile company called we chill any car that cover london and the south east. They will do a service, leak detection and change any leaking o ring seals and gas the system for £50! Air con is all they do and they seemed very professional at the service center. They will also take off the cost of the service from any parts that may need replacing as well. So I'm going to book them in for next week. I will keep you updated :)
 
I thought that was all that K-F do (K-F are ok, but like most places, including dealers, they're not aircon specialists).

£50 is cheap if nothing else needs replacing, but I don't know what they mean by a "service" on aircon LOL

Definitely looking forward to the update :)
 
It's just the discharge, Vaccum testing and adding dye to look for leaks I think.

If they will change the o rings as well then it's saving me money. It was £50 at kwik fit for just a regas.
 
Quick update. The guy was supposed to come today but has cancelled due to it raining a bit. Re booked for next Thursday. I've had a bit of an investigate today and removed the pollen filter to get at the evaporator. I ran the A/C and it does get slightly cold. I can hear gas entering so at least I know it's working on some level. I expect it's as you said and a leak above certain pressure at an o ring. Slowly getting there. Hopefully this will mean no major parts needed over the o ring seals!
 
Let us know how you get on, thinking of using them myself.
 
I had similar issues last year - the Condenser looked OK but turned out out be knackered. From my experience I'd strongly recommend visiting an A/C specialist. The re-gas is a comparative price to that of the likes of Kwik-Fit, but with the added bonus that they know what they are talking about and can get the replacement condenser for you. It does sound like yours is under-gassed if you can hear the gurgling. The fins on my old condenser looked intact, but a wiggle with a pokey-stick turned them to Aluminium dust in seconds.

My thread from last year:
http://typeaccord.co.uk/forum/topic/19676-air-conditioning-any-weak-points-in-the-system-that-could-cause-trouble/?hl=condenser#entry213432
 
Hi all. So I finally got around to getting mike at We Chill Any Car to come out and have a look at my A/C system. Booked in to come 10-12 on Thursday. He arrived at 10.30 and we drove to a local car park as there was no space on my street. He hooked the car up and drew out 10g of refrigerant! Found no leaks in the system but did change one o-ring on the condenser joint. He then recharged the system with 500g and it worked perfectly! Ice cold! He thinks that kwik fit just didn't put any gas in it... as there was no leaks for that much to get out so fast. Can't recommend these folks enough. Even did an anti bacterial clean for free. So happy it's now working!!
 
If there were no leaks I'm puzzled how/why he found an o-ring that needed replacing. How long did it take him to change the o-ring ?

But regardless, £50 is very good value for that.
 
He said there was some evidence that a very slow leak had taken place at that o ring but not serious enough to lose all the gas in the 5 mins between me paying at kwik fit and getting in the car. He said it would take many months. I think he did it just to be thorough really! Took him about 5 mins to change. I was very impressed with the whole operation. From the booking staff to the technician. Definitely would recommend :)
 
So another update. It's been 2 weeks since I had it gassed. It's not not cold anymore. I appear to have a slow leak. It's still working just not as well. I'm disappointed to say the least. Going to get a uv lamp to find the culprit hopefully and get it sorted again.
 
Update for anyone who wants to know. It's the discharge hose from the condenser to the condenser. Leaking from a crimped fitting. Going to get a second d hand one and hope that doesn't leak as well!
 
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