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T-Zone tax, London

C

Channel Hopper

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Location
KT8 Postcode
Car
Accord 7 Estate 2005
I understand this will affect earlier and possibly later generation Accords, however apart from a bland Euro 4 mention, the TFL website is a complete blank on whether specific vehicles/cars manufactured between 2001 and 2007 become a victim of the emissions (sur)charge, to be rolled out in London in October.

https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/emissions-surcharge?intcmp=45125#on-this-page-4


So, will a 2.2 manual oil burner like mine be subject to the £10 a day trousering exercise ?


Additionally the regulations state the following

Parked vehicles
Vehicles that are parked all day, in an on-street parking bay and displaying a valid resident's parking permit, will not be charged for that day.



If I have driven into the zone, and park up on a road without restrictions - there are a couple left - for a full day, one could still end up being fleeced.
 
The current Government is now offering a 'warning' over diesel car purchases, along with hints on a scrappage scheme for older cars.

They appear oblivious to what hapened the last time, how much it eventually cost the taxpayer and what happened to vehicles that would be both desireable and more eco friendly than their replacements a decade later. A number of colleagues of mine chose to upgrade their vans when they fell foul of the Low Emission Zones in cities. A few bought the very vehices that are now in the crosshairs.

There was a set of stats used to promote the last offer confirming the 'average' family car had around a 14 year life on the road. Does anyone know the current figure ?

https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2017/feb/25/chris-grayling-advises-motorists-to-think-hard-before-buying-diesel-cars-london-pollution-sadiq-khan
 
I have to drive to London every so often due to relatives living down there and sometimes work and feel I'm being forced off the road with my old car.

My old Honda had its mot last month and gave zero emissions, their machine couldn't pick anything up. It was also eligible to be part of the scrappage scheme 8 years ago, which seems silly for the condition it's in. Why am I being penalised for driving a clean car when these dirty vw's, audi's etc have been proven to be dirty? - it's not about being eco friendly, it's just another form of tax that will catch on onto other county's and towns from some greedy high up people.

Rant over, lol
 
My company van (2000 Nissan 2.3l) passed the emissions test at the standard for modern diesel vehicles five years ago, though I was doing some mileage each week on motorways which would have kept the pipes and exhaust clean. It would also run quite happily on a mix of Diesel and svo which - at the time - saved a few pounds each month.

The LEZ is reliant on cameras and ANPR however, so regardless of how clean the emmissions of vehicle is on the day, the penalties are based purely on the date of manufacture.

You can't even transplant new engine parts into an older car or van to bypass the legislation. Utterly nuts.
 
Some discrepancies in this morning's news ahead of the budget. It's either 'pre 2005' or '2005 and earlier' vehicles that are to be hit with the updated conditions for London travel.

There is also noise about rules for Liverpool commuting.
 
Strange, but I caught a snippet of some promo for older taxis being 'upgraded' with replacement engines to beat the new regulations (a garage in Birmingham ?).

How are they able to get away with the DVLAs date of manufacture and camera recognition rules that screw others over ?

I had a Citroen BX 16V that the previous owner had converted to a diesel (1700 turbo) when he blew the engine up,
Changing back to petrol (as I could have done with the Nissan Vanette) should make the ultra low emission a thing of the past, but their website and ANPR legislation says no.
 
Here we go - it's worse. Your car is now less than worthless despite Honda doing everything to clear the engine and fuel system over decades..

Euro 6 diesel (and Euro 4 Petrol) owners are going to be penalised financially to feed the whims of the latest mayor and his minions.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-39492829


Pandering to a minority that claim health issues, some dubious scientific 'research', the DVLA and a private company / contractor making a profit from the cameras.

Expect this to be rolled out to a city near you.
 
Most sites pin the Euro IV standard to early 2006 though car manufacturers were meeting the specifications before it came in
 
Channel Hopper said:
Most sites pin the Euro IV standard to early 2006 though car manufacturers were meeting the specifications before it came in
Click to expand...
That's correct.

In every industry there is an inter-relationship between the manufacturers and the standards setters. The latter don't set the standards over-night, there is a dialogue and lead up to the date when the standard is introduced. When a manufacturer decides that they are going to introduce a new version of their model, they know the lifetime of that version, and they know when new standards are due, so they ensure that the new version will pass the new standard before or during its lifetime.


edit:
all the dates and standards for EU passenger cars listed in the wiki link below
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_emission_standards#Emission_standards_for_passenger_cars

Note that all 7th gens (petrol and diesel) are Euro 4, so all 7th gen petrol cars are safe.

However, I don't think that even the 8th gen diesel car is Euro 6 ??
 
I look forward to the generous scrappage scheme necessary to prise The keys from my thrifty, diesel-loving hands.

Or am I being too hopeful; will our government simply increase VED and 'congestion charges' until diesel vehicles are abandoned by owners?
 
If it means you can get a not very old car for peanuts I'm all for it
 
I call conspiracy. Years of financial incentives to drive diesels, now all of a sudden they're evil pollutants and must be highly taxed...

Clearly the oil industry wants to focus on petrol sales for the next few years.
 
Well it was/is a conspiracy, but not driven by the oil industry, driven by the "war" on CO2 (a legitimate war but doomed).

Being more efficient, for a given cc, the diesel engine emits less CO2 per mile than a petrol engine. It wasn't until the VW diesel emissions scandal that it became apparent that the way that the vehicles get past the standards is "rigged". Thus whilst diesel engined cars will always produce less CO2 per mile than same-sized petrol engined cars, their actual real-life emissions on-the-road are very noxious.

It took the VW emissions scandal to make everyone sit up and take notice of the real-life emissions of all vehicles, not just CO2.


edit:
just to clarify what I mean by "rigged" ....there are two ways that the emission test is rigged by the manufacturers, a legitimate way, and a non-legitimate way (same as difference between tax avoidance and tax evasion).

The legitimate way is to design the engine so that it is at its best during the driving cycle
read this very brief wiki description https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_European_Driving_Cycle

this is an excellent uk gov pdf on driving cycles https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/4247/ppr-354.pdf

The software in the ECU can be "tuned" to meet these driving cycles, but note that these driving cycles are not representative of the real world, they're just a common test cycle that all cars undergo to meet the emission standard.

The non-legitimate way was what VW were doing. AFAIK they had Bosch ECU's and that particular ECU had some code that knew when the USA equivalent of the MOT test was being undertaken. That code was only supposed to be used on engine test beds, not in the actual car, but VW released the ECU with the code enabled. When the ECU knew that the car was no longer under test, it switched over to a map that gave better mpg but worse pollution.

Note that the UK MOT test is only performed at idle and doesn't really show very much. A car engine has to be really really really really really really really really really bad to fail a UK MOT.

Since the VW scandal emerged, many independent test agencies have been thoroughly testing vehicle emissions on the road, and it is that testing that has revealed how noxious the diesel emissions are.
 
I still think they should give me reduced road tax if it's based on C02.
I have loads of trees.
The townies should pay my road tax.
 
What if everyone with a tourer carried a couple of pot plants in the boot?

We should be allowed in London for free then, right?
 
Jon_G said:
So we've stopped caring about CO2 then?
Click to expand...
that's the point, we all die from drowning or hurricanes (result of global warming induced by increased CO2), or from pollution .....either of those is a result of burning fossil fuels :wacko:

damn those fossils :blink:
 
Its all about balance.
Working from home nowadays saves my over 2000 miles a month, offsetting the 15l of 2t premix I turned into blue smog on Sunday.
 
Goodluckmonkey said:
Its all about balance.
Working from home nowadays saves my over 2000 miles a month, offsetting the 15l of 2t premix I turned into blue smog on Sunday.
Click to expand...
You own a Trabant and use it to take your family to church?
 
Goodluckmonkey said:
Its all about balance.
Working from home nowadays saves my over 2000 miles a month, offsetting the 15l of 2t premix I turned into blue smog on Sunday.
Click to expand...
Please don't remind Mr Khan and his cronies about motorcycles of any type, it may be the only vehicle Capita don't flag up with the cameras.

(I can see number plate swopping on a huge scale btw)


Interesting reponse though in this article, TFL believes vehicles can be adapted to pass the earlier LEZ requirements, unless I'm reading it wrong.


The LEZ is designed to be a deterrent. This is reflected in the level of
the daily charge of up to £200 and the Penalty Charge of up to £1000. If
vehicle owners know they can avoid the charge by avoiding the cameras
themselves, it removes the incentive to adapt their vehicle to meet the
required emissions standards. This in turn will affect the necessary level
of improvement in air quality.



https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/tfl_anpr_cameras_and_data
 
you can buy these "License-number-frame-protector-Stealth-number-plate-007-bond-style" on ebay

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/262924495535

(it says "protect your car at night from thieves trying to steal your number plate and cloning your registration" so there is a get-out, but if you were caught on camera using it on the road, could be trouble)

alternatively (fitted to a Honda Accord no less)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1KMhqC_drpU
 
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