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Brake splash shields

freddofrog

freddofrog

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As this will become a factor as cars age, I thought I'd start a discussion on the shields behind brake discs.

  • do people worry if the shields are becoming loose
  • do people pull the shields off when they become loose or do they replace them
  • do people remove the shields anyway to stop stones getting caught between the shield and disc
  • why are the shields there in the first place
 
Won't worry about it until the NCT (your MOT) picks up on it. As you say, they are shields so hopefully will stop road filth, mud, water, oils getting in and potentially causing some sort of brake deterioration when they're needed most. A deterrent moreso than a fix....
 
I've obviously not done a formal survey, but apparently many cars (including Vauxhall) don't have these shields anymore.

The front ones fell off my Toyota a few years ago and this hasn't even attracted an MoT advisory... Neither can I see any additional corrosion or wear as a result.

I'm inclined to suggest it's nothing to worry about, but does beg the question as to why car manufacturers bothered to fit them in the first place... they wouldn't waste money on something that didn't add perceived valued.
 
Perhaps they help prevent little stones getting caught in the calliper and making awful noises until they fall out again?
 
Stevearcade said:
Perhaps they help prevent little stones getting caught in the calliper and making awful noises until they fall out again?
Click to expand...
It's the shield that traps the stones, although I've never had that happen.
 
It happens all the time on my car, local council just lay stones onto the roads around here all the time, get the screeching on the front or the back. There was even one that was so stubborn that I had to jack up the car, remove the wheel, bend the shield back (further away from the disc) and a small pebble fell out.

If they are supposed to stop stones, they don't, and if they're supposed to stop mud getting to calipers, they don't (otherwise the pads in the rear calipers on these cars wouldn't need to be freed up every 6 months), and if they're supposed to stop water getting to the calipers then maybe the shield should be removed to let more water get there to clean out the pads in the calipers B)

As Jon says, some cars come without them fitted, either on the front, or altogether.

"Splash shield" sounds a daft name, are these brake designers worried about driving through a big puddle :lol:
Maybe they fit them to deliberately to increase sales of pads and discs ?
 
I've had several instances of grit getting in the brakes and squealing like crazy!
 
Maybe the shields stop water being driven onto a hot disc when driving through deep water, which could cause them to warp?
 
It depends how deep the water is, because if the water itself is deep enough to come up to the shield, then the water will come directly into contact anyway.

However, if the water is shallow (a puddle) then the the shield would help to reduce a "splash" of water getting onto part of the disc, but I can't see that a single splash would contain enough thermal capacity to warp a disc. If there are multiple puddles then maybe, but to get multiple puddles there would have to be rain, and so there would be spray, so there would already be a "mist" around the disc.

If there is a good engineering reason, then it's probably been lost in the mist of time (pun intended). AFAIK these splash shields date back to when disc brakes were first fitted to road cars, but not on all of the cars. IIRC the Daimler SP250 and the Jaguar XK150 were roadster sports cars that both came out in the late 1950's with 4 wheel disc brakes, and I think that the Daimler SP250 did not have shields fitted but the Jag did (?)
 
Now there's a damned good point, the discs on early motorbikes would have been thinner and more prone to warping, so if those don't require shields then one has to wonder what maniacal fool would want them fitted on a car. Maybe it was marketing who came up with the idea :lol:
 
The discs on earlier bikes were huge thick things. I have a '78 gs750 and the discs are approx 9mm thick.

A modern disc is half the thickness.

The only time they've ever had covered discs was for aesthetics.

FWIW, I ground the spot weld off the o/s/r disc splash guard on my tourer and chucked it. MOT guy wasn't fussed.
 
That is very interesting, i am tempted to take them off both rears on my Tourer just because they are daft.
 
They do have a lip on them that corresponds with a groove in the disc - prevents crud getting to the drum ***embly.

Removed that one of mine because they rust behind the disc then have a little squeal and drone.
 
One of mine came off recently.

Thanks to your goodself I now know it's definitely not an MOT fail, despite being informed otherwise on another forum. I checked with my local Honda main dealer, who does my MOTs, and they confirmed this.

In the couple of weeks or so it's been off I've driven in different conditions, including wet/muddy, and noticed no difference whatsoever.

Replacing these on the Tourer looks an unappealing job, so I'm very happy not to have to do it.
 
They're spot welded to the hub carrier. Don't even know if replacement's an option?
 
The tourer has a rear drum system, so don't think that removing them is quite so easy. The fronts are removable.
 
The fronts are probably worse. The hub's in the way, so you'd need to press the hub out the bearing to get them off, unless you cut them off, and then you don't have room to swing an angle grinder.

On the rears you just pull the brake disc off and grind off the spot welds.

Edit - on a 7th Gen tourer anyway.
 
^what he said

this is the diagram of the parking brake shoes on Lings, it shows the backing plate with the shield as one part, the red circle (drawn by my niece's son aged 5) shows the division between the plate and the shield

CM2_rear_parking_shoes.jpg


but in reality the shield is just spot welded and those give way over time, as is starting to happen in the pic below

CM2_rear_photo.jpg
 
Cliffordski said:
despite being informed otherwise on another forum.
Click to expand...
I can just imagine some maniacal nincompoop conflating issues so that white appears black.
 
freddofrog said:
^what he said

this is the diagram of the parking brake shoes on Lings, it shows the backing plate with the shield as one part, the red circle (drawn by my niece's son aged 5) shows the division between the plate and the shield

CM2_rear_parking_shoes.jpg


but in reality the shield is just spot welded and those give way over time, as is starting to happen in the pic below

CM2_rear_photo.jpg
Click to expand...
Was gonna say 'Yeah, mine look like that' then I realised that's my car.
They rust where they meet the backplates, and the fluffy bits get all noisy. I just got tired of cleaning it up, so went renegade on it as usual.
 
Goodluckmonkey said:
Was gonna say 'Yeah, mine look like that' then I realised that's my car.
They rust where they meet the backplates, and the fluffy bits get all noisy. I just got tired of cleaning it up, so went renegade on it as usual.
Click to expand...
O M G

You won't believe this, but someone half-inched your pic and used it in another forum, and I half-inched it from there :eek:

here is your original http://typeaccord.co.uk/forum/topic/21209-rear-wheel-bearing-change-gen-7-tourer/?p=225049


and the shields on my Tourer are slightly worse on that side
 
But I have a question for everyone , which is, is this system designed by Nissin ?

The ABS modulator and the factory-fitted calipers have Nissin on them (well 7th gen anyway) and on the Nissin website they say

"Nissin Kogyo's overriding goal is to constantly produce the most advanced braking systems possible. To this end, the company is engaged in research and development encompassing a wide range of technologies and products. Since production commenced in 1982, Nissin Kogyo's series of anti-lock brake systems (ABS)-- a fusion of advanced brake and computerized control system technologies--have already sold a cumulative total of more than 10 million units worldwide. Nissin Kogyo is also utilizing aluminum casting and processing technologies, a second strength rivaling its expertise in brake technology, to develop and manufacture lighter products. By leveraging technological prowess in these core business areas to deliver compact, lightweight, and high-performance components, Nissin Kogyo is doing its part to reduce environmental impact and enhance safety--two universal requirements of the automotive industry. Nissin Kogyo Co., Ltd. is the parent company for both Nissin Brake Ohio and Nissin Brake Georgia."


http://www.nissinbrake.com/corporate-profile/nissin-kogyo-co-

so is it Nissin's own design ?
 
Hahaha. Just reminds me that I need to get the pressure washer on the drive.
 
freddofrog said:
But I have a question for everyone , which is, is this system designed by Nissin ?

The ABS modulator and the factory-fitted calipers have Nissin on them (well 7th gen anyway) and on the Nissin website they say

"Nissin Kogyo's overriding goal is to constantly produce the most advanced braking systems possible. To this end, the company is engaged in research and development encompassing a wide range of technologies and products. Since production commenced in 1982, Nissin Kogyo's series of anti-lock brake systems (ABS)-- a fusion of advanced brake and computerized control system technologies--have already sold a cumulative total of more than 10 million units worldwide. Nissin Kogyo is also utilizing aluminum casting and processing technologies, a second strength rivaling its expertise in brake technology, to develop and manufacture lighter products. By leveraging technological prowess in these core business areas to deliver compact, lightweight, and high-performance components, Nissin Kogyo is doing its part to reduce environmental impact and enhance safety--two universal requirements of the automotive industry. Nissin Kogyo Co., Ltd. is the parent company for both Nissin Brake Ohio and Nissin Brake Georgia."


http://www.nissinbrake.com/corporate-profile/nissin-kogyo-co-

so is it Nissin's own design ?
Click to expand...
Normally a case of them designing certain components, and the Honda (or whoever) engineers selecting the components they want.

It's common in the motorcycle world for them to have a mix of nissin and brembo components to provide a particular level of feel, or comparitive braking power in the two systems.

My last Triumph had Nissan master cylinders and front calipers, but a rear brembo caliper.
 
Other than their petrol engines, I'm beginning to wonder how much is off-the-shelf stuff, I might start a new thread

Sticking to the subject of brakes (no pun intended) , in #9 I mentioned the Daimler SP250 and the Jag XK150 (two roadster sports cars that came out at about the same time in the late 1950's). I haven't found a parts diagram for the XK150, but the E-Type came out after that, and there are parts diagrams for that.

SP250 front
Daimler_v8_250_front_brakes.jpg


SP250 rear
Daimler_v8_250_rear_brakes1.jpg



E-Type front
Jag_e_type_front_calipers.jpg



E-Type rear (mounted inboard, on the rear diif)
Jag_e_type_rear_caliper.jpg







Daimler used Girling brakes, whilst the E-Type used Dunlop systems, so even back in the days when disc brakes first arrived on road-cars in the UK, there was some inconsistency.
 
Opposed 3 pot front brakes!

Never seen that before.
 
I bet it's no fun working on them :unsure:

Mind you, I'd like to have the chance , big house, big garage, etc
 
Goodluckmonkey said:
Opposed 3 pot front brakes!

Never seen that before.
Click to expand...
There are plenty in the bike world, usually 2012 onwards.

Going back to the stone shields (and I do have a Honda with inboard brakes - VF400), there is a good chance that the secondary purpose is to deflect cooler air from the ground towards the discs as opposed to nice warm air from the engine/turbo/exhaust, along with all that oily mist from the spillage on the cylinder head, the leaky sump or the fractured fuel pipes.,
 
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