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s-preston87

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Location
Lancashire
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7th Gen- Sport
Hi guys,

I think my third gear synchro is starting to go, I had my clutch replaced when the car was purchased and had the transmission fluid replaced with Honda MTF.
Due to financial circumstances I can not afford to pay for the transmission to be taken out again, cracked open to then inspect the synchro's.

I have been doing a lot of research on the GM synchromech friction modified > now know as AC Delco synchromesh friction modified, apparently helps to smooth out gear changes and help protect already warn synchros etc. Before the abuse starts lol I am fully aware that it is only masking the problem, this will ONLY be a temporary solution.

Many many reviews from USA and even in the UK high recommend it, but has anyone here used it before?

Any help, advise, links etc would be much appreciated.

cheers ^_^

https://www.amazon.com/ACDelco-10-4014-Friction-Synchromesh-Transmission/dp/B0026JK8FK


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(BTW: Driving a 2005 Accord Sport PETROL)
 
I don't have direct experience of gearbox problems. However the 'notchy third gear problem' is common on Honda Civics and Redline MT90 is widely hailed as a cure on the Civinfo forum.

Let us know how you get on, whatever gearbox oil you try!
 


This is what's in mine. Had a crunchy synchro when i bought it, and an oil change cured it.

Wether it was just fresh oil, or the oil I used that made the difference I'll never know. Couldn't even tell you how worn the synchro is as I've never split the gearbox. So don't know if it was still on it original oil, or if someone had changed it with something unsuitable?

Was crunchy as 148k. Now has 173k on it and is smooth. After the oil change it took around a thousand miles or so for everything to smooth out.
 
This sounds like a common sludge problem where changing the oil (in anything) will remove only deposits in the suspension but not the hard encrusted ones on the engine components.

Once the new oil is in and given a good run in, what is on the metal components breaks up to a small extent and then becomes part of the oil.

Draining a second time and refilling (not even with new oil, but with the same but strained of the latest particles), will give even better results.
 
Sounds perfectly sensible to me.

I changed it out a 2nd time when I swapped the driveshafts on it last year.

Got a fresh half-shaft sat in the garage, so need to do that some time.
 
s-preston87 said:
Hi guys,

I think my third gear synchro is starting to go, I had my clutch replaced when the car was purchased and had the transmission fluid replaced with Honda MTF.
Due to financial circumstances I can not afford to pay for the transmission to be taken out again, cracked open to then inspect the synchro's.

I have been doing a lot of research on the GM synchromech friction modified > now know as AC Delco synchromesh friction modified, apparently helps to smooth out gear changes and help protect already warn synchros etc. Before the abuse starts lol I am fully aware that it is only masking the problem, this will ONLY be a temporary solution.

Many many reviews from USA and even in the UK high recommend it, but has anyone here used it before?

Any help, advise, links etc would be much appreciated.

cheers ^_^

https://www.amazon.com/ACDelco-10-4014-Friction-Synchromesh-Transmission/dp/B0026JK8FK


---------------------------------------------------------------------
(BTW: Driving a 2005 Accord Sport PETROL)
I wouldn't personally. As Matt suggests, I'd go for a synthetic 75W 80 GL4. (Not GL5.) The Redline equivalent is MTL which is great quality - I used it once myself but gave up on it due to its high cost. A cheapskate alternative is MTF94 (my current choice) or MTF2. MTF3 is very low viscosity, for better economy.

This seems to support that approach, as it recommends the GL4 GM fluid rather than the one you're thinking about http://benmlee.com/4Runner/Transmission_Oil.htm
 
Can't profess to be any kind of expert, but I work on the basis that certain specifications of fluids are chosen for a reason.

Racing motorcycles for years has taught me that the manufacturer knows significantly more than some of the self-proclaimed internet experts out there.

The people who truly know their onions can get lost amongst mountains of misinformation, so on such matters I usually refer to a known source because I'm not educated enough on the subject to sort the wheat from the chaff.

Take it you're in the oil game Cliffordski?
 
No Matt, I'm just someone who has followed bad advice in the past like everyone else. In my case that advice was written in the 4th Gen Accord owners manual. It said use Honda MTF in the gearbox, or if not available, 10W 30 motor oil.

Honda MTF 1 was difficult to get hold of 20 years ago - I got told to drive to the main dealer with my own container and pay silly money to have it pumped out of a drum, so I thought to heck with that. Instead I tried the oil option, and got some nasty crunches changing down into 3rd at speed, despite raising the revs first.

So then I ignored the manual altogether and tried one or two alternatives - as recommended for my car by the retailer or gear oil manufacturer - with varying success. In particular, the Castrol-recommended one at the time was a 75W 90 which in the real world I found too viscous, as there would still be the odd dodgy change from first to second on cold winter mornings.

When going your own way there is always closed-mindedness to contend with. Whenever I asked for advice online about gearbox oil I was usually met with a chorus of Trotsky-style ‘useful idiots’ telling me to 'ONLY use Honda’s fluid and NOTHING else otherwise my gearbox WILL dissolve/explode/turn into a pumpkin at midnight. I knew this was nonsense because Honda themselves went from MTF to MTF2 to MTF3. So in other words, according to these 'experts', on two occasions Honda’s own previous fluid suddenly turned from liquid gold into liquid poop overnight.

What happened in reality was that the official Honda fluid - as recommended for all gearboxes old and new - went less viscous over time for whatever reasons - presumably 'environmental' rather than engineering related. Such that MTF3 is virtually ATF spec viscosity, apparently.

I agree with you about relying on people who know their stuff. I don’t, but I think Opie Oils do. They recommend Redline MTL or Amsoil MSTF for Honda manual gearboxes. Both of those are 75W 80 GL4 spec. I’ve also seen it advised on other niche oil sale websites than Opie that this spec. protects better than MTF3. And clearly some reputable aftermarket sellers such as Comma (whose brake fluid I’ll be using today) also still follow it. So on balance this looks the best bet in my view. I respect Honda 110% but as you say it’s hard to know which advice from the advice mountain to follow sometimes.
 
Cliffordski said:
a chorus of Trotsky-style ‘useful idiots’ telling me to 'ONLY use Honda’s fluid and NOTHING else otherwise my gearbox WILL dissolve/explode/turn into a pumpkin at midnight..
one of those forums that only knows about House Keeping ;)
 
I'm using VALVOLINE at the min and it's a huge improvement to OEM in my opinion.
 
Cliffordski said:
Gotta watch your step on some forums.
IiRC the moonies on House Keeping are told that non-Honda garages giving out MOT's may have their licences revoked by VOSA
 
Jon_G said:
Brett... I was worried that you'd disappeared!
No bud just been very quiet on all forums lately as snowed under with work pressures at the min
 
Cliffordski said:
No Matt, I'm just someone who has followed bad advice in the past like everyone else.

Ain't that the truth. Think we've all been there at one point or another.

The one that always gets me is where people give advice with authority on things they haven't solved themselves.

The only reason I can actually comment on so much stuff here is that my diesel seemed to develop nearly every problem going within the first year of ownership. My £1300 car owed me £3000 (car plus parts only - I did all the work) within a year.
 
Thanks you all for the helpful advise and links. So atm I am leaning towards Redline MTL and at £19 for just over 900ml it's expensive but much much cheaper than getting a rebuild lol.

I have read and heard that changing the transmission fuild once only replaces rougly 50-60% of the original fluid. So as an idea I may buy 3 bottles to use the first time. Then a month after (or a 1000 miles later) changing the fluid again if it tests okay the first time round. Hopefully the second time around most if not all the fluid would have been replaced.

In essence a transmission fluid which is 75W 80 and GL4 is ideal
 
s-preston87 said:
Thanks you all for the helpful advise and links. So atm I am leaning towards Redline MTL and at £19 for just over 900ml it's expensive but much much cheaper than getting a rebuild lol.

I have read and heard that changing the transmission fuild once only replaces rougly 50-60% of the original fluid. So as an idea I may buy 3 bottles to use the first time. Then a month after (or a 1000 miles later) changing the fluid again if it tests okay the first time round. Hopefully the second time around most if not all the fluid would have been replaced.

In essence a transmission fluid which is 75W 80 and GL4 is ideal

I think those threads about only replacing half the fluid relate to automatic transmissions. When you drain a manual, it all comes out.

If you want the best, Redline is the one. As Matt said though, results aren't always instant after a fluid change - sometimes it takes a little while for the new fluid to make a difference. Good luck - I hope it does the trick.
 
Thank you Cliffordski. You have opened my eyes to the wonderful world of Transmission fluids.

Hopefully this thread will help other accord owners out who may also be in limbo. I Will be giving this a go in the next few weeks and will be providing an update there after.

Cheers
 
** Just a little update peeps **

Went onto Opie Oils and brought 3 bottles of Redline MTL 75w 80 GL-4 (1 Quart per bottle)
I believe my transmission takes 2.1Lrs... please correct me if i'm wrong.
If i get a chance this weekend i will be popping this in.

To be fair it was was quite pricey @ £18.48 per bottle or 3 for £51.?? but Opie was the cheapest, plus used the TA discount code and saved 10%.

I will sned a another update in the coming weeks. Fingers crossed B)
 
** Another quick update guys **

The transmission shifts much better than before... however there are a couple of things i picked up.

1) The third gear is smoother but still feels like its grinding from time to time especially in high revs
2) If i drive like a normal human being nice and steady the shifts are fine, even 3rd seems smooth enough.
3) The transmission seems to be much stiffer when its cold than before the oil change - ***uming will have to wait a few minutes for the oil to warm up before rushing off to work in the winter months..
4) I think the bushes need replacing as the gear stick is a little wobbly. (Not related to post but wanted to put this in anyways)

Overall this seems to work - all gears change smoothly bar 3rd - i will provide another update in a few months.
 
Have you checked master or slave cylinder the pedal can be adjusted that may resolve third gear crunching if not new third gear synchro

Sent from my C6603 using Tapatalk
 
s-preston87 said:
** Another quick update guys **

The transmission shifts much better than before... however there are a couple of things i picked up.

1) The third gear is smoother but still feels like its grinding from time to time especially in high revs
2) If i drive like a normal human being nice and steady the shifts are fine, even 3rd seems smooth enough.
3) The transmission seems to be much stiffer when its cold than before the oil change - ***uming will have to wait a few minutes for the oil to warm up before rushing off to work in the winter months..
4) I think the bushes need replacing as the gear stick is a little wobbly. (Not related to post but wanted to put this in anyways)

Overall this seems to work - all gears change smoothly bar 3rd - i will provide another update in a few months.
Two questions

Did you get the oil warm before draining ?

How much oil / banana skins / nylon stockings / metal pieces came out of the gearbox when you drained it ?
 
s-preston87 said:
** Another quick update guys **

The transmission shifts much better than before... however there are a couple of things i picked up.

1) The third gear is smoother but still feels like its grinding from time to time especially in high revs
2) If i drive like a normal human being nice and steady the shifts are fine, even 3rd seems smooth enough.
3) The transmission seems to be much stiffer when its cold than before the oil change - ***uming will have to wait a few minutes for the oil to warm up before rushing off to work in the winter months..
4) I think the bushes need replacing as the gear stick is a little wobbly. (Not related to post but wanted to put this in anyways)

Overall this seems to work - all gears change smoothly bar 3rd - i will provide another update in a few months.
Mine took about 4-5 thousand miles to set itself straight. Must take a while to clean the old deposits off the synchros.
 
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