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Wheel Sensors - My Experience of drilling out.

Channel Hopper

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Following on from the other thread(s) and success/failures, cheap/expensive elsewhere, please find below the procedure employed when presented with a broken front left side wheel sensor, and the extinguishing of the dreaded three dashboard lights. This has been done without disassembly of the hub, only the wheel has been removed for access.

Images as and when clarity is needed.
 
Hole cleaned up and a smaller hole drilled downn to just above the sensor depth to introdce a self tapping screw. Lots more lubricant thrownn into the hole (diesel/petrol mix) and left for a few hours.

http://www.imagebam.com/image/b30096546227327

Pulling on the screw did not remove the remaing part of the sensor but instead it broke up into a small and large piece, the smaller of whch could be extracted. Even with fine tweezers though the larger part could not be removed, even though it moves arouund quite freely. Supergluing a coctail stick to it has failed.
 
The larger piece has dropped down slightly into what looks like a void between the bearing sensor and the outer hub, however the gauge shows a maximim of 16mm which with the new sensor measuring just on 28mm means about 12mm remains inside.

http://www.imagebam.com/image/ff5713546229951

What is interesting is the oil that has appeared on the lower hub joint, suggesting there is a hole or vent in the bottom of the hub to allow water out should it gain access to the bearings. What I will try next is to clean the oil off the remaining part of the sensor today, and use quick epoxy on another stick, to try and lift the remaider free from the hub.

Fingers crossed
 
There is almost no way to pull out the sensor withouth taking off the wheel bearing if you don't want to damage the bearing.
When i replaced mines, and the ports of the sensors were perfectly clean i put some cooper grease in the ports to prevent corosion.
If i remember well you will need an 9mm drill bit to clean perfectly the port.
When putting back together use some marine grease ( water resistant ) on the bearings O-ring to prevent ingress of water.
Use some Locktite 243 on the bearing screws to avoid any surprises


Poslano z mojega SM-N910C z uporabo Tapatalk
 
Thanks and yes, I've found out the hard way, though the sensor was defective before I dismantled it. I have already found the axle nut too hard to remove so the car is jacked up at the front and on a heavy duty stilt. Currently I do not wish to drive it to a garage, much less pay for hub removals.

I think the internal diameter of the hole is 9.5mm but for now I can see that the remaining piece of sensor is free to move around. I've 'Jizer'd the hole, run a paintbrush around inside and thrown some clean water inside (which has come out of the hole under the hub). With luck it will dry sufficiently this afternoon for another attempt at gluing something onto the remains. I think a chopsick and araldite is the way to go.

Will take more pictures as I progress.
 
I really don't think it's the end of the world if you do drop in a few bits of plastic swarf inside, which is pretty much the majority of what'll be remaining after drilling down from the end where the wires come out. I'd carry on just being careful as possible until you've got the old sensor completely out. The key thing is to not allow the drill to enter too far into the void, as it could easily damage the ring that has the magnets embedded in it (the inner face of the wheel bearing) and then that's a much bigger problem. I wouldn't use petrol, etc as a wash though; blasts of WD40 would be more gentle.

I recently drilled out both my fronts and replaced them using one 'slightly used' genuine Honda sensor and one JapanParts aftermarket sensor (however I did have both front hubs off at the time whilst replacing the lower ball joints). Before fitting the new sensors I took resistance measurements for comparison, and depending which way round the meter was connected this gave very different readings, suggesting a semiconductor sensor (rather than a simple inductor)... worryingly the high reading of the Honda part was around 5M ohm, while the JapanParts high reading was around 0.5M ohms! However both work fine and all three warning lights self-extinguished as soon as I drove the car forwards (and no neutralisation procedure was required).

On the left (passenger) side I found undoing the sensor connector to be too difficult until I removed the complete air filter box. Only then could I properly hold the orange electrical connector to disengage the clip, but perhaps the petrol models have more room to work in this area?

The sensor lead is held by two intermediate brackets to the suspension leg and the upper control arm. On both sides the rusted thread onto the UCA sheared off but this is easily fixed by gently hammering out the remaining thread, as it's merely pressed into the arm... you can then reassemble using a replacement 6mm thread/10mm AF nut and bolt.
 
Thanks, the new sensor loom has been in place for a while as I thought I may as well do the hard work first, and it is a tight squeeze to reach the top connector.

No problem with the restraining harness bolts either, this car does look as though it has been well looked after, (before I got hold of her), another reason why I am surprised about the other threads on ust/corroded frames/arches.

Petrol was the original lubricant, 30/70 mix with diesel which I use on almost all other vehicles, the cleaner is spray on engine degreasant (HyperClean not Gunk), turning milky in presence of water.

Now waiting for araldite to dry.
 
Does anyone have an idea of how big the hole under the hub is ?

If the removal process doesn't work out I am wondering if the remains might make their way out of their own accord (sic).
 
There's a steel shroud that you hammer inside the hub. There's a picture somewhere on my front lower ball joint thread. Should show you the size of everything. It's not at the bottom though, and doesn t leave much room.for any sizeable debris to get out.
 
From memory, it's not a hole. There's merely a tiny clearance gap where the drive shaft passes through the hub ***embly and a rotating 'guard' on the driveshaft butts up against a corresponding fixed flange on the inside of the hub ***embly, just behind the bearing. I'm pretty sure that fragments generated by sensor removal would become trapped, but dust and small pieces of swarf could probably be flushed out using WD40.

I wouldn't worry too much about small pieces of relatively soft plastic.
 
Problem is Jon, those magnet holding seals are only relatively soft plastic too.

C/H has nothing to lose here drilling it out this way. Just he knows if he does lose a big chunk down the hole, amd it doesnt come back out with vacuum cleaner, he's got to pull the hub out.
 
Thanks. Currently I have one big piec of plastic that freely moves in the hole, but may not come out of the sensor hole, nor can I safely break it up.

I was hoping that as a last resort if I push it down into the hub and go for a spin the gap between the bearing and the hub would chew it up and then could be flushed out, before I fit the newer sensor into the hole.
 
Hopefully this works....

Goodluckmonkey said:
Fortunately I take photos of everything.

Driving the new ball joint in is a pig, as you can't get on it straight (hence the marks in mine)
I used an old broken 1/2" extension bar with the end ground flat as a driver - you have to drive off the sides, which are solid, and not the thin centre section of the balljoint)



This is the ABS cover ring. It's important you pry this off from the outside. The bearing seal you can see is full of magnets, which are read by the wheel speed sensor. IF YOU DAMAGE IT YOU WILL NEED TO FIT A NEW WHEEL BEARING.

To refit it, you need to tickle it in from the flat inner section, else it'll just ping out the opposite side.



Clean driveshafts and grease here. (There were Honda service bulletins for both gen 6 and 7's on this) if you have clonky hubs when parking, but your joints are good, this is why.
On the picture above you can see where they make contact and have slight movement (the clunk you hear is if this bit's dry and has surface rust as there's a tiny bit of movement on the driveshaft splines. This surface needs to be clean too as per the driveshaft surface.
Use 120 grit emery paper. Do not over grease this, as you don't want it to splatter the ABS sensor.

 
Goodluckmonkey said:
Problem is Jon, those magnet holding seals are only relatively soft plastic too.
C/H has nothing to lose here drilling it out this way. Just he knows if he does lose a big chunk down the hole, amd it doesnt come back out with vacuum cleaner, he's got to pull the hub out.
I do agree, or he could just chance it. I'm mean, what would a garage do?
 
Channel Hopper said:
That makes me even less happy to take the hub apart
You don't need to do all those things to simply clean out any bits you need to get out! Matt's pictures merely illustrate the area under discussion. However it's still a big job that would give you peace of mind but, as I just said above, would a garage actually bother?

But maybe we are investigating here why sometimes sensors get replaced but the problem either remains or shortly returns?
 
Hahaha. They'd ruin it, then tell you your wheel.bearing's shot and you need to spend a grand on a whole new hub ***embly from honda.

I'm such a cynic :D
 
Jon_G said:
You don't need to do all those things to simply clean out any bits you need to get out! Matt's pictures merely illustrate the area under discussion. However it's still a big job that would give you peace of mind but, as I just said above, would a garage actually bother?

But maybe we are investigating here why sometimes sensors get replaced but the problem either remains or shortly returns?
Quite possibly.

All the reports of cheapo semsors not working could be attributable to sensor ring damage.

FWIW, my ABS sensors are £10 eBay cheapies and have worked perfectly for the last 25k.

That wheel bearing's something like £60, and (if you have the right socket and breaker bar - mine came to about £25 total) another 15 minutes work pulling out the hub (that's time saved on the drilling out) can be a good insurance.

When I did the 2nd one, I didn't even chance it, pulled the hub straight away and had it all back together and on it's feet inside an hour. Much less stressful.
 
I've used standard Araldite as opposed to the quick set stuff and the test sample indoors is only just curing. I will have one go late tonight at removal and report back.

One other thought is if the glue trick fails, to burn the remains out with a fine blowtorch (which I have). If it is uppermost in the hole then this would incinerate/burn away before any damage to the internals of the hub.
 
Cool. Good to know if you can get away with doing it this way round.
Not everyone's always prepared to strip the corner out if a car to replace a small sensor.
One of the big problems I had was getting my cordless drill on it square because the grip style chuck and the disc splash shield wanted to occupy the same space.
 
The hobbyist hand drill you can see in one of the early pictures has a very small chuck which made it idea to get up to the current stage.

Somewhere in my shed there is a Dremel which I would also consider using , if I could find it.
 
Just been out and the chopstick and glue hasn't shifted it.

So I'll look harder for the dremel tomorrow and prime the blowtorch for a last ditch attempt.
 
Could you chain drill a series of say 1.5mm blind holes and then glue a screwdriver in it so you could rotate it to 'break the seal' ?

Beyond that, i cant imagine getting it shifted wothout breaking through?
 
I might try that later this morning but I think the bit that remains in the hole is already loose enough that it is spinning.

Are the bearing magnets on the outside surface, directly below the hole or just in the near vicinity ? If I know where they are I could consider other actions to avoid damage.

Blowtorch is primed though, I will be testing how resiliant the material is to burning on the main piece of sensor that came off with the loom in about an hour.
 
The ring with magnets is on the inner face of the wheel bearing, so is at right angles to the centre line of the hole you're drilling (but actually right next to the hole, as the clearance between the ring and the flat end of the sensor is little more than a millimetre). Ideally you'd be best to drill with the drill leaning outward, resulting in the drill bit moving away from the sensitive ring, but the disc and splash shield do rather prevent this.

Someone with a CR-V on the Civinfo forum is having a similar battle... http://www.civinfo.com/forum/wheels-tyres-suspension-brakes/357081-aftermarket-abs-sensors.html
 
Looks like burning is the way to go. The material surrounding the sensor components is thermoplastic in nature and melts after just a short burst of focused flame.

http://www.imagebam.com/image/b3494c546403241

So next stage is to try it for real. With the car in neutral I can spin the axle on this side to keep any heat build up dispersed so not to damage the important bits. I'm hoping I might be able to pick out most of the remaining debris with the tweezers if I can.
 
This is like watching someone make a scientific discovery. Really like your ****ytical approach C/H.

I Just wail on things with a hammer till they come apart, then replace the bits I break.

I'm cheering you on with every post.
 
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