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Wheel Tracking

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Having loads of problems with the car pulling to one side and taking the edges off the tyres and wondered if anybody had any pointers:

Few months ago I had the winter tyres swapped for summer ones and straight away it felt like it was pulling to the left. About to go on holiday so quickly took it to a local garage who checked the tracking and they said it was in spec so left it.

Did over 1,000 miles on holiday and came back to see the edges had been taken off both front tyres so took it back to another garage with higher spec kit who said the tracking was miles out and so adjusted it and it looked right but still feels like pulling to the left.

Swapped tyres front to back and no difference. Checked all tyres pressures and fine.

Just been out to swap the front tyres from side to side and found the inside edge going on the offside so something not right!

Can't find any movement in either front suspension so at a bit of a loss !!

Any help appreciated!
 
I would have said rear tracking too but IIRC your Accord is Tourer. There is still some slight adjustment available in one axis on the Tourer rears, note that the saloon needs Hunter 4-wheel alignment btw.
 
This is from the ESM , note that Rear Toe Adjustment is on Saloon

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Front Caster Inspection
Raise the front of the vehicle, and remove the wheel caps.

  1. NOTE: Push out the cap on the aluminum wheel from the inside after removing the wheel.

  2. Set the turning radius gauges beneath the front wheels, and place boards under the rear wheels the same thickness as the turning radius gauges, then lower the vehicle.
    NOTE: Be sure that the vehicle is level with the wheels on the turning radius gauges and boards.
  3. Install the wheel alignment gauge attachment and camber/caster gauge on the wheel hub, and apply the front brake.
  4. Turn the front wheel 20 ° outward, then turn the adjusting screw of the camber/caster gauge to set the bubble at 0 °.

  5. Turn the wheel 20 ° inward and read the caster on the gauge with the bubble at the center of the gauge. If the caster angle is not within the specification, check for bent or damaged suspension components.


    Front caster angle:

    3 ° 12 '±45 '






Front Camber Inspection
  1. Turn the front wheels to the straight ahead position.

  2. Raise the front of the vehicle, and remove the wheel caps.
    NOTE: Push out the cap on the aluminum wheel from the inside after removing the wheel.
  3. Install the wheel alignment gauge attachment and camber/caster gauge on the wheel hub.

  4. Read the camber angle on the gauge with the bubble at the center of the gauge. If the camber angle is not within the specification, check for bent or damaged suspention components.


    Front camber angle:

    0 ° 00 '±45 '






Rear Camber Inspection

  1. Raise the rear of the vehicle, and remove the wheel caps.
    NOTE: Push out the cap on the aluminum wheel from the inside after removing the wheel.
  2. Install the wheel alignment gauge attachment and camber/caster gauge on the wheel hub.

  3. Read the camber angle on the gauge with the bubble at the center of the gauge. If the camber angle is not within the specification, check for bent or damaged suspension components.


    Rear camber angle:

    −1 ° 00 '±30 '






Front Toe Inspection/Adjustment
  1. Center the steering wheel spokes.

  2. Check the toe. If it is not within the specification, go to Step 3 .


    Front toe-in:

    0±2 mm (0±0.08 in.)


  3. Loosen the locknut while holding the tie-rod end.

    Be sure that the hold the tie-rod end with a wrench.


  4. Turn the rack end until the toe is correct.
    NOTE: Adjust both the right and left wheels at the same time by the same amount in opposite directions to obtain the correct toe and to keep the steering wheel straight.
  5. After adjusting, tighten the locknut while holding the tie-rod end. Make sure the toe setting does not change.





Rear Toe Inspection/Adjustment
  1. Release the parking brake.

  2. Check the toe. If it is not within the specification, go to Step 3 .


    Rear toe-in:

    2±2 mm (0.08±0.08 in.)

  3. Loosen the self-locking nut while holding the adjusting bolt.

  4. Replace the self-locking nut with a new one, and lightly tighten it.
    NOTE: Always use a new self-locking nut whenever it has been loosened.
  5. Turn the adjusting bolt until the toe is correct.
  6. Tighten the self-locking nut to the specified torque while holding the adjusting bolt.





Turning Angle Inspection

  1. Raise the vehicle and set the turning radius gauges beneath the front wheels, and place boards under the rear wheels the same thickness as the turning radius gauges, then lower the vehicle.
    NOTE: Be sure that the vehicle is level with the wheels on the turning radius gauges and boards.

  2. Turn the steering wheel fully to the right and left while applying the brake, and check the turning angles of both front wheels. If the turning angle is not within the specification or the inward turning angles differ between the right and left, go to Step 3 .


    Turning angle:



    Inward:

    38 ° 50 '±2 °



    Outward:

    31 ° 40 ' (reference)

  3. Check the toe. If it is correct but the turning angle is not within the specification, check for bent or damaged suspension components.
 
I think it likely that there is a worn bush or balljoint that is preventing the tracking from being correctly set when static (once the car moves the alignment shifts because of movement in the suspension geometry).

My guesses would be either the compliance bush at the front of the lower suspension arm (easy to see with the front wheels on lock) or the lower suspension ball joints (actually quite hard to check as the excessive movement can be sideways rather than up/down and can even be missed by MoT testers).
 
^ wot he said

which may also affect the camber ? (and I don't think that camber gets checked unless it's a Hunter laser system)
 
As per Jon's suggestion.

For there to be any considerable variation, you'd need a significant amount of movement at a joint, which would point to the front Lower Control Arm (LCA) bushes.

Drive the car with your hands off the wheel, and accelerate/decelerate.

If it pulls left when you let off the gas or touch the brakes, your probably looking at the forward nearside one being knackered.
Nearside stuff typically wears sooner due to being dragged through the potholes in the gutter.

Always best to change everything as pairs though, and fortunately a pair of LCAs for one of these doesn't break the bank.

Would also explain why it destroys tyres too, as it'll toe out under conditions where you're not accelerating.
 
I replaced both bottom suspension arms with new less than 6 months ago due to an MOT failure so confident these are fine.
 
For it to be wrong enough to wreck tyres so quickly, it must really be toe-ing out.

Unless you either run loads of negative camber, or go round corners like you're Colin mcrae.
 
One point to note is that there was a recall on the rear arms on the pre-facelift Tourers , although I can't see that affecting the front.

But even thought it's a Tourer, take it to somewhere that has Hunter 4-wheel laser inspection system, ask them if they can check camber all round as well as caster and toe on the front.
 
Yeah place I used before uses a full four wheel laser system. Going tomorrow for another check.

Playing around on the drive home I can vary the amount of pull from none to heavy based on hard acceleration and braking.

It's worst at light speeds and light acceleration / braking.

The offside wheel must be toeing out as it's taken the inside edge off this!
 
I'd be checking the inner and outer track rod ends on the right hand side first.

Undo the outer track rod end and see if you can feel the slack in the inner track rod joint at the rack.

A tight joint will hold itself up, whereas a slack joint will fall and slap the subframe.

If they've not noticed it, when stopped with the brake on the ramp, it'd compress the slack joint and if they then have to screw the track rods out, they'd never notice the slack.
 
I disconnected the offside track rod end but could not feel any play anywhere.

Then took it back for another tracking check and was slightly out but nowhere near enough to cause the tyre damage that I've been seeing. Mechanic then had a good look round and the only thing he found was of the of the bushes in the nearside bottom arm was showing signs of distress and was off centre compared to the offside.

Near side

IMG_0054_zpsck40fsce.jpg


Off-side
IMG_0055_zpsj1kitko3.jpg


Both of these arms were new in January this year so should be equal and so could be a defective part.

Unsure if this will be causing the problems but needs to be sorted before we look at anything else.

Spoken to the place I got the arms from and they are sourcing a replacement so fingers crossed.
 
Thats pic's showing the nearside arm twice.

That bush is squashed where its supporting the weight of the car via the strut. Shouldn't affect the geometry.

May be worth looking of the petrol and diesel have different length arms, as this sometimes happens due to different gearbox and subframe configurations.

If you have longer arms on it for example, you'll never get the the alignment right and it'll scrub tyres through camber wear and incorrect caster changes and ackerman when you steer.
 
If you do replace the lower arms (again) then do carefully check the lower ball joints while disconnected (should seem stiff, not floppy). Don't give them the benefit of the doubt, I did that and they failed the next MoT!
 
btw, the procedure for swapping wheels when checking a vehicle that pulls to left or right, is to swap over the front wheels L<-->R first to see if the pull changes direction. If it doesn't the the issue is in the suspension/steering setup. If it does, then the issue is in the tyres.
 
We're the upper control arms checked too?

And camber within spec?
 
Goodluckmonkey said:
We're the upper control arms checked too?

And camber within spec?
I keep going on about camber LOL

and caster


but whenever you take the car somewhere for tracking & alignment checks, as with regassing of aircon, you're in the lap of the gods as to the competence of the person doing it

IMO the front suspension on these cars is far too finicky for a bog-standard road-car
 
Yeah, something's obviously changing when it's in motion.

Could be something daft like a front LCA bush fitted 90° out so it's compliant in the wrong direction, or there's some slack somewhere that can't be found.

I'd have ripped the whole front end out and replaced everything by now, which is in fact what I did when I did my LCAs getting on for 2 years ago, then set the tracking up with two lengths of timber a tape measure and a couple of small ramps so i could slide under the car.

Drives great, Wears tyres evenly, and I doubt I'll ever need to do it again.
 
Replaced the nearside LCA where the bush looked suspect. Still feels like it's pulling to the left but getting it tracked again tonight so will see where we are.

Not overly confident this will fix it ! :unsure:

Struggling after that. Next thought is take it to an MOT station with shaker plates and see if we can find what is moving !
 
I know you swapped wheels front to back, but it's worth swapping the front wheels over and see if that makes a difference, you never know until you try.
 
Just run around with 15 psi in the offside tyre. It'll even it out.
 
freddofrog said:
I know you swapped wheels front to back, but it's worth swapping the front wheels over and see if that makes a difference, you never know until you try.
Already tried that as well and still pulls left !!
 
N/s/r control arm not flapping round or toe-ing in massively?
 
Tracking re-done and was out as expected with new arm. Going to run it for a few days and if no improvement then will will get rear checked
 
If putting a new arm in it has changed it significantly, that's something, as it shouldn't have changed it.
 
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