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Rattling Noise From Engine

Motorhate

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Location
London / Kent
Car
Honda Accord CDTI
I've started noticing a rattling noise coming from the engine on my 2005 CDTi. When I start up, the rattle is quite loud for about 1-2 seconds then it settles down to sounding like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25DRM4Tcp0U

The oil levels are fine, there are no warning lights (engine, oil etc.) and there is no loss of power. Timing chain was changed around a year ago along with the engine rebuild.
The fact it's quite loud for 1-2 seconds then settles down makes me think it could be an oil distribution problem but really not sure. Any ideas?

*edit* - I'll see if I can film it starting up and the noise it makes.
 
Sounds a lot like a chain to me.

Did they change both timing and pump chains, and replace the tensioners with the new hydraulic type?
 
I thought the timing chain was connected to the oil pump? Could be wrong but either way, that was changed along with the tensioners too (according to the garage).
 
It has two separate chains. It's actually the shorter pump / balance shaft chain that's the one that gives the trouble.

Sounds like loads of chain slap though, so maybe a tensioner's failed?
 
Unfortunately I think this will end up being a classic case of only half a job was done last time.
 
Would a tensioner failure mean a rattle for a few seconds only though ?
Unless it is the individual driven components getting up to speed I would think the first move would be to check bolts that hold something down, a cover, harness or a pulley.
 
Here's another video that shows the noise from inside and the louder rattling on startup

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YS0yQejpF00
 
I'm thinking it's a tensioner... Although driven by oil pressure, there is also a spring to take up the slack before the oil pressure has built. If the spring breaks then there is inadequate tensioning effort at start up.

It's possible to replace the cam chain tensioner through a removable inspection plate on the chain cover.

I've heard worse...
 
Thanks Jon, that's a great help.

How long have I got? Will I explode myself if I use it for another week or so? I'm going to find it difficult to get the car back to the engine place that did the work originally.
 
Motorhate said:
Thanks Jon, that's a great help.

How long have I got? Will I explode myself if I use it for another week or so? I'm going to find it difficult to get the car back to the engine place that did the work originally.
That is a very big question!

I don't actually know what's wrong with your engine, my suggestion was merely speculation based on my previous experience of replacing my own chains and tensioners... this doesn't make me any sort of expert in all matters of horrible engine noises. But it does sound like a tensioner fault to me, and tensioners are known to fail on Honda engines (the spring failure is a known k series problem). My tensioner springs seemed ok, so I reused the camchain tensioner to save money, and I admit that maybe I was wrong to do this?

Maybe the guy who replaced your chains (did he actually do both?) also saved money by reusing the old tensioners? They are very expensive... the oil pump/balancer chain tensioner that I did replace cost me £155! I think you should ask him.
 
Being a pre-facelift car, it'd have the old type tensioners that were all superseded, hence me asking in my original reply. You can easily get to the inspection cover for the timing chain tensioner just by removing the o/s front wheel.

N22a2 https://imgur.com/gallery/UsiCP

However getting to the pump chain tensioner cover's not as straightforward.
 
Goodluckmonkey said:
Being a pre-facelift car, it'd have the old type tensioners that were all superseded, hence me asking in my original reply. You can easily get to the inspection cover for the timing chain tensioner just by removing the o/s front wheel.

N22a2 https://imgur.com/gallery/UsiCP

However getting to the pump chain tensioner cover's not as straightforward.
In many ways the original (pre-facelift) tensioner was a superior design... it featured a ratchet that was meant to prevent the tensioner plunger returning fully home when the oil pressure dropped, but the ratchet fails and the small internal spring isn't up to the job on its own. The revised tensioner is fully floating (no ratchet) but has a much stronger spring. Pictures I've seen suggest that the K-series engine continues to use the ratchet type?

I replaced my pump chain tensioner when I fitted the new chain simply because it can't easily be replaced at a later date should it fail.
 
Jon_G said:
I'm thinking it's a tensioner... Although driven by oil pressure, there is also a spring to take up the slack before the oil pressure has built. If the spring breaks then there is inadequate tensioning effort at start up.

It's possible to replace the cam chain tensioner through a removable inspection plate on the chain cover.

I've heard worse...
Take a bow mate. Your diagnosis was spot on. It looks like it's one of the springs on the tensioner has packed up. Being replaced under warranty but they can't fit me in until September :(

They said they're going to replace the chain and tensioner too as it comes as part of a kit.
 
Motorhate said:
Take a bow mate. Your diagnosis was spot on. It looks like it's one of the springs on the tensioner has packed up. Being replaced under warranty but they can't fit me in until September :(

They said they're going to replace the chain and tensioner too as it comes as part of a kit.
I know it's only 3 weeks away but that is awful. I'd be inclined to push them a bit on that otherwise consequential damage could be through the roof.
 
Motorhate said:
Take a bow mate. Your diagnosis was spot on. It looks like it's one of the springs on the tensioner has packed up. Being replaced under warranty but they can't fit me in until September :(

They said they're going to replace the chain and tensioner too as it comes as part of a kit.
Actually, the tensioner is available separately (I bought mine from Holdcroft Honda, but the chains from a Febi agent). And replacing the chain is a lengthy task, unlike the tensioner.

How was it diagnosed?
 
Pottermus said:
I know it's only 3 weeks away but that is awful. I'd be inclined to push them a bit on that otherwise consequential damage could be through the roof.
An excellent point!
 
Not sure how they diagnosed it, just rang me up and told me. I'm ***uming they've removed the cover and checked the tensioner.

I did stress that the timing chain is now at risk but they've ***ured me that any issues that may arise are fully covered by them (as the previous work is still under warranty).
 
Something just doesn't ring true with this for me. Brand new Honda parts don't just fail like this and combined with a vague diagnosis method I'm thinking there may be more than meets the eye. Perhaps I'm just being paranoid.
 
Pottermus said:
Something just doesn't ring true with this for me. Brand new Honda parts don't just fail like this and combined with a vague diagnosis method I'm thinking there may be more than meets the eye. Perhaps I'm just being paranoid.
I've already speculated that they didn't bother to replace the relatively expensive tensioner... I'm sticking with that suggestion!
 
Not sure if they've used genuine parts during the original work they did. I'll ask them when I pick the car up.
 
To clatify, it was a Honda dealer that did the work?
 
Well this independent is doing a bundle for your faith isn't it lol.
 
To be honest, they do have a good reputation and they are good at communicating and are quite reasonable price-wise. I've heard some horror stories about engine specialists (especially in London) so I'd rather stick with this lot (for now anyway!).
 
Good morning Motorhate,


I have the same noise as yours, noise at the start and noise in the chain.

Did you solve the problem? Have any parts changed again?

I am thinking of changing the distribution kit and oil kit, or only the distribution tensioner and not opening the engine.


A greeting.
 
Hello mate, it turned out to be a spring on one of the tensioners. The whole timing chain was stretched quite badly so the chain and tensioners were all replaced.
 
Great glad all sorted how much did
That set you back?

Sent from my LG-K100 using Tapatalk
 
They replaced it free of charge as it was under warranty when the engine was rebuilt. They replaced the who thing, chain and tensioners.
 
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