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VTC Actuator Problem?

VTC actuator fault rattle loud

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#1 strockus

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Posted 15 August 2017 - 08:23 AM

Hi All,

 

So, when I start my car cold it gives out this loudish sort of diesel-like rallte for the first 1-2s and nothing else afterwards. I found a few videos online of honda owners having similar problems and apparently it is an issue with the VTC actuator. I know I didn't give a lot of info but is that possible? How would I need to check or is it for a mechanic to do? Also, what is the angle of the stock VTC that goes into a 2.4 7th gen accord?

 

Thanks in advance guys



#2 freddofrog

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Posted 15 August 2017 - 09:12 AM

I've seen those vids as well 

 

Accord 

https://youtu.be/i71NSY1I0iw?t=25s

 

on a CR-V

 

 

Note that those are in the USA, where Accord is not same there as here. However, the engines are same gens, and although it seems to be on the "8th gens" (K24Z engine), I think it can also affect the K24A engine as well.  But it could also be an issue with the chain tensioner on a K24A .

 

IIRC it's about 25 degrees advance 


Edited by freddofrog, 15 August 2017 - 09:15 AM.


#3 strockus

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Posted 15 August 2017 - 04:07 PM

Wouldn't a chain tensioner be a continuous sound? Mind is literally like in the videos that you have linked. It just goes 'diesel mode' when I start it cold, not every single time, for 1-2 seconds and that's it. I'll try and record it and link the video. Just want to be sure what I need to change before I actually change it.



#4 freddofrog

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Posted 15 August 2017 - 05:41 PM

AFAIK the tensioner on the 2.4 petrol is same as on the 2.2 diesel, and Jon_G says that the tensioner on the 2.2 diesel has a spring as well as being hydraulically operated. Over time the spring weakens and so the chain can rattle until hydraulic pressure is sufficient.


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#5 Jon_G

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Posted 15 August 2017 - 05:54 PM

What oil are you using?

 

An oil with too high a cold start rating could cause the oil pressure to suffer a delay on cold starting and so might affect either the hydraulically-driven chain tensioner or the VTC actuator?

 

I'm also wondering if that noise could be the starter motor failing to disengage quickly?

 

EDIT: Here's another US example suggesting the VTC actuator...

https://www.youtube....h?v=TM96ks7gDBI


Edited by Jon_G, 15 August 2017 - 05:56 PM.

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#6 strockus

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Posted 16 August 2017 - 12:01 PM

I'm using a 5W30 right now. Also, I still need to change my starter as I know it's going bad from the fox-like scream that it makes from time to time. I have it I just didn't get to changing it as it is a big pain to do... I should probably change it and see if I'm still having the same issue. That video sounded more like a starter issue to me though, but I'm not a mechanic so who am I to judge. Mine does sound similar to what Freddo posted though.


Edited by strockus, 16 August 2017 - 12:04 PM.


#7 freddofrog

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Posted 16 August 2017 - 12:10 PM

0w30 , even 0w20, on the2.4

But I don't think it will make much difference because the noise usually happens in the morning, usually random with no correlation with the weather



#8 strockus

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Posted 17 August 2017 - 12:50 PM

I will get the starter replaced and see if there are any improvements. Will post and let you guys know.


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#9 brett

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Posted 18 August 2017 - 07:02 AM

Iv had this from day 1 on my 8th gen.
I'm with Jon with the starter motor over running and not disengage.
If you let the key go as soon as the car fires up you don't get the noise.
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#10 strockus

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Posted 18 August 2017 - 08:31 AM

Iv had this from day 1 on my 8th gen.
I'm with Jon with the starter motor over running and not disengage.
If you let the key go as soon as the car fires up you don't get the noise.

Ahhh. I'll have to try that. I'm no mechanic but I assumed that if there was a problem with the VTC actuator it would be a constant, every start up sound. It does not happen on every start up though and maybe it is because I let go of the key as soon as it starts. As I mentioned earlier, I will be changing my starter motor on Monday so will post and let you guys know if the sound is gone or not.



#11 freddofrog

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Posted 18 August 2017 - 09:39 AM

AFAIK the VTC issue is only on K-series engines on cars in the US, but that doesn't mean that some other K-series engines will get it.

 

But if it's not the starter motor then the next easiest thing to change is the chain tensioner.



#12 strockus

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Posted 22 August 2017 - 08:11 AM

Well, changed the starter and I don't think the sound was there this morning nor it was there yesterday when starting the car after not driving it the whole day. I will give it a few more days to solidify the verdict but now it looks like the issue might have been dealt with. I will let you guys know if I hear any more sounds. 


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#13 strockus

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Posted 11 September 2017 - 03:03 PM

UPDATE: The sound seems to be back now so not sure what to try next. I feel like I should try the chain tensioner next and if that doesn't fix the issue I might need to move to the VTC actuator.



#14 Jon_G

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Posted 11 September 2017 - 05:56 PM

That's bad news then!



#15 freddofrog

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Posted 11 September 2017 - 07:32 PM

UPDATE: The sound seems to be back now so not sure what to try next. I feel like I should try the chain tensioner next and if that doesn't fix the issue I might need to move to the VTC actuator.

Correct (and for future reference, the sound doesn't ever resemble a starter motor failing to disengage)



#16 strockus

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Posted 12 September 2017 - 08:08 AM

Correct (and for future reference, the sound doesn't ever resemble a starter motor failing to disengage)

Well it needed a change anyway so it didn't hurt to get the motor replaced!  :D



#17 Mr Honda

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Posted 12 September 2017 - 10:15 AM

Would the VTC be active during start up?? When was the last time your car had valve adjustment done??



#18 freddofrog

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Posted 12 September 2017 - 10:28 AM

There's a TSB (09-010) on US Accords and apparently it can affect K24's on other cars



#19 strockus

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Posted 12 September 2017 - 11:01 AM

Would the VTC be active during start up?? When was the last time your car had valve adjustment done??

I am not sure about the valve adjustment. I got the car in December. If servicing is part of it then it should have been done August last year but if not then don't really know. Could that be part of the issue?

 

There's a TSB (09-010) on US Accords and apparently it can affect K24's on other cars

Yeah, I saw that as well. When looking at the videos and the way the car rattles it's like 2 water drops, literally the same sound, for the same amount of time which lead me to the conclusion that it might be the actuator but I'll have to check it first. Don't want to spend money where it is not needed.



#20 freddofrog

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Posted 12 September 2017 - 01:28 PM

When looking at the videos and the way the car rattles it's like 2 water drops, literally the same sound, for the same amount of time which lead me to the conclusion that it might be the actuator

if it's not like the sounds in #2, then going by your "water drops" description it could be lots of other things

 

Try it with the auxiliary belt removed and see if the sound stops. If the sound is still there and you're sure it's not the starter, then there are still several other causes.

 

Might be best to get a video up.


Edited by freddofrog, 12 September 2017 - 01:59 PM.






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