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2.2 ctdi noise and smoke cloud. May be a goner.

Sichedelic

Sichedelic

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Location
South london
Car
Accord 2.2ctdi
Started up my much loved 05 tourer this morning and it started not running right /misfiring coupled with a terible whine from left side of engine. Drove it 500 meters and on acceleration it made a huge cloud of white smoke.
I am thinking timing chain because of the noise. Or injection pump.
Does anyone have any ideas. I am hoping that this is not terminal
 
That's true.
Almost certainly not cost effective to fix as they are so cheap.
Maybe a complete engine swap would allow me to re place the clutch. Timing chain and turbo all in one go.
Anyone tried this
 
Manged to drive home in a huge cloud of white smoke.
Have attached a video
Does anyone have any views on what the cause is.
 
I would like to build up a replacement engine with a new clutch and dmf.
A new timing chain etc
And.possibly a stage 1 remap.
Am I mad.
Many thanks
 
White smoke is usually a fuelling issue, Where does the squealing come from? Is it a belt slipping or is it something else?
Get close to the engine and use a long screwdriver to find the source.
 
Really sounds like the timing chain or oil pump chain.
I don't know exactly how this engine works.
Do these chains run the injection pump.
Is it possible to get it out of time withough destroying the engine.
It won't accelerate almost at all. Does sound like it's fuel related.
Manythanks. Si
 
Thanks for your reply. Very helpful
I thought it ran off the cam.
That's why I find it odd that a chain failure causes fueling issues.
I previously had an 04 ctdi that had chain failure. It made a hole in the sump and caused a massive oil leak.
It displayed in a similar way. No smoke but ultimately no fuel either. If it hadn't been for the leak I may have thought it was a fueling issue.
Does anyone have any experience of chains failing on the ctdi.is this normal
Thanks again
 
​
​The whine I would have said was an alternator bearing, but on that side of the motor you have the air con pump, power steering pump, alternator, the jockey wheel , adjuster for the belt, the oil chain or the cam timing chain., and or any or the chain guides inside the timing chain case. horrendous eh ??? what to pick.

I could only say let it run for while and see if any of the above get overly hot to the touch.
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​Mine ran like a pig with a cam chain stretch of two teeth until they were changed, (bought as a basket case) but never had any white smoke symptoms as you have.

White smoke on a diesel is usually a sign of non ignition, ie compressed but non ignited fuel.May be a just a failed jammed open injector, and or timing fault (chain) but the whine is the major item.Sorry I can't point to a definate solution for you.T.J.
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P.S just remembered, if you start the engine without the serpentine belt on and the screeching stops, you then know its something being driven by it, that is the cause of the screech.

If its still noisy, its something else probably as you suspect from inside the timing chain case.

T.J.
 
Thanks for your input.
Have finally found time to have a look in daylight.
I now think it's turbo failure.
None of the things I thought it was sound bad with a screw driver to the ear.
The turbo sounds terrible.
I have only experienced silent turbo failure before.
Why does it smoke so ?
Think I am about to take it off.
Problem is the car needs a clutch.
This may take a while
 
Noise will be
1) Bearing failure or
2) rotor imbalance.

2) will lead to 1) unless picked up very early.

You might be - very - lucky by draining the engne oil, cleaning out the turbo feed pipes and running in gently, but the odds are against you.
 
After a very cold day spannering I have the turbo on the bench.
The rotor has tried to escape. The nut which locates it came out separately.
The rotor is about at inch into the outlet with all its fins ground off.
What a mess.
Should I chance a second hand one or spend the extra.
While I am in I need to look at the leaky manifold.
Have diesel fumes in the ventilation system when not on re cerculate.
Is this normally the gasket or a cracked manifold. Hard to tell.
Also any tips for the clutch.
Looks a bit tricky.
Many thanks
 
Gasket should be fine, the manifold itself cracks. The heat shield will have 3 bolts on it if its the original one, 2 if it has been updated.
Apparently even the updated part fails eventually as well. Spurious ones are 80-90 on a well known auction site.
You may as well do the manifold if the turbo is off.
 
Have taken the original manifold off.
3 bolt version.
Cracked both sides on the weld.
I will order a cheap one.
Do you know if you can bodge the heat shield by drilling new holes as someone suggests or do I need to get one separately.
Thanks
 
I don't have a 2 bolt one and intend on making the 3 bolt fit, its only a couple of holes and they should be easy to drill.
 
Turbo failure is common on diesels you have 2 options replace with second hand or get turbo specialist to rebuild current turbo, you can drive car but will feel gutless.

Sent from my LG-K100 using Tapatalk
 
Surely the replacement costs of the turbo, manifold and clutch (plus possibly the DMF) will be around double the value of the car?
 
Including labour it is not cost effective you are correct.
As I am doing it myself it is ok.
So far £60 second hand turbo.
£80 exhaust manifold.
I am not sure if I should attempt the clutch myself.
It doesn't look all that difficult just time consuming.
I am worried about the cruise control swith adjustment and the special loading tool honda use to fit the clutch.
I hope the dmf will be ok. Have read about the tolerance and it seemed ok (no shudder) but only getting it appart will tell.
Has anyone done one themselves.
A local clutch place would do it without dmf for £420 Inc.
The exhaust manifold heat sheild with 3 holes fits the 2 hole manifold I have bought. Just no middle bolt.
thanks for your help
 
Have now fitted my budget manifold and pre loved turbo .
Would not recommend the manifold.
It is thicker so meaning the manifold studs are not long enough.
Phoned around but could not source longer honda studs.
I unwound all the studs from the block and refitted with stud and bearing locktite not all the way in then torqued up to 33ft/lb with the replacement nuts.
With hindsight I should have got a second hand manifold.
Turbo went on ok.
Started her up in a cloud of smoke.
Once I had bured the oil out of the exhaust she runs ok.
Went for a motorway drive.
Manifold leak fixed.
Turbo performance good
Then as I wound it up to 100 engine management light and limp home mode.
Max 2k revs.
Upon restarting she go's ok but still has the light on.
I will get it plugged in tomorrow and see.
It felt like it was stugging for fuel
So I am thinking fuel pressure
Any ideas.
Thanks guys
 
See what the error is then decide. Good work though, well done for doing it yourself.
 
Thats a concern that the studs aren't long enough, which vendor did you get yours from? Some supply studs as well but I don't know if they are longer than the originals.
 
I just had a little look at the part numbers for the studs,
The ones on the PFL are 90026-RBD-E01 BOLT, STUD, 10 X 46.5
The Facelift ones are listed as 90026-RMA-E01 BOLT, STUD, 10 X 48.5
So the later ones are 2mm longer, I don't know if thats enough extra for the spurious Manifold?
 
Hello
Thanks for your input
I ordered the manifold from eurocatz.
contrary to what I said the heat shield does not fit without modification.
The hole spacing is correct but it fouls on the turbo.
I ground some away to make it fit, not difficult, a pain though to wiggle it in and out 3 times.
The studs needed to be 5mm longer minimum. so the later ones would not do it.
I phoned honda to see if the post facelift had longer studs but they were not helpful.

When I first started it after fitting the manifold there were bubbles coming from the manifold gasket. I thought that it had not sealed.
After a heat cycle I sprayed with lots of wd40 to try and recreate the bubbles but there were none.
It appeared to be ok.

Is this normal ? or is the gasket rubbish?
I concluded that it did not leak as before due to no in car diesel fumes, I did have in car wd40 fumes.

Unfortunately my local mechanic forgot to bring his code reader today.
I am getting someone else to do it today for £20 about 3pm I will have to wait

I will keep you posted
many thanks. Si

Could anyone recommend a code reader / dongle/ lead and software which is cheap and suitable for this vehicle so I can do this myself
 
Thats the same manifold I have and haven't got around to fitting yet, I might look into getting the manifold machined down by 5mm on the mounts to ease installation.
That or fitting custom made steel longer studs.
These multilayer steel gaskets commonly have a coating/coatings that seal with heat and pressure, If its not leaking it probably works.
Good to know about the heatshield, its only light sheet metal so should be easy to cut.
Thanks for your feedback, its valuable for others that are going to do this as well.
 
Hello again.
I have just received my obd11 dongle and read the codes.
I only have the 4
P1236 over boost ?
P0113 airflow sensor
P1384 glow plugs
P16a4 ecu related

Argh

I looked up the threads on this site and have read up

The air sensor is likely because I forgot to connect the maf before starting.

The over boost fault sounds like the one that caused my problem.

The boost pressure goes up with revs and at 4k (stationery ) it's saying 17.1 psi

Any idea what it should be

I guess the second hand turbo was a mistake.

The other ones I did not expect
Glow plugs or relay (possibly disturbed during works
Ecu ?

Does anyone have any advise on where to start.
I will try and blank the codes and see what re appears.

Many thanks
 
Did you clean out the oil pipes, and blowthrough the complete feed system inside the pre-loved turbocharger before reassembly ?

It is worth doing this two or three times just to clear the bearing structures of any deposits from the earlier delivery system.
 
It's more likely the vanes are sticking open a bit too long, or you have a boost leak somewhere.

If the secondhand turbo is from a breakers then they're often left out in the elements and sometimes some rust build up can cause this. I would ensure your actuator has full free range of movement by hand and then keep driving with wide open throttle to ensure it's getting a chance to bed in and clean itself out. It'll probably be fine eventually.
 
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