Timing Chain Kits

Hi

Have read a lot about doing the job and having done so, I am not looking forward to doing the job myself!!

Haven't read much about the actual bits themselves.

Have seen this kit. Supposed to be genuine Honda
Has anyone used it and if so is it any good??

https://www.tegiwaimports.com/genuine-honda-civic-accord-2-2-ctdi-diesel-timing-chain-kit.html


Also seen this kit.
https://www.autodoc.co.uk/japanparts/11563875

If it is any good it seems a good price.

Lastl if I may pick someones brains
What gaskets do I need to buy or are the joints all made with Liquid Gasket?

Cheers

My cam chain had stretched two teeth off the timing mark, the oil chain did not look so bad.

Apparently from what I have read, it's the oil chain that goes and does the damage, so I took no chances and did that too.

I have installed the first kit on your list , https://www.tegiwaimports.com/genuine-honda-civic-accord-2-2-ctdi-diesel-timing-chain-kit.html only because the components are all Honda parts, that come in Honda packaging.

At the time I did it this was cheaper than buying all the parts individually from Honda, don't know about at the moment. I imagine you'd still be in front cost wise with this kit.

It has been on the car three years now , and have not experienced any problems so far.

The sprockets were not too bad on mine so I did not replace them, but you can only tell once you have the timing cover off, the second kit would suit if you needed the sprockets, but looks like it may be missing a tensioner, at least in the photo of the product.

Once you've taken the chain cover off, you will know more, but even at high mileage 143k when I changed mine, and considering what a true ball ache it was, I personally would not consider putting anything but Honda parts in any way.

It's a lot of work to install parts that may or may not be suitable, but budgets only go so far as I appreciate.

All liquid gasket for the chain cover, I put a new rocker cover gasket on too which will also need a few dabs of liquid gasket in certain places, around the posts for the injector bolt threads if I remember correctly, and on the facecorners of the chain cover/rocket cover

I printed the guide from the Honda ESM and followed it religiously.

If you do it yourself and are confident enough, take your time and you will be ok.

I would recommend you get someone to help you reinstall the rocker cover, it's more fiddly to put back on, on your own, plus it will have liquid gasket on it that you may catch on something and smudge it off.

You will only know when you have put it all back together it fires up and it starts pouring oil out. Don't ask me how I know.

You don't want anything dropping off onto the camshaft thats going to block oil-ways.
.
Good luck with it.

T.J.

Hi Trollyjack

Many thanks for your reply. Much appreciated.

Sounds as if you changed yours just in time!!

I have read that some remove the injectors and some don't. Having not started the job yet I can't understand why it is necessary to remove the injectors. Some don't, I understand. Having done the job is it essential or what.

I have also read that the engine mount has to be removed which necessitates the use of a hoist of some sorts. Did you use one or just support the engine from below.

Lastly, I have the ESM for the car but not the engine. I didn't think one was available Where can I find that. It would certainly come in handy.

Thanks again for your help.

Regards

Hello Chesjak

Yes ,I just managed to change them in time, although I did not particularly want to do the job myself. Some of the quotes for the job were nothing short of ridiculous, but considering the amount of fiddley faffing work involved after doing it myself, it's understandable.

Unfortunately you will NOT be able to remove the rocker cover gasket/liquid gasket on re ***embly without removing the injectors, no matter what you read, as the timing chain cover sits inside it. ( This may not apply to the newer diesel accords I can only refer to a 2004 mk7)

Yes the timing chain cover is not a separate item that can be removed on its own, as you will discover. liquid gasket on re ***embly

You will need an engine hoist ,chain and right size shackle to lift the divers side of the engine, so that you can get the sump off, the lip of which sits inside the sub frame.which also has to be dropped to wiggle the sump pan off.

Yes you guessed it you cannot simply unbolt the oil sump pan,and pull it off, another liquid gasket item on re ***embly

The guide I used was printed from the ESM , look for REPLACE CAM TIMING CHAIN, and print off all the relevant sections that it will guide you through to the point of changing the guide chain etc.

If you search in the ESM as I have said for replace cam timing chain, you will get a feel for how much work is involved, and if you think you can cope with it all .

It's not a job for the faint hearted, and you will need a good range of decent tools,wobble bars extensions etc and some extras like the crank pulley socket, hoist and a whole load a patience to get through it, but it is do able.

Have a good read through the process first, to see if if it's something you will be comfortable tackling yourself.

I'm not trying to be negative, nor to put you off, just being practical.

T.J.

I had mine replaced a year or so ago and ever since have suffered with a slight pull to the left when driving and after lots of searching I have found that the subframe is very sensitive to position and can be bolted back very slightly out of place which then puts the caster angle out which causes the pull.

I have even found a Honda service record on checking this and correcting it so make sure you mark up the position before dropping the subframe and make sure it goes back in the same place.

Hi again
Trolleyjack - you have certainly given me a lot to think about. It seem inconceivable that such a straight forward job should be made into a nightmare by bad design/build flaws.

When you say ""The guide I used was printed from the ESM , look for REPLACE CAM TIMING CHAIN"" - where can I find it??

I have got the parts coming today hopefully so will probably start the job next week after I have done a bit more research. I will let you know how I got on.

Do you mind if I come back to you if needs be?


Grayedout - Thanks for the tip. I'll try not to make the same mistake.

Hello Chesjak

to access diagrams for cam chain job:-

Set model year to your car year
set model code to CN2 if its a tourer
select shop manual
keyword input cam chain hit magnifing glass top left

Remember this is a Honda workshop manual for their mechanics and it ***umes that the engine will be lifted from the car in many respects this is the correct way to do it, If I were to do this job again I would lift the motor out completely it would be so much easier. Do not follow the procedure to lift the engine out completely unless you intent to do so, from memory it was the lower teardrop mount and bracket, engine drivers side mount and brackets, and a few gearbox bolts, but as I say study carefully what you need to do, and do no more than absolutely necessary.

Important :- STUDY ALL OF THESE FOUR MAIN DIAGRAMS, AND ALL THE OTHER DIAGRAMS INSIDE EACH FOLDER AS WELL, then print them off in the sequence you need to use them.not everything will apply you have to envisage the job.I found going through the diagrams after id printed them off off a few times before starting will give you a feel for the job before you've lifted a spanner.

I started from the top wiring looms injector pipework etc, then injectors etc they are fairly well sequenced .

It was a ball ache to print them out, as I could not print them straight off without them coming off too small to read, but maybe that was my pc printer !!!

Good luck with it

T.J.

You can get back to me if stuck , but be aware I dont often come on here ,so you may not get a quick /urgent reply,I'm sure someone else will help you along if you post and I havent replied to you.

Hi TrolleyJack

Thanks for the info on how to access the manual contents but I might be a bit silly here, I still don't know where to go to access the actual manual. You don't seem to have told me.

Again, thanks for all your help.

Regard

Chesjak

I was ***uming you had the ESM DVD !!!

You will have to scour the internet for a copy, the guy I bought mine of on the web has dissapeared, perhaps someone else on here can advise you where to obtain one.Try the usual auction/ second hand sites.

T.J.

Winchester Trading sell them.

Also I remember Jon had to use the breaker bar & socket / turn the engine over method to get the crank pulley bolt off when he did this job.

Good luck.

i

Cliffordski said:

Also I remember Jon had to use the breaker bar & socket / turn the engine over method to get the crank pulley bolt off when he did this job.

Good luck.

Click to expand...

Indeed Cliffordski, socket on short breakerbar, handle wedged into the front void, can't remember exact position probably over the lower control arm.

The technique was one turn of the key, check to see if loose, rinse repeat until it is. I was lucky, came loose first jolt.

T.J.

I've organised the job for next week. Got all the tools I need etc. Went and looked at a trolley hoist today but if I use it, I will not be able to get under the car to remove the sump to do the oil pump chain.

The one I looked at was a Draper EC1000 1 ton and the legs are going to get in the way when I get under the car. The boom doesn't extend beyond the front of the legs

All of you that have done this job, how did you support the engine when you removed the engine support bracket to get to the chain cover.

Are there any tips I need to know.

Cheers

chesjak

1 Before getting into the job proper, I would suggest you remove the injectors, then reinstall them, to prove they still function prior to re installation.
make sure you clean the injector clamp bolt holes of all fluid debris etc , if they are not and you start the bolts back in, they will hydrolock and you will strip the very soft alloy threads, then you will
have to helicoil them. If any are goosed after you do you'll know how many to replace number them and reinstall in their respective correct position as they will have been individually programmed

2 Hire a two ton engine hoist with a fully extended boom lifting weight of 500kg, take as much as you can off the underside before you dismantle the drivers side engine mount, and start using it.

3 If you are using the ign key /starter motor method to shock the crankshaft bolt free, do it before you remove the wiring, and battery or you'll generate a boat load of electrical faults.

4 Before starting on the chains , guides etc, make sure all the timing marks on the cam valve sprockets are aligned to the respective marks on the casings.

5 As has been mentioned mark the correct position of the subframe/ bolts I used tippex even though you will not be fully removing the bolts , it will still twist as it's still under torsion.

Good luck with it.

T.J.

Hi T.J.

Thanks for that info.

You have been very helpful.

Must say, I have attempted many auto jobs over the years but this one seems to have me concerned

We shall see??

Cheers

Hi

Well - suitably prepared I started the job on Friday. Got everything disconnected and then left the injectors to soak up the releasing oil overnight Got started on the injectors next day and even with a injector removal slider they would not budge at all apart from one I had replaced a couple of years ago.

As I had to be mobile on Monday morning I took the decision to abort. I connected everything back up, as was, including making sure that the injectors were ***embled correctly including the miniscule internal bits where I had to take the top off them to use the slider.

I bled the system, made sure that the fuel was getting to each injector and gave it a spin.

To start with the engine just turned on the key with no firing. After a while it did fire but very slow tick over and very lumpy as if not on all four cylinders. A lot of smoke out the back which I can only ***ume was from the releasing oil that got down into one cylinder. It also KNOCKED big time so I shut it off.

I have started about four times now and still get the smoke and the KNOCK. which gets worse if I in any way touch the light throttle.

There are no leaks.
I am confident that I have ***embled the injectors correctly.
I have checked for fuel coming out of the mechanical pump, which there is, although I had expected it to really spurt out but it was very moderate.
I have bled the fuel filter albeit it didn't need it
The hand priming pump does not remain hard. If I pump it until it gets solid I can go back to it in a few minutes and I need to pump it again
I have taken each glow plug out and checked that they at least work which they do. The glow plug on the dash goes out.
Whilst each glow plug was out, I turned the engine over and did not get any fuel blowing out.
I have checked for any faults with the OBD2 scanner and it started clear. I showed fault P1384 on the first start attempt which I understand to be Knock sensor 3 circuit.
Other times it does not register, The ECU is completely clear of faults.

I don't know what else to do!!!!!

If the above makes sense can anybody help please.

Chesjak

I released my injectors this way :- warmed engine right up to normal temp, dosed the injector slots with releasing agent left 10 mins, re started engine let it tick over, then slowly released the bolt clamps on each injector individually, till they started blowing back the releasing agent.

I am not saying this is the right way to do it, nor recommend it, I am saying this is the way I did it.

Needless to say, I had one that would not budge using this method, but considered three out of four a victory.

On re ***embly

I had the very same severe knock / pinging etc when I reinstalled my injectors ,sounded like all the valves were shot and worse. talk about ********************* off.

The only one I could not remove was the one nearest the fuel pump / airbox ,I used a slide hammer to get it free, and also thought I had re ***embled it correctly.I had either re ***embled it incorrectly, or had damaged it in some other way.

So,***uming this was the only one that could be faulty, (as it was the only one I disassembled and used the slide hammer on ) I took the chance and bought a replacement off the bay, and the engine fired up first click after I installed it. It smoked more than usual but I was expecting it to due to the fluid that had leaked into the cylinders.

They were all re coded at Honda afterwards.

I don't know if that particular cylinder sets the rest of the timing sequence up for the injectors ECU, cam position etc, but in my case replacing that particular one cured the knock, and got it to fire. proving to me at least, the one I had taken to pieces, and reassembled was at fault.

As for the position you now find yourself in , I'm sorry but I do not know how best to advise you.

Hope you get it sorted.

T.J.

Hi T J

You are probably right. From your experience, I despite thinking I ***embled them correctly the injectors probably are the problem although I have ***embled them as per a Bosch schematic including the little ball bearing and shim.

I might end up cutting my losses and renewing them if I eventually get them out.

Cheers

Chesjak

I've read the small ball bearing has a sloping shoulder to one end, if it's put in the wrong way high pressure diesel will be forced passed it at the wrong point in the ignition cycle, and will in all probability get dragged into the oil sump. Have a look inside your no1 injector and see if it is located in the right orientation.

Also drain a little engine oil out, and see if it appears to be more watery than usual / or smells of diesel. This then may be an indicator of what is happening with yours.

T.J.

Hi TJ

Got me thinking. Took all the injector solenoids of and made absolutely sure that the internal components including " the little speck of dust" ball bearing and shim were seated correctly. So,so fiddly. I literally needed to work with a magnifying glass I am surprised that Bosch have designed such a delicate part. There must be another way instead of that. I thought I had done it correctly last time but obviously not.

After a bit of coughing and spluttering the engine fired up and eventually settled down and ran smoothly.

I think I will let things settle down a bit before I try again.

Thanks again for your input. Greatly appreciated.

Chesjak

Glad it has fired up for you and is running, after your "adjustments"

TJ