18 replies to this topic

[ship69]

Hello

 

What is the best possible oil for my car?

I have a  Honda Accord 2.2 i-DTEC EX Tourer 5dr (08 - 09) - Diesel 2199cc.

It has done 100,000 miles and the turbocharger has just started to squeal slightly at 2000-2500 RPM, albeit only when under a sustained heavy load.

 

I have been using Exol OPTIMA LSH 0W-30 ("Fully synthetic Low SAPS engine oil", and changing the oil every 6,000 miles. The car was of extremely low mileage when I bought the car a few years ago at just 13,000 miles, but I fear that the previous owner used the car for lots of short journeys.

 

Anyhow, what is the best possible oil? As I am running out of "Exol OPTIMA LSH 0W-30".

 

Thanks

 

J

 

 

PS My friend also raves about "Mechanic in a bottle" which I am planning to try too.

 

 

 

 

[Grayedout]

"PS My friend also raves about "Mechanic in a bottle" which I am planning to try too."

 

Don't do it!  Trust me oil companies spend millions of pounds perfecting the very fine balance of additives in an oil and a small change of less than 1% can have a huge effect so throwing in a bottle of one additive will throw everything out of balance and may have a huge detrimental effect on other aspects.

 

In terms of oil for your car you need a low SAPS (if you have a DPF) A5/B5 0W-30 and get the best you can afford as you get exactly what you pay for in terms of oil.  If it's cheap then it's for a reason.

[stellamon]

I thought 0w-30 Acea C3 was the specified spec for that car

[Grayedout]

Your probably right as C3 indicates low SAPS

[Bounder]

An oil thread!

If you look at the oil filler cap on your engine it should say C2 mine does, however  I use C3 as C2 is designed as an economy improving oil not a performance oil.

regarding oil weight 0w is preferred by many but again I prefer 5w.

 

Having had a I-Ctdi before this I used 5w30 C3 oil at services, mainly on the advice of my trusted Honda dealer who advised me that the majority of the UK cars that they had seen with cam chain issues had been run on 0w30 and at a Honda meeting where UK and Irish dealers were brought in the advice was in older cars 5w30 should be run in preference to 0w30.

Many of the UK dealers were surprised at this advice given that 0w 30 was preferred in the handbook.

You have to ask why is it recommended? maybe for reasons of economy ?

I'm not sure but I do 6250 mile changes on mine with Mobil super XE  5w30 or Valvoline Synpower XLIII  

[Grayedout]

"Having had a I-Ctdi before this I used 5w30 C3 oil at services, mainly on the advice of my trusted Honda dealer who advised me that the majority of the UK cars that they had seen with cam chain issues had been run on 0w30 and at a Honda meeting where UK and Irish dealers were brought in the advice was in older cars 5w30 should be run in preference to 0w30.

 

Many of the UK dealers were surprised at this advice given that 0w 30 was preferred in the handbook."

 

 

 

Not doubting what you are saying but does not make sense! A 0W is thinner when it's cold than a 5W so when you start the car in the morning then the thinner 0W will flow faster and reach the essential components quicker and so reduce the time that the engine is turining with no oiil flow.  All oils are a lot thicker when cold than when hot so the old adage of thicker is better does not make sense either.

 

I have read that icdti engine is very 'sooty' and it's this soot that causes the wear in the timing chains because the 12,000 miles drain interval is too long and the addtives within the oil that handle the soot are exhausted prior to the drain and so the soot particles cause abrasive wear.  This is why dropping the drian interval to 6,000 miles is the preferred option. 

[Bounder]

C2 and C3 are very similar in spec, the principle difference is the High Temperature High Shear (HTHS) rating for each, C2 is ≥ 2.9  and C3 is ≥ 3.5 

Oil will still flow very fast once the oil pump spins anyway, but the HTHS readings mean the ability of the oil to flow at operating speeds through the engine to prevent piston scuffing etc.

Lower means its more fuel efficient, Higher means better wear protection.

12k miles is far too long to leave oil in an engine, these crazy long intervals are designed for fleet managers to show a lower level of servicing cost, not for engine longevity.

That's why I do mine at 6250 as per Honda spec.

My 7th gen never had cam chain problems in the time I had it and always sounded sweet.

 

you can read about HTHS here http://www.duronthet...er_UK_HiRes.pdf

Edited by Bounder, 07 February 2019 - 04:14 PM.

[Grayedout]

Yeah fully understand HTHS but it doesn't explain the perceived benefit of a 5W over a 0W

Edited by Grayedout, 07 February 2019 - 05:29 PM.

[antdad]

...better overall protection than initial protection I suppose?

 

The best explanation I found over the BMW N47 diesel engine debacle was the extended service warranties caused oil degradation leading  to critical oil ways becoming blocked.

Edited by antdad, 07 February 2019 - 06:03 PM.

[Grayedout]

No because the overall protection will be governed by the high temperature viscosity which is the same as they are both 30 grades

 

I started writing this 

 

http://typeaccord.co...ine-oils-fuels/

Edited by Grayedout, 07 February 2019 - 06:14 PM.

[Bounder]

The difference between the C2 and C3 is the HTHS the C2 @ 2.9 mPas  is designed to prioritise economy over lubrication performance. C3 having a slightly higher HTHS @3.5mPas will protect the engine better during use.

 

With any multigrade oil the larger the difference between the winter  and high temp  grades means there is a larger amount of the Viscosity index improver  to make the oil perform better particularly at super low temperatures the like of which we never see here, I am talking about -35°C and -40°C which is where 0w and 5w are tested on the J300 SAE scale.

The first part of the oil to break down is the VII so the oil which has a larger range will break down faster than the oil with a smaller range.

 

At -35°C 0w has a pumping viscosity of 6200 mPas and at -30°C 5w has a pumping viscosity of 6600 mPas, these temps are very low, at -5°C or even -10°C the difference is very small, and unlikely to mean much to a normal passenger car driver.

 

in my view given I never see temps below -15°C I prefer to use an oil that has less of a range between the winter and high temp rating as I don't believe there is any benefit to my engine in using an oil rated for -40°C over -35°C.

 

I am far more concerned about using an oil which provides better protection during use which is the difference between the C2 and C3 Acea ratings and the difference in price between a 0w30 C3 and 5w30 C3 is usually quite significant.

and enables me to use smaller Oil change intervals which I prefer.

 

Like most oil threads people have their own opinions and ideas and I'm not stating mine is right, I just don't see the need for me to use an oil that is designed for use at temps far below what I normally encounter.

If I lived in Canada or Siberia I might choose to use 0w30 but as I live here 5w30 C3 is more than enough for me.

[Bounder]

Interestingly when looking up the ACEA oil sequences I noticed that the spec for C2 was worse for ring sticking than any of the other C grades, 1,3,4,5 which were allowed 1.0 for the first ring and 1.0 for the second, C2 is 1.2 for the first ring and 2.5 for the second ring.

So while C2 oil might save a small amount in fuel you may pay the price with your engine performance.

https://www.acea.be/...pdate_REV_2.pdf

[Grayedout]

C2 & C3 oils are mostly made using Group III base stocks, which have a Viscosity Index > 120, and so may not require as much Index Improver as you think.

 

I agree the C3 will be the better oil for long term protection.

[ship69]

To get clear, i am mainly interested in reducing the wear on the engine & turbo. 

Background
The turbo has started making strange 'singing' noises after a couple of seconds when at full throttle at over c.2000RPM. The noise sounds like a woman (or a man with a high pitched voice) singing. My local mechanic thought that the bearings on the turbo may be starting to go. 

It may of course already be too late to save the turbo.

 

 

EDIT:
OK, I have now spoken to Exol and I have ordered some Exol Optima LSG 5W-30 (M409), which they recommended for a slightly worn engine.

I am planningj to do a 500 mile journey at the weekend, so fingers crossed!

Edited by ship69, 14 February 2019 - 01:28 PM.

[Bounder]

It sounds like your turbo vanes are hitting the housing, if that is the case I suggest having it inspected and feel for play in the core.

If you catch it in time you may be able to just replace the core.

I doubt that oil will help in this case, do you allow the engine to idle for a while after use especially hard usage? Turning an engine off straight after doing high speed work leads to a sudden drop in oil pressure which feeds the turbo lubrication system, always let the engine idle for a minute or so to allow the turbo to wind down.

[F6HAD]

Your blocked dpf saga has caused soot build up on the vanes of the turbo and they’re now scratching against the inside of the housing. I see it all the time. Switching to 5w30 won’t do anything positive for your turbo.

[ship69]

Your blocked dpf saga has caused soot build up on the vanes of the turbo and they’re now scratching against the inside of the housing. I see it all the time. Switching to 5w30 won’t do anything positive for your turbo.

 

Ah... sounds more than likely. What are my options from removing the soot from the vanes of the turbo?

F6HAD, out of interest which vanes are likely to be effected - the intake or the exit where the exhaust gasses drive the turbo? (The latter sounds more likely...)

 

Removing and disassembing the whole turbo in order to clean it sounds extremely expensive, but do any of chemical cleaners work?

e.g. Product: "Wynns Turbo Cleaner"

"How to clean TURBO without removing"
https://www.youtube....h?v=_09bUZMgTh4
 

"How To Clean A Turbo On A Diesel Without Removing Using Wynn's Turbo Cleaner Spray"
https://youtu.be/zacCSz4c8G8
 

e.g. Product: "CRC GDI IVD Intake Valve & Turbo Cleaner"

"How To Use CRC Intake Valve & Turbo Cleaner || Does it work? Testing It On A Turbo"

https://www.youtube....h?v=204zFZGVnrI
 

e.g. "TerraClean"  ??
http://terraclean.co.uk

e.g. "Revive Turbo Cleaner"
https://reviveturbocleaner.com/
 

... of the options above Revive sounds the most promising to me, although their kit is not cheap!

 

Given that I am about to do an oil change in anycase, now might be a good time to do any such chemical clean, no?

Edited by ship69, 15 February 2019 - 05:41 PM.

[F6HAD]

My mechanic offers it as a service, car needs to be in leeds all day.

http://typeaccord.co...ning-de-coking/

[ship69]

My mechanic offers it as a service, car needs to be in leeds all day.

http://typeaccord.co...ning-de-coking/

 

Sadly that is not an option.