Jump to content


Photo

Engine Drummimgrumming?


  • Please log in to reply
16 replies to this topic

#1 chesjak

chesjak

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 199 posts
  • Name:chesjak
  • Car :Accord I-ctdi
  • Locationsouth coast

Posted 07 November 2019 - 05:42 PM

Hi Guys

 

Having recently changed the timing and oil chains I now notice what can best be described as a drumming which is coming from the resonator box in front of the engine.  I am also now getting a loud clicking noise coming from under the rocker cover.

 

I thought it might be an hydraulic valve leaking but a bit loathed to check seeing as I would have to have the head off to renew them.

 

Have had it of and checked in case anything was untwards but all seems OK.

 

As I said above, I recently changed the chains and I did disturb the cam shafts but I am sure that I got the timing correctly lined up again as per the manual instructions.

 

To be honest, I can't be sure but the drumming noise might have been coming on before the chain renewal but not sure. I thought it was a blow in the exhaust.

 

Has anyone got any ideas about what might be the problem.  Getting desparate!!!


Edited by chesjak, 07 November 2019 - 05:43 PM.


#2 Channel Hopper

Channel Hopper

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 993 posts
  • Name:Stephen
  • Car :Accord 7 Estate 2005
  • LocationKT8 Postcode

Posted 09 November 2019 - 11:09 AM

Not good after all that work.

 

Can you work out - with a screwdriver and ear - if the noise is actually front/rear/left/right of the engine ?

This might allow you to dismiss the timing chain(s) from further investigation.

 

I'm also thinking you could have nothing more serious than a - slightly - leaking injector seal, did you take them out when you changed the chains ?

 

If you can eliminate these and suspect it is a tappet then changing the oil might free it off, before you start taking things apart again, though I don't believe you need to take the head off to change them, even tapping them in turn with the cover off could clear the issue.



#3 Channel Hopper

Channel Hopper

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 993 posts
  • Name:Stephen
  • Car :Accord 7 Estate 2005
  • LocationKT8 Postcode

Posted 09 November 2019 - 11:28 AM

This thread appears to have some additional hints, despite the depressing finale.

 

http://typeaccord.co...nocking-tappet/



#4 chesjak

chesjak

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 199 posts
  • Name:chesjak
  • Car :Accord I-ctdi
  • Locationsouth coast

Posted 09 November 2019 - 12:24 PM

Hi Channel Hopper

 

Thanks for getting back to me.

 

I can dismiss the chain.  All seems quiet in the vicinity of it.

 

I have also checked the injectors and they are OK. The sound a blow by makes is not the same as the metallic sound I am getting.

 

Since I put some Ceramic grease on them when I put them back after renewing the timing chain, I managed to get them out easily this time.  They are very well seated with new copper seats.

 

It seems to me to be too much of a coincidence that a tappet could suddenly become faulty just after doing the chain!!!  However if they are going to go they have got to go sometime!!

 

I change the oil regularly at 6k intervals so I know the oil is in good condition always and was very careful not to let any muck get in when doing the job but sods law prevails sometimes doesn't it??

 

I have just been reading the manual and it does seem that if I take the camshafts off I can undo four bolts that allow me to remove the lower camshaft holder and then I can get to the tappets.  I don't have to take the head off.  Seems a sensible thing to do if I have already got the rocker cover off.  An inspection of the tappets will answer the question good or bad won't it.

 

As I said earlier, when I checked the positioning of the chain and cam gears prior to taking the old chain off, I did notice that the intake cam gear was slightly forward of the position it states in the manual.  When I put it all back together I positioned it as per the manual.  I wonder if that could be the problem. 

 

I will probably start doing it next Wed so will let you know how I get on  but if you can think of anything else would appreciate you letting me know

 

Honestly, I have had so many problems with this car since buying it at a year old.  Suspension,  Various engine problems, Fuel pump, Alternator, Steering pipes, reversing sensors, 2 new injectors, brake master cylinder. The list goes on.

 

 

Thanks again

 

 



#5 Channel Hopper

Channel Hopper

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 993 posts
  • Name:Stephen
  • Car :Accord 7 Estate 2005
  • LocationKT8 Postcode

Posted 09 November 2019 - 05:17 PM

That other thread also had a mention of metallic sound due to the exhaust manifold (not of an Accord though).

 

You did confirm it is at the front of the engine, so I would start off by giving the exhaust bolts a quarter turn each, see if you get a different sound.

 

Good luck



#6 Channel Hopper

Channel Hopper

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 993 posts
  • Name:Stephen
  • Car :Accord 7 Estate 2005
  • LocationKT8 Postcode

Posted 09 November 2019 - 05:26 PM

I forgot to ask, why did you take the head off the last time ?



#7 chesjak

chesjak

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 199 posts
  • Name:chesjak
  • Car :Accord I-ctdi
  • Locationsouth coast

Posted 10 November 2019 - 07:46 AM

I don't think I did, did I? 



#8 mlkehunt

mlkehunt

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 19 posts
  • Name:Øyvind
  • Car :08 I-CTDI sport
  • LocationNorway

Posted 10 November 2019 - 11:15 AM

As I said earlier, when I checked the positioning of the chain and cam gears prior to taking the old chain off, I did notice that the intake cam gear was slightly forward of the position it states in the manual.  When I put it all back together I positioned it as per the manual.  I wonder if that could be the problem. 

doubt this'll help but I had a similar conundrum with a mitsu 4g63 where the oil pump gear was off its mark when crank and cams were aligned correctly but as it turns out I was being retarded because the smaller gear only turns 1/4 or 1/6 of the crank due to its size, so in the end it wasn't "off" at all



#9 chesjak

chesjak

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 199 posts
  • Name:chesjak
  • Car :Accord I-ctdi
  • Locationsouth coast

Posted 10 November 2019 - 02:47 PM

Hi Mlkehunt

 

"" the oil pump gear was off its mark when crank and cams were aligned correctly but as it turns out I was being retarded because the smaller gear only turns 1/4 or 1/6 of the crank ""

 

So if you were being retarded, what did you do to rectify the prob?

 

I might be wrong but if the oil pump gear was out it won't make any difference to the timing chain alingment will it?



#10 Channel Hopper

Channel Hopper

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 993 posts
  • Name:Stephen
  • Car :Accord 7 Estate 2005
  • LocationKT8 Postcode

Posted 10 November 2019 - 03:12 PM

I don't think I did, did I? 

It was in your opening post.

 

Have had it of and checked in case anything was untwards but all seems OK.

 

Though on reflection it could be something more intimate....



#11 chesjak

chesjak

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 199 posts
  • Name:chesjak
  • Car :Accord I-ctdi
  • Locationsouth coast

Posted 10 November 2019 - 03:27 PM

Yeh

 

Sorry to misslead

 

I meant I had the rocker cover off.

 

Your last sentence,  -    we won't go there shall we!!!!!!!!!



#12 mlkehunt

mlkehunt

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 19 posts
  • Name:Øyvind
  • Car :08 I-CTDI sport
  • LocationNorway

Posted 10 November 2019 - 04:41 PM

So if you were being retarded, what did you do to rectify the prob?

 

I might be wrong but if the oil pump gear was out it won't make any difference to the timing chain alingment will it?

the alignment mark was only off on the oil pump side, and it was like that when I took the timing belt off. it wouldn't have affected anything in that state, though being inexperienced I thought it might.

every 4 or 6 crank rotations(I don't remember 100%) the alignment marks would realign, but on the inbetween rotations, the pump mark would be off by between 1/4 to 1/6



#13 chesjak

chesjak

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 199 posts
  • Name:chesjak
  • Car :Accord I-ctdi
  • Locationsouth coast

Posted 11 November 2019 - 11:06 AM

Thanks for that mlkehunt

 

I'll be doing the job  starting mid week as I said to channel hopper so will let you know how I get on.

 

Regards



#14 mlkehunt

mlkehunt

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 19 posts
  • Name:Øyvind
  • Car :08 I-CTDI sport
  • LocationNorway

Posted 11 November 2019 - 06:08 PM

hope it's nothing major dude, good luck



#15 chesjak

chesjak

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 199 posts
  • Name:chesjak
  • Car :Accord I-ctdi
  • Locationsouth coast

Posted 15 November 2019 - 05:11 PM

Hi Guys

 

just as a matter of interest.

 

Since the oil pump is nothing to do with the timing as such, why does does it have to be alligned with the timing chain sprocket?

 

As you know, the pump chain has a specific link that should be in a certain position and the manual shows the pump sprocket and chain aligned with the  lower timing chain sprocket.

 

I am probably wrong but it seem a  bit unnecessary.



#16 Channel Hopper

Channel Hopper

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 993 posts
  • Name:Stephen
  • Car :Accord 7 Estate 2005
  • LocationKT8 Postcode

Posted 17 November 2019 - 08:56 PM

It could be that the N22 engine, in other vehicles has an addition to the oil pump chain, something that does require a tie in with engine rotation.

 

It might be something as simple as a sensor that determines the exact point oil pressure is given to a particular component, or perhaps a future variant where the chain was designed to drive something like VTEC additions, an emission regenerative system, or perhaps a supercharger .


Edited by Channel Hopper, 17 November 2019 - 08:57 PM.


#17 chesjak

chesjak

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 199 posts
  • Name:chesjak
  • Car :Accord I-ctdi
  • Locationsouth coast

Posted 20 November 2019 - 12:25 PM

Mmmm

 

Three days of hard labour under the carport in freezing cold!!!!  but worth it in the end.

 

The problem was an exhaust tappet believe it or not.

 

I also took the opprtunity of re-positioning the timing chain which was two cogs advanced on the inlet side.  I noticed this when I originally took it all apart and replaaced the chain  but since it had been like it, I put it back as I found it.

 

Can't understand why it should have been like it as I bought the car at just under 9K and would have thought that it would not have been touched  at such a low mileage!!  Would it have come out of the factory like it??

 

Anyway re-set it up and also cleaned out all the gunge from the ERG valve and inlet manifold (second time)

 

Car starts better than it ever has done, seems to have a bit more power and runs smoother.  Lets hope it lasts.  I don't want to do it again.

 

Thanks for all your help guys.


  • Bounder likes this