help strange judder feel

Please help me. wife has been driving my 54 accord ictdi and rang to tell me about a noise / judder when taking off from a junction. thought it might be a slipping clutch. I have been driving the car for aboput 100 miles since today and the only strange sensation was changing from 3rd to 4th at about 55-60mph and i feld a slight knock / judder sensation. no slipping clutch; clutch fluid ok. car has covered 98k; always serviced with 0w 30; had timing belt; manifold and all 4 injectors relpaced by Honda at 91k. Never had a problem. rang a mate who scared me by saying that the dual mass fly wheel can give hassle on these cars. has anyone experienced this?

I was wondering if it could be the large suspension bushes. at 91k Honda informed me that they needed replaced soon. I bought the parts from Honda but whenever i put the car on a mates ramp they looked ok. I know that the diesel lump is a heavy one could it be time now to change the bushes. I was planning to take the car into Honda next week to get these replaced as I still have the part and they are quoting a good labour charge for once. I have a big family roadtrip planned next month and really want to take the executive as it really is a comfortable long tourer.

Also does anyone know if the flywheel is covered by the 7 year 125k warranty.

Happy for any advice chaps

A DMF frankly can give hassle on many modern diesel engines.

Can you describe the noise?

Does the car loose revs, sound like it is going to stall.

Is it a momentary loss of power, does it happen regularly or more when warming up ?

At first I was going to be cheeky and say she was setting off in third rather than first; but no, it does sound like a goosed flywheel. At 91K you can only moan a little, but my sympathies go to you. Make sure whoever does the job has the special Honda clutch tool.

Faddy did a superb write-up on it.

Dan Robinson said:

At first I was going to be cheeky and say she was setting off in third rather than first; but no, it does sound like a goosed flywheel. At 91K you can only moan a little, but my sympathies go to you. Make sure whoever does the job has the special Honda clutch tool.

Faddy did a superb write-up on it.

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NO Loss of power or revs at all. have done a few web searches in the last hour and the honda dmf must be **** because plenty of negative responses are posted. what the hell are Honda UK doing about his problem. What about his Honda Service Bulletin that was issued on February 2009. How can a company that prides itself on reliability screw the customers when the part is obviouslt inferior to start with. I have 2 golf gti's one with nearly 200k and touch wood no problems. Is there an uprated DMF available. From what I can find online I think not but happy to talk to someone if it is.

Can anyone confirm about having to replace the large two suspension bushes. is it worth doing. how will i know if they really need done. what effect or sounds to the driving. only asking as it looks like i will have to sell a kidney to replace a dmf and clutch it that it. alternative is to burn car.

happy to discuss guys. the uprated parts not the burning issue.

To be honest, its not just Honda dmf's that fail, all webs searches for dmf's are going to report failures as no one is going to post a message that their dmf is working as it should. Most posts on the internet are by people who have encountered a problem with their car and are looking for advice.

do a google search for ford dmf failure or Awful German car dmf failure and see how many hits you get, there are loads no matter what make the car is

since when did the swear filter change vol'kswagen to Awful German Car lol :lol:

:lol: :lol: The company that looks after my vans doesn't put dmf's back in their fleet managed Transits - unless specifically told to by the fleet managers - traditional ones go in with a postit on the steering wheel saying "learn to drive properly".

Comparing a Dub GTI or an Accord is a little like comparing Apples and Oranges. Manky Apples at that.

As mentioned it does sound like the Flywheel is goosed. DMF are notorious for this but in all fairness the Honda DMF is the stronger from the other manaufacturers. It is rare for the DMF to fail at this mileadge but not unheard of. Mosts members have been lucky and only needed a clutch.
For a DMF to fail it does all depend on the driving styler of the user and how they have treated the car. If the car has seen an aggressive driver then I would expect the DMF to fail. High revving and then releasing the clutch does not help the DMF at all. Sometimes however it can just be that the DMF has failed regardless of how easy you have driven the car.
Either way for this instance it does sound like you will need it changing. Before doing though I would first get it diagnoised by a good mechanic and make sure it is the DMF.

If it only happens when you change gear then DMF looks like the culprit

If it only happens when you accelerate and a part of that is changing up gears it could be your inner CV joints are worn. For the record these bushes your talking about I ***ume are the compliance bushes in which case would appear as a loud knock normally distinctly from one side or the other and would have in a variety of scenerios.

Hi Gerry,

Is the judder only when taking off in 1st gear? If so it could be down to uneaven wear on the clutch plates

Gerry, is the judder when accelerating in 3rd? As Andy said this could be worn driveshafts.

I would recommend arranging with Donellys & Taggart in Ballymena and letting their mechanic take it for a quick test drive. He'll quickly know if its driveshafts or DMF.

If it is DMF, my neighbour was telling me about a company in Newry that will apparently change the DMF for a solid standard type flywheel.

nodrogs said:

Gerry, is the judder when accelerating in 3rd? As Andy said this could be worn driveshafts.

I would recommend arranging with Donellys & Taggart in Ballymena and letting their mechanic take it for a quick test drive. He'll quickly know if its driveshafts or DMF.

If it is DMF, my neighbour was telling me about a company in Newry that will apparently change the DMF for a solid standard type flywheel.

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cheers,

been driving it today for close on 120 miles with no effects at all. i don't drive it asgressively anyway but car has been pulling smoothly up throught the gears with no problems touch wood. tried a few tests that were in a civic forum for ictdi's which said to accelerate in 4th gear at 30mph to over 2000rpm amd see it anything happens. no problems don't know how much of a test this is. but no juddering ; knocks; slippage etc. totally confused had priced clutch kit including release bearing and dmf just in case. might give D & T in B'mena a shout if it persists. I'm only ythe second owner and car has a full honda history. really enjoy the car would be totally annoyed if i have to start shelling out dosh to fix it. would be happy to get in touch with the company in Newry just in case.

cheers

If this is the clutch plate or DMF the fault or slip can come and go for about 12 months.So as the guys said this could be the problem.
I would get it checked to save the guessing.

brett said:

If this is the clutch plate or DMF the fault or slip can come and go for about 12 months.So as the guys said this could be the problem.
I would get it checked to save the guessing.

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12 months, might have it sold by that time. i don't want to start splitting the box and engine to fix something that might not even be the problemor an inttermittent fault that only happens occassionally. can anyone answer the question if the current dmf can't seem to cope with 140bhp and routine driving what do drivers do when they remap uo to 180bhp etc. how can this obviously inferior part cope with the extra power demands. is there an uprated part available. Honda don't sell one.

Dude, its done 90K...I don't see the the obviousness of the weakness in your case, and I speak as someone who had to have both clutch & DMF changed a week after purchase and at 125K

In answer, those of us with maps do so with full knowledge, and normally after the clutch has been changed. Premature DMF failure as a rule is pretty rare for us.

As i said get it looked at 1st and as Dan said 90k is good for these clutches.mine went on 37k standard/ car now mapped over a year and no problems so fare.

gduck said:

12 months, might have it sold by that time. i don't want to start splitting the box and engine to fix something that might not even be the problemor an inttermittent fault that only happens occassionally. can anyone answer the question if the current dmf can't seem to cope with 140bhp and routine driving what do drivers do when they remap uo to 180bhp etc. how can this obviously inferior part cope with the extra power demands. is there an uprated part available. Honda don't sell one.

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Gerry,

Please don't take me the wrong way, but you initially asked for advice and equally you have asked for an opinion on the DMF as to whether it is up to the job.

Whilst I understand that you feel somewhat aggrieved, many have given an answer to this in that regardless of manufacturer DMF's can cause problems, equally many have said that within our experience it is not a major problem directly but can be a product of a failing clutch being over stretched etc. The major problem with the DMF is it is expensive to replace, whichever manufacturer and is always unwelcome news.

As of yet you have not taken it to get it looked at and the answers you have received are subjective on the information provided in your original post, so as of yet it has not been confirmed. Also your car has done 98k on this DMF, which in all honesty for a part that is doing those miles in constant motion is hardly inferior and perhaps some of your prior opinions are a little harsh.

From your opening description, it is quite vague, hence why I originally asked for some more detail, which may help narrow down things, If you could describe the noise i.e is it metallic, a clunk, or a rattle or some other sound, as there may be other areas to explore. Also in the opening post, you had a description from your good lady, but have not actually as of yet experienced the same noise, only a slight knock / judder no slipping etc and have since done another 120 or so miles and experienced nothing.
Whilst the DMF is a candidate from your description, equally it may also be a bit early in the day to actually condemn it, based on what has been said so far.

I take it you have read the threads on clutch slip, could you confirm that you have had none of these symptoms.

You have also asked for an opinion on the whether it could be the large suspension bushes, whilst also stating that Honda advised they needed doing soon at 91k and that you have actually bought the parts and can get them fitted at a reasonable labour rate. No one has specifically responded to this point, however in the simple task of ruling something out and that the parts are just sitting there, I would get that done ASAP finances permitting of course.

It would be worth trying to recreate the noise / judder so that you can take note and possibly be able to almost recreate it on demand, then get a technician from Honda, don't mention DMF and re-create the symptom and see what they think, after all if you go to a garage a state that you suspect the DMF, you are almost opening the door for them so to speak.

Hope it all gets sorted for you soon and you can go on holiday with some peace of mind.

And there speaks the good Doctor :lol: