Noisy front brake caliper

Hi guys,

I live in Évora, a small, old, beautiful Portuguese town, but with very very bad roads. Every road in the historical part of the city are made of rocks, disposed in a very irregular way, as it was centuries ago, something like this:



A while ago, I started to ear a "banging" noise when driving over roads with this pavement, but as soon as press slightly the brake pedal, the noise go awya, but if pulling the hand-brake, the noise continues.

I checked the brakes several times looking for the cause of this with no success, the pads are ok, have no play, everything seems ok... Today I decided to give it another go, and I noticed that if I "twist" the sliding part of the calliper, it is possible to see some play in the sliding pins. After removing the sliding part of the calliper, it is possible to see some play in sliding pins, and the actually make some noise when "toying" with them from one side to the other, so, I guess that I found the culprit...

Now, my question, is it normal for the sliding pins to present some play, allowing them to play from one side to the other up to the point of making noise?

The sliding pins are easy to replace, I wonder if it is the sliding pins that are worn, or the part where the sliding pins are installed...

Here are a couple of videos that I shot with my cell phone, they are very bad, but they give an idea of what I am talking:

http://www.youtube.com/embed/RMYbAR3_YCw
http://www.youtube.com/embed/g7QQPSPmMPk

Pedro, I've never seen anything like that and can't comment on whether it's normal.. It's possibly mine do the same but I've never noticed.

Are you sure such minor lateral movement is the cause of the noise and not simply a badly fitting brake pad? Can you check the caliper on the other side to see if it moves like this? Are the pins adequately greased? From the video, the boots look ok?

F6HAD said:

Pedro, I've never seen anything like that and can't comment on whether it's normal.. It's possibly mine do the same but I've never noticed.

Are you sure such minor lateral movement is the cause of the noise and not simply a badly fitting brake pad? Can you check the caliper on the other side to see if it moves like this? Are the pins adequately greased? From the video, the boots look ok?

Click to expand...

I had already put the tire on the other wheel, did not checked it, perhaps tomorrow I will check that and make a decent movie.

Yes, the boots are ok, and I have lubricated them the last time I changed the pads. The lubricant was quite dark, but was still somewhat "moist" and pins move freely. At the moment I don't have the "Red rubber grease" with me, but next weekend I might lubricate them again, maybe it "dampens" the noise...

I am not sure if it is this which is causing the noise, but can't see anything else. The pads are well fitted, present a regular wear in both pads of both wheels. They are perhaps half worn, so they still have lot of kms to do.

Once when driving in one of those roads, and the noise coming from the brakes, I stopped the car with the hand-brake, (no "foot brake), and checked the outer pads with a screwdriver to see if they where loose, but no, they where ok. Today when I took the wheels, I checked again with the screwdriver, and the are tight, they do move a bit if a pushed hard against those steel retainer clips, but have to push hard...

The discs are somewhat worn, perhaps in the limits according to Honda, but I see no reason to suspect of them...

Meanwhile I found a guy with a Lexus exactly with the same problem, the solution was to install new slide pins. Take a look over here:
http://www.lexusownersclub.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=51212

Pedro, has the noise only happened after you changed the pads?

The other thing to check, and this happened to a mate of mine with a Renault Laguna, and his car had a similar noise from the rear was a cracked disc!

However the crack was so small, just a hairline and we couldn't diagnose where the noise was coming from, so he ended up changing the driveshaft (as the CV joint is not seperate on them).. when the noise persisted, we realised what it was but after very close inspection..

F6HAD said:

Pedro, has the noise only happened after you changed the pads?

Click to expand...

I am not sure, I can't remember...

F6HAD said:

The other thing to check, and this happened to a mate of mine with a Renault Laguna, and his car had a similar noise from the rear was a cracked disc!

However the crack was so small, just a hairline and we couldn't diagnose where the noise was coming from, so he ended up changing the driveshaft (as the CV joint is not seperate on them).. when the noise persisted, we realised what it was but after very close inspection..

Click to expand...

Will look at them with more attention, but doubt it, otherwise the noise would not stop when a slight pressure was applied to brakes, I guess...

Actually there's a good chance it may stop or lessen as the pads apply pressure to the disc.. but yep check it again thoroughly. My money is on slightly badly fitting pads. I would be tempted to remove all four pads from the rear and just swap them round and see if the noise moves with one of them.

F6HAD said:

I would be tempted to remove all four pads from the rear and just swap them round and see if the noise moves with one of them.

Click to expand...

From the rear? What do you mean?
Its the front callipers... I can always put put the ones of the right in the left, and vice-versa and see the results.

Next weekend will have access to the old pads. Will look at them and see if there is any difference, and perhaps try them for a day or two, since they still had some friction material on it. If the noise continues, I am sure its not the pads...

Sorry mate, wasn't paying attention obviously - either way the principle is the same, swap them round and see if the noise moves with it..

I don't remember my 6th gen calipers ever moving like that when I worked on them.

Took some more videos, this time with a "decent" quality...
I noticed the the lower pins are the ones which have more play. The upper ones have some play, but much less. I wonder if its normal or not :unsure:
I checked both wheels and they seem much the same. Should have looked at the rear ones to compare...

EDIT: I also checked if all pins are lubricated, and they are ok, still "moisty" and not dry.

It would be great if someone(preferably with a 6th gen), could take off a fron wheel and check if the caliper is loose like mine

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_dfq7JmeTQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puVBwpAuTEE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bY2zGW8Pj1w

Pedro, I think that might actually be normal.. if you think about it, the only thing holding the caliper to the carrier are the slider pins and they are not a solid state (is that correct terminology even) design in that the pins will need to have some play to allow them to move without too much friction.. I still don't think that kind of movement would cause a knocking noise of any sort.

F6HAD said:

Pedro, I think that might actually be normal.. if you think about it, the only thing holding the caliper to the carrier are the slider pins and they are not a solid state (is that correct terminology even) design in that the pins will need to have some play to allow them to move without too much friction.. I still don't think that kind of movement would cause a knocking noise of any sort.

Click to expand...

Yeah, I suppose there should be some play, and I also have some doubts if the pins are the cause of the noise... Any way, I will look for prices of the sliding pins. If not too expensive, I might buy the pins for one wheel, and if they do have less play, I buy another set for the other wheel.

Found them selling online, but not too sure, the shipping costs are higher than the price of the parts: http://seekpart24.com/metzger/guide-bolt-brake-caliper-z1369x

The other possible cause are the anti rattle ships, pad retainers or what they are called, but I don't believe they are the cause, since it is needed to make a bit of force on the pads to move them. I have bent them a bit to put more pressure over the pads, but I saw no results... Also find them selling online: http://seekpart24.com/qh/accessory-kit-disc-brake-pads-bfk906?c=100630

One other thing, looking closely at that sliding pins kit, there is a rubber bushing, which is to be inserted in the lower sliding pin.


When I took the lower sliding out, I noticed there where some slots in the end of the slide, but it seemed quite hard. I did not touched that too much to don't remove the grease, since I don't have any grease with me, but it seemed to be quite hard. Maybe that rubber bushing has gotten harden, thus allowing the pin to make noise.

I am not sure why the rubber bushing is there, perhaps to prevent some noises...

Also, the small bush is also in front caliper rebuild kit: http://seekpart24.com/budweg/repair-kit-brake-caliper-205733?c=100807&at=8516

Taken from: http://honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=2973447

Those rubber bushings are there to control noise. Yes you can put the pins back without them but at times you may ( not definitely ) get a rattling noise. Now that said, something I have found that many many many people don't do is properly remove the rust off of the calipers bracket where the pads slide and also clean out the inside where the pins actually go into the calipers bracket. There are many ways this can be done but the easiest way for a do-it-youselfer is to use files. Get yourself a nice flat file for where the pads make contact with the bracket and use a round file for the pin holes. That should cure your problem.

Click to expand...

I hate incompetent people who doesn't want to do anything...

I went at the local parts store looking for the sliding pins, the first thing the new, self convinced guy said, that is only available at Honda.... Said to him, well, I know there after-market sliding pins... He just give up and said they didn't have it....

Then I asked for the brake calliper rebuild kit, the same answer, that's when I said I have already bought there two repair kits for the rear wheels, the guy then started looking, but even after getting the right catalogue, with the part numbers in front of him, he couldn't find the right part.

I just said thank you and left.... They will not see me there so soon, at least with that guy behind the counter....
I guess I should have taken the part reference number and do all the job for him... Guess I will wait until the other guy is ther, the one which knows what is doing...

Carrying on, today I found the car to make much less noise. Yesterday I did rotated the slide pins 180º, that might have helped a bit.
I guess will leave them as they are, at least until the noise gets worst, they I will see what to do.

Thank you all guys for your help

Hmm so it may be your slider pins afterall?

Sounds like you visited your local branch of Portugese Halfrauds.

F6HAD said:

Hmm so it may be your slider pins afterall?

Sounds like you visited your local branch of Portugese Halfrauds.

Click to expand...

LOL

Actually its a good parts store, the guy just have no ideia of what is he doing....
I inquired BiggRed from the slider pins, and they have it at a decent price:

£23.30 + 7.90£ shipping costs

If in a few weeks/moths decided to change them, I will use their parts, at least they are known for beeing good quality

Bringing to life this old thread.
Yesterday I changed both front brake discs and pads. This seems to have cured the problem.

Probably the noise was due to the combination of worn discs and pads, which made the brake caliper guides to stick out of the caliper more than they should, bringing more "play" to the caliper and pads, thus making "clunking" noise...

Just hope it stays quite for a long time.