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Thinking of puting my 7th gen HIDS in

vile

vile

T A Terminator
Staff member
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Location
Bristol
Car
8th gen 2.4 Manual
Guys with the 8th gen have anybody changed the headlight bulbs yet.
The reason im asking the book says change them from under the wing cover.Iv looked at this over and over again and cant see any benefits of doing this.
The only way i can see is under the bonnet but its 10x harder to get at than the 7th gen :(
Any comments welcome
 
Had my mechanic change my headlight bulbs.it was a nightmare,he had to take the bumper of to replace one my fog lights&said it would be much easier to change the headlight bulbs by removing the front bumper.i had a go at changing them myself but after half an hour gave up.why do car manufacturers make these things harder & harder?
 
I think I will leave them out now.
HH said at the meet next year on the mot there is a new rule.
If your car hasn't got head light washers then hids will fail your mot.
 
brett said:
I think I will leave them out now.
HH said at the meet next year on the mot there is a new rule.
If your car hasn't got head light washers then hids will fail your mot.
Click to expand...
Is it 100%true?Because,I saw couple orginal cars,they got Hid,but no washers.
 
brett said:
Guys with the 8th gen have anybody changed the headlight bulbs yet.
The reason im asking the book says change them from under the wing cover.Iv looked at this over and over again and cant see any benefits of doing this.
The only way i can see is under the bonnet but its 10x harder to get at than the 7th gen :(
Any comments welcome
Click to expand...

Even changing the sidelights is a proper pain in the rear but now know how to do it from the engine bay, with a few scraped fingers!

Rather than change to HIDS, I would be more worried about your warranty (***uming you have it?) just in case.

Fortunately I have the factory fitted OEM HIDS and totally love them. :D

brett said:
If your car hasn't got head light washers then hids will fail your mot.
Click to expand...

Tomas44 said:
Is it 100%true?Because,I saw couple orginal cars,they got Hid,but no washers.
Click to expand...

Yes it IS true. I dont have the link right now but on the direct.gov website that has the Dept For Transport, its there in black and white about HIDS/cleaning/self levelling. If any is missing - F A I L. Simple as that.
 
As promised:

http://www.dft.gov.uk/vosa/repository/MOT%20Inspection%20Manual.pdf

Method of Inspection

1. Check the presence, security and operation of the headlamp switch.
2.Where HID or LED dipped beam headlamps are fitted, switch on the headlamps and check the operation of any headlamp levelling and cleaning devices fitted.
Click to expand...
Reason for Rejection (ie MOT Fail)

1. A switch missing, insecure or faulty.
2. A headlamp levelling or cleaning device inoperative or otherwise obviously defective.
Click to expand...
 
A-EX said:
Even changing the sidelights is a proper pain in the rear but now know how to do it from the engine bay, with a few scraped fingers!

Rather than change to HIDS, I would be more worried about your warranty (***uming you have it?) just in case.

Fortunately I have the factory fitted OEM HIDS and totally love them. :D





Yes it IS true. I dont have the link right now but on the direct.gov website that has the Dept For Transport, its there in black and white about HIDS/cleaning/self levelling. If any is missing - F A I L. Simple as that.
Click to expand...
So if I made instalation by myselft and car hasn't got washers,I can't pass MOT?
 
Tomas44 said:
So if I made instalation by myselft and car hasn't got washers,I can't pass MOT?
Click to expand...

Bingo.

It will fail.

And whenever the VOSA/DFT decide to be more vigilant on self levelling systems too, if you dont have that fitted either, then again, you will fail.
 
The guidelines as previously quoted state "check the operation OF ANY headlamp levelling and cleaning devices FITTED". And reason for rejection "A headlamp levelling or cleaning device inoperative or otherwise obviously defective. Therefore if the levelling and cleaning devices are fitted they have to be working. But likewise if they are not fitted they can not be deemed to be faulty and not fail you for it.

It's like on old cars when people used to fit after market fog lights because they weren't produced with them already on. If the car didn't have them the car didn't fail the MOT because nothing was defective. If they were fitted after market and worked they passed the MOT. But if they had been fitted after market and didn't work your car FAILED the MOT because they were fitted and defective even though they were not part of the car when it was originally produced.

I would interpret the HID rule the same. If you have HID's and you have headlight levelling and cleaning devices then they must work. But likewise if you have HID's and no levelling or cleaning devises fitted then this can not fail the MOT because they can not be deemed as defective.

The interpretation is all in the wording. It states 'of an devices fitted'. It does not state 'needs to be fitted' (if you have HID's).
 
Doc said:
The guidelines as previously quoted state "check the operation OF ANY headlamp levelling and cleaning devices FITTED". And reason for rejection "A headlamp levelling or cleaning device inoperative or otherwise obviously defective. Therefore if the levelling and cleaning devices are fitted they have to be working. But likewise if they are not fitted they can not be deemed to be faulty and not fail you for it.
Click to expand...

Utterly WRONG. See highlighted below.

From VOSA:

http://www.dft.gov.uk/vosa/repository/technicalpenpicture3-lighting.pdf

The presence and operation of these headlamp cleaning and levelling devices has been added to the test. Therefore, if a mandatory headlamp levelling or cleaning device is missing, inoperative or otherwise obviously defective, the vehicle will fail.

This raises the question of whether these checks apply to vehicles fitted with after-market HID lighting kits. These kits convert conventional halogen headlamps to HID Xenon and they are widely sold and fitted to vehicles used on the road. The Department for Transport considers that after-market systems should be required to meet the same safety standards as that applied in respect of these lamps at vehicle Type Approval. Therefore, in order to pass the MOT test, vehicles fitted with after-market HID systems would also need to be fitted with headlamp cleaning and self-levelling systems.
Click to expand...
 
In the original rule quoted the wording of devices 'fitted' implies devices 'already fitted'.

Plus in the Manual you linked to it does state Quote:

Vehicles equipped with High Intensity Discharge (HID) or LED dipped beam headlamps may be fitted with headlamp washers and a suspension or headlamp self levelling system.
Where such systems are fitted, they must work; however, it is accepted that it may not be possible to readily determine the functioning of self levelling systems. In such cases, the benefit of the doubt must be given.

But after reading the gov pdf it clearly states devices 'will need to be' fitted to after market HID conversions.

So which one is right??
 
guys it has always been an MOT failure to have HID lights fitted to a car that does not have headlight washers and self leveling lights fitted.

now I have a HID kit fitted to my accord and my car does not have self leveling lights and it has sailed through 2 MOTs with them fitted and my previous 2 cars also had no problem with HID kits installed and they didn't even have headlight washers. and come to think of it I don't think I have ever heard of anyone failing there MOT because of a HID kit and I know quite a few people who have them fitted.
if your car has reflector lights and not projector lenses you will have issues because of the light scatter. but with projectors like the accord has you don't get this and have a clear beam cut off. (exactly the same as factory xenons)

this MOT scare mongering has been around since the invention of xenon lights and will no doubt continue until the end of time. there is no new ruling. the law has always been the same.
and even if you were mega unlucky and your car did fail the MOT for having a HID kit installed you get a free retest so you can just take the HID kit off and revert back to halogen for the re test then stick the HID kit back on when you have your shiny new MOT certificate.
 
Doc said:
In the original rule quoted the wording of devices 'fitted' implies devices 'already fitted'.

Plus in the Manual you linked to it does state Quote:

Vehicles equipped with High Intensity Discharge (HID) or LED dipped beam headlamps may be fitted with headlamp washers and a suspension or headlamp self levelling system.
Where such systems are fitted, they must work; however, it is accepted that it may not be possible to readily determine the functioning of self levelling systems. In such cases, the benefit of the doubt must be given.

But after reading the gov pdf it clearly states devices 'will need to be' fitted to after market HID conversions.

So which one is right??
Click to expand...

Its pretty simple - if the car has the devices fitted (HIDS/Cleaner/Leveller system), they must work. If aftermarket HIDS are installed, then as per the second link I posted, they too need the additional features like levelling/cleaner.

Dont forget - the first link I posted was for *inspection* and the second link is clearly marked as *testing directive* so naturally the testing directive (which determines the pass/fail elements of the MOT) is what will be followed. Whether MOT testers adhere to or circumvent these guidelines is up for debate.
 
Ok that clears it up a lot better thanks.

So the testing directive says the devices have to be fitted and working, and the inspection states how to test if they are fitted.

Well i'll see what happens come May when my MOT is due, but based on this I can see me failing the MOT as my mechanic won't let that slide based on the fact I got a warning last year over my tints. :rolleyes: Oh well, saves me the hassle of relocating the ballast to tidy it up. It'll all come out instead :lol:

Best start looking for some new headlight rear covers to replace the ones which have holes in them. :(
 
Doc said:
Ok that clears it up a lot better thanks.

So the testing directive says the devices have to be fitted and working, and the inspection states how to test if they are fitted.

Well i'll see what happens come May when my MOT is due, but based on this I can see me failing the MOT as my mechanic won't let that slide based on the fact I got a warning last year over my tints. :rolleyes: Oh well, saves me the hassle of relocating the ballast to tidy it up. It'll all come out instead :lol:

Best start looking for some new headlight rear covers to replace the ones which have holes in them. :(
Click to expand...


Mate, read my post. I dont think you will have any problems unless the guy who does your MOT is an uncontrollable helmet.
 
Guys for an old thread of mine this is beginning a good debait.
It will be very intresting to see the outcome next year.
Let's not forget though the true meaning for this thread as how to fit hids in the 8th gen
 
Next year it's been interesting for me to.I love hid,and don't want change into standart bulbs.who first must go for MOT?
 
crespo said:
Mate, read my post. I dont think you will have any problems unless the guy who does your MOT is an uncontrollable helmet.
Click to expand...

Agreed - and I suspect many MOT testers probably will be further annoyed at having to test yet another "thing". As with all MOT tests and testers, there will be good and honest ones and also bad and unscrupulous ones.

brett said:
Let's not forget though the true meaning for this thread as how to fit hids in the 8th gen
Click to expand...

Pretty sure you can Brett, but for the sake of your car and its warranty, I would hold fire. You have nothing to lose by asking a dealer how much a retrofit is either- might be pricey but at least you know what it would cost (aside from a couple of arms and legs! :lol: ).
 
Guys sod it im going to do my HID'S im missing the light in these dark nights.Watch this space in a few weeks i will do a diy on this as its very hard to do :)
Also the car is not due its 1st MOT for 1.5 years.
 
brett said:
Guys sod it im going to do my HID'S im missing the light in these dark nights.Watch this space in a few weeks i will do a diy on this as its very hard to do :)
Also the car is not due its 1st MOT for 1.5 years.
Click to expand...


haha. I just new you would crack.

I use a Passat for work which has standard halogens and compared to xenon light they are just awful. i love early morning or night driving in the Accord because of the extra light.
 
Brett see my/ the last comment in this thread
New MOT rules

The headlight are graded on brightness now not the type of headlight you have, as it is extremely hard to tell which system you are using without taking it apart. The headlight washers are compulsory if the brightness is over 2000 lumens and has to be present and working. The auto levelling issue just needs a cooperative (or incompetent) mechanic to ***ume its auto and neglect to look for the manual adjust switch. The ruling is 'benefit of the doubt has to be given to the presenter of the vehicle if the tester is unsure'.
 
Doc, from your post;
In regard to the new headlight regulations "headlight washers must be present and working when tested on any HID or LED headlight which produces over 2000 lumens". Also "most of these systems generally require a self levelling device".
Click to expand...
You also say:
Please note: The quotes in the above paragraphs have been taken directly from the VOSA regulations 2010/48/EU DVD.
Click to expand...
So headlight washers must be fitted and working, but self levelling doesn't unless it's specific to the system ie: was fitted as standard.


From all the confusing conflicting information on this, I'm guessing it's going to be like the 'old' MOTs where it comes down to the tester, so some people with mates in the garage will pass and others won't. Better get friendly with my local garage quick!!
 
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