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Tourer brake issues and noises

tbourner

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Havant
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Abarth 595
I've still got my noises and nobody seems to know what might be causing it, I haven't taken it into a garage yet though.

I'm pretty sure it's the front left wheel making the wood block instrument sound when turning right (1 pop per revolution), and I'm pretty sure it's my rear right wheel making the rapid click/creak/spring noise under braking (usually 1 creak per revolution, sometimes 2). So does that mean they're related? Do the brakes work diagonally? The front wheel pop started happening first, then a week or two later the rear wheel creak. Passed it's MOT in the middle. Nothing at all through any pedals or steering wheel. No discs getting particularly hot. Any ideas?
 
I'm pretty sure it's the front left wheel making the wood block instrument sound when turning right (1 pop per revolution), and I'm pretty sure it's my rear right wheel making the rapid click/creak/spring noise under braking (usually 1 creak per revolution, sometimes 2). So does that mean they're related? Do the brakes work diagonally? The front wheel pop started happening first, then a week or two later the rear wheel creak. Passed it's MOT in the middle. Nothing at all through any pedals or steering wheel. No discs getting particularly hot. Any ideas?

CV joint? Bearings?

The creak on the rear of the tourer may be unrelated? Does the rear creak at stand-still if you push the car down (e.g. open the boot and sit on the boot?)

<edit> just rear you other thread - the brakes are done in a cross-diagonal. i.e. front NS to rear OS and vice-versa.

But you seem to be getting this noise only under turning?
 
You need to get the front wheel off and have a good look around, then give the brakes a good clean down and properly clean and grease the slider pins. It will hopefully give you a good base to build on.

With regards the rear creak it may well be the spring pan causing that, it happened on mine a while back and some lube sprayed into the pan solved it.
 
With regards the rear creak it may well be the spring pan causing that, it happened on mine a while back and some lube sprayed into the pan solved it.

Hi Monks, this spring pan - what is this? I have a creak that I cannot get to the bottom of, it could be this?

Thanks.
 
Jason, the popping from the front is only turning, not affected by braking etc. Rear creak is when braking whether turning or not.

Andy, I've got no idea about brakes or spring pans or anything, wouldn't know what I was looking at. I know the rear is the handbrake inside the hub and my instinct tells me its something to do with those springs. That would mean its not related to the front. Could it be brake lines or something?
 
Jason, the popping from the front is only turning, not affected by braking etc. Rear creak is when braking whether turning or not.

Ok, if you are only getting it when turning, then it sounds like a CV joint. Is it "clicking/popping" on full lock? Take the car to a car park and do a full steering wheel lock at a low speed (say 5 mph) you will hear a clicking sound from the drive area if the CV is fading. A failing bearing will typically give the noise in a straight line also (but not necessarily).

Beyond the CV joint, let's look what else could be involved in a turn that could make noise:

1. Steering pump? Steering Rack? - you'd normally feel this in the wheels
2. Loose suspension component (ARB droplink, bushes), Control Arms? - you'd get these noises over bumps, not necessarily in a turn?
3. Loose wheel / rotor mounting? - this would be more of a scraping noise, although the wheel could knock
4. Drive shaft? - this feed the power through the CV joint, unless this is knocking?

Andy, I've got no idea about brakes or spring pans or anything, wouldn't know what I was looking at. I know the rear is the handbrake inside the hub and my instinct tells me its something to do with those springs. That would mean its not related to the front. Could it be brake lines or something?


I think Andy meant the lower arm that the spring sits on - number 10/11 on this:

http://www.hondaoriginalparts.com/honda_car_parts_selection_pfk.php?block_01=17SED01&block_02=B__2900&block_03=533

This support the rear suspension spring - number 1, supported by 8 and 15.

http://www.hondaoriginalparts.com/honda_car_parts_selection_pfk.php?block_01=17SED01&block_02=B__3000&block_03=533

Again are you getting the creak if you sit on the boot of the car and force the spring down or is it ONLY when braking?
 
As in my original thread, I don't think it is CV as I'm not getting a metallic clonk it's more of a pop, I imagine you'd feel it through the steering wheel as well? You would if it was a bearing. Also it's actually better on full lock, from 0-straight ahead to 10-full lock right it only really happens at about 4-7, before and after that it's less noticable, 0-3 is nothing at all.
It passed it's MOT so it's not bushes or anything, I specifically asked them to check the front over properly as well.
I did check my nuts, how would I know if anything else was loose?
I get a VERY slight vibration at 70-75mph, feels like a wheel balance rather than drive shaft thing though (not that I'd really know the difference), any other way of knowing?

I'll have a look at my pan then, what kind of lube should I spray in there (is this a case of NOT using WD40?). I did try wanging it back and forth and stuff yesterday with no creak, it's definitely only when braking, as soon as I lift off it stops. Although I do get some very slight brake noise type squeals sometimes when not on the brakes - occasionally I get a single quiet squeak when I pull away as well, which is odd, only the first time I pull away. I tried yesterday to brake hard, it's tricky as I only hear the noise under 15mph ish otherwise the wheels are spinning too quick to hear it, and it did seem to make the noise less prevalent - if that means anything?
 
As in my original thread, I don't think it is CV as I'm not getting a metallic clonk it's more of a pop, I imagine you'd feel it through the steering wheel as well? You would if it was a bearing. Also it's actually better on full lock, from 0-straight ahead to 10-full lock right it only really happens at about 4-7, before and after that it's less noticable, 0-3 is nothing at all.

Sorry, I didn't read all of the original thread :blush:


Here's some more things then:

1... it is a intermittently sticking caliper? If you are in the turn of 4-7 range with the pop and you apply the brakes, does it stop??
2... You won't necessarily feel a CV joint in the wheel... but if you're not getting it on full lock
3... Could it be a steering pump rack issue? Is the sound certainly coming from the wheel area?
4... If you go on a 4-7 turn, does the popping frequency speed/up down with the car speed?
5... Do you get the same turning left/right?
6... Could it be a control arm? (aka suspension arm on the move?)

I did check my nuts, how would I know if anything else was loose?
Stop the car, turn the wheels to 4-7 and jack the car up so the front left is off the ground (say 2cm). Grab the wheel with both hands and try to shake it? Anything rattle?

I get a VERY slight vibration at 70-75mph, feels like a wheel balance rather than drive shaft thing though (not that I'd really know the difference), any other way of knowing?
I too get this with my Tourer, but it's intermittent. My brothers 2.4 EX doesn't get this, but then he's on 16" wheels where as I am on 17". I but it down to tramlining, though I had the same effect with a Honda Stream and it was a seized caliper.

I'll have a look at my pan then, what kind of lube should I spray in there (is this a case of NOT using WD40?). I did try wanging it back and forth and stuff yesterday with no creak, it's definitely only when braking, as soon as I lift off it stops. Although I do get some very slight brake noise type squeals sometimes when not on the brakes - occasionally I get a single quiet squeak when I pull away as well, which is odd, only the first time I pull away. I tried yesterday to brake hard, it's tricky as I only hear the noise under 15mph ish otherwise the wheels are spinning too quick to hear it, and it did seem to make the noise less prevalent - if that means anything?

You may only get it when braking as the weight shifts from the rear to the front under normal braking, the suspension on the rear lifts - as such this could be the "squeak" point. You don't get it under acceleration (e.g. take off) as the suspension compresses with the weight shift and maybe this point doesn't squeak.

Now I've become somewhat paranoid with rattles from my tourer and I've lubricated all over the place. In the ARB bushes, droplinks, control arm bushes, etc. I still have small squeak, so I must do the spring pan next. I wouldn't recommend WD40 it's petroleum bases is not the best for rubber bushing use some Silicone spray instead.



BTW - all of the above is an Internet guess on noise....I could be completely wrong!
 
Here's some more things then:

1... it is a intermittently sticking caliper? If you are in the turn of 4-7 range with the pop and you apply the brakes, does it stop??
2... You won't necessarily feel a CV joint in the wheel... but if you're not getting it on full lock
3... Could it be a steering pump rack issue? Is the sound certainly coming from the wheel area?
4... If you go on a 4-7 turn, does the popping frequency speed/up down with the car speed?
5... Do you get the same turning left/right?
6... Could it be a control arm? (aka suspension arm on the move?)
Noise doesn't change when you apply the brakes, and the frequency is the same as wheel rotation speed, once per revolution. Only happens turning right, not straight or on a left turn. I was getting a bit of torque steer sometimes and thought it was a compliance bush but again it would have been picked up on the MOT?
I'll have to try jacking it and spinning/wobbling some bits.

You may only get it when braking as the weight shifts from the rear to the front under normal braking, the suspension on the rear lifts - as such this could be the "squeak" point. You don't get it under acceleration (e.g. take off) as the suspension compresses with the weight shift and maybe this point doesn't squeak.
I think I can imagine your suggestion but it doesn't fit what I'm getting, I can touch the brakes very gently so I'm hardly using them and the noise appears, then goes as soon as I lift off. I sometimes get a higher pitch creak just after the first creak, so 2 creaks per revolution - sounds like a rusty gate swinging open and closed in the wind! :)

BTW - all of the above is an Internet guess on noise....I could be completely wrong!
Understood. :D
 
Noise doesn't change when you apply the brakes, and the frequency is the same as wheel rotation speed, once per revolution. Only happens turning right, not straight or on a left turn. I was getting a bit of torque steer sometimes and thought it was a compliance bush but again it would have been picked up on the MOT?
I'll have to try jacking it and spinning/wobbling some bits.


I think I can imagine your suggestion but it doesn't fit what I'm getting, I can touch the brakes very gently so I'm hardly using them and the noise appears, then goes as soon as I lift off. I sometimes get a higher pitch creak just after the first creak, so 2 creaks per revolution - sounds like a rusty gate swinging open and closed in the wind! :)


Understood. :D
Did you get to the bottom of your problem as im having same thing thought was callipers comes when ive used the brake and goes when press on brakes, also just passed taxi test no probs,some times its like a squealing noise then goes as fast as it came
 
My noise is all over the place, didn't have the creaky noise all winter, it's happened a couple of times recently though. Sometimes I get the rubbing noise when turning left now, then sometimes it goes. Haven't heard the popping noise for ages.
Garage drove it and said it's a caliper, then quoted £650 or something stupid. Think I'll just leave it until something seizes or falls off.
 
My noise is all over the place, didn't have the creaky noise all winter, it's happened a couple of times recently though.

I have a similar creaky noise on the almera. It happens on braking like yours but on the front right side. I've had it ages and it does seem to go away over the winter and come back when it gets warmer. Never been a problem with passing the MOT.

Watching a recent wheeler dealers I think (although not sure) it could be a cracked suspension top mount. Its on the list of things to do. Eventually.
 
Well recently I've heard a constant hum/whir/buzz type noise when turning left as well, not in time with wheel revs now just constant when turning, sounds like the tyre rubbing on the arch-liner (but it isn't).
 
I don't know how to get the wheels off let alone all that other stuff.
 
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