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Fuel Economy - Procative Steps/Advice?

Raiser

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Location
Limerick, Ireland
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SE Executive Hatch
Hi All,

Right - First off, I know theres about 15 threads on here on fuel economy - which is fine.

Problem is that they lack direction and all seem to taper off into 12 different acounts of peoples daily commutes and the milage they got last month - ie. theres nothing gained and no advice on proactive steps to take to manage poor economy in our Accords.

I know from the old Site (THAOC UK) and from general research going back a while that my 1.8 manual can and should achieve 380-400 miles instead of its more disappointing 280-300 (This has improved recently, more below!)

Basically I know my Accord and those of (?) say 50% of you out there are not running efficiently and this is costing us serious cash (think 6 months, a year, 5 years!) which could be spent on better things.

I would be ablsolutely delighted if we could start a thread here and post our own accounts of what works, how to do it and what we can do next.

- I think its also worth saying that any money spent in this area is going to be refunded back in no time at all - ie with my poor economy I'd happily pay for parts, labour or whatever instead of pouring the same money into the local Texaco Garage!

EGR Valve Cleaning - I recall on the old site there was a great and very detailed 'how to' on this - I had it saved carefully somewhere until I lost it..... Can someone please repost here?

- Does this work? Is there a noticable difference in economy?

I never got up the courage to do the whole EGR thing, seemed like too much that I could mess up in there, but heres what has worked for me:

Dipetane is a fuel addidive that does genuinely seem to help in clearing out combustion chambers in engines. I know theres always a lot of talk on Accord Forums re carbon build up in the EGR valve etc. Well I use this stuff now and I've brought my mileage from brim-full to orange fuel light from a very consistent 280 miles up to 340 miles which is a massive 33% improvement.

http://www.dipetane.ie/MotorFactorShops.aspx - I solemnly swear I have no connection with or interest in this product by the way.

- Also I started off buying the small bottles - But you can buy 25 Litre Drums a lot more economically - This thread gives a balanced and fair discussion of this product http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055829898

Anyway - Sorry for the long post but hope I get a few people on here who can help out and build this into something worthwhile. I love my Accord and would drive it forever if she would just stop drinking so much ;)
 
By far the easiest, cheapest and most effective way to save fuel is to alter the way you drive. Even against things like tyre pressures and added weight, your driving style accounts for a HUGE section of your fuel economy.

Ideally you want to be driving at 55MPH in top gear everywhere you go, so that's what you should work towards. Obviously speed limits are a factor, so at 40 try to get your revs to the same as they would be at 55 in top. The biggest issue is stopping and starting though, pulling away from a standstill uses tons of energy (literally!), momentum is key, which means anticipation is key - if you could know for certain what was coming up the road, and slow down just enough so that when you get there the obstruction is gone it would be perfect - it never works like that but the same as the 55MPH, that is what you should be working towards. Traffic lights are a nightmare around here but you can generally get to know them and gauge the cars waiting to pull out etc. You'll no doubt P off people behind you who want to be sat at the lights waiting, but stuff 'em, they can overtake if they really don't want that fuel in their tank! :D
 
I'm in a 2.4 petrol. I get 400 miles a tank with all town and A-Road. Throw some motorway into the mix and she's even better - 450 at least. It's simple:

1 - Keep your tyre pressures correct (or even slightly higher than the recommended)

2 - Keep it below 2000 rpm, unless you really have to - ok it's boring as hell, but realistically it makes more sense to coast slowly and gently up to a junction allowing you time to look and pull out without having to completely stop, therefore leaving the car in 2nd gear. No constant stopping/starting, although you are working the gears a lot more.

3 - Keep in the highest gear possible at all times. The moment the car will sufficiently pull in a higher gear, get it in that gear! This keeps the revs down. I spend most of my time around town at 28mph in 6th gear at about 1600-1800rpm.

4 - If you've got cruise control use it! It keeps the speed constant and at the best fuel economy possible, providing you're in the correct gear.

5 - Use super unleaded. It costs about £3 more across a tank I find. But it gets you plenty more in mileage. Think about it, it's more combustable, therefore kicks out more power at lower revs. This suits the driving style of the points above perfectly. You don't rev the car as hard and naturally find yourself shifting up at lower revs to regular petrol.

6 - Keep on top of checking engine oil and get serviced according to the manual - to think it's too expensive to this is simply a false economy. Regular fluid changes, filter changes etc go a long way.

That's what I do anyway. And when you do this most of the time, you can more easily forgive yourself when you do enjoy the power a little more, or occasionally take her into the VTEC ;) .
 
Thanks for the replies Folks - All good, sane, solid advice.

- I'd like to turn this to the nuts and bolts of the issue now if possible - Anyone changed a lambda sensor recently and noticed in increase in fuel economy?

I've read elsewhere on here that it might well help and its a recommended change after ~100,000 miles?

Could I buy off Ebay and do this myself?

- I think I may have saved the write up and pics of the EGR valve and plate somewhere at home - I'll have a look and post later.

If I do this soon myself I'll take a lot of pics and try and document the whole process.
 
Not sure on mpg improvements from the lamba sensor but its easy to change, try pricing up at your local motor factors it just unplugs from the wiring loom and unbolts outta the exhaust, had to change one on my civic many years ago now.
 
This is a topic that I am also interested in.

My Accord seems to be getting through petrol quickly at the moment, and I was thinking of replacing the post cat sensor as I remember a fault with this does not show up as a fault code. I replaced the pre cat sensor two years ago as the other one was dead, and obviously had improved economy since then.

In September I travelled from Bradford to Ipswich to see family and spent the weekend there driving around. On the Sunday morning I noticed I had travelled 250 miles since setting off and the tank was half full. I drove down to Ipswich doing 55 mph pretty much all the way (it was a bit of an experiment!). Before setting off back up to Bradford I filled up again and then set off, this time driving at different speeds roughly 70-75 mph maybe 80-90 mph then again I remember hitting 100 mph!! once or twice. When I got to Bradford I had done 220 miles and needless to say the tank was about a third full.

Of course the faster you drive the more fuel you use but the Accord does seem very thirsty over 3000rpm.

I have also cleaned the EGR valve and although this was a bit dirty it wasn't as dirty as I thought it would be and I wasn't aware of any improvement in economy afterwards.

I have considered changing the car but to be honest I don't want to as the reliability :) means more to me than the saving in fuel cost.
 
Thanks for the replies Folks - All good, sane, solid advice.

- I'd like to turn this to the nuts and bolts of the issue now if possible - Anyone changed a lambda sensor recently and noticed in increase in fuel economy?

I've read elsewhere on here that it might well help and its a recommended change after ~100,000 miles?

Could I buy off Ebay and do this myself?

- I think I may have saved the write up and pics of the EGR valve and plate somewhere at home - I'll have a look and post later.

If I do this soon myself I'll take a lot of pics and try and document the whole process.
Hi Paul,

Here is the link for the EGR cleaning. The one thing it does not mention is to make sure you do the EGR ports as well as the Valve. I did it on mine. The valve was bad but the ports were so clogged up I could stand a screw driver up in them. Like yourself I have a 1.8 not the 2.0 that is mentioned in the step by step.it is mostly the same but when you are doing the ports the fuel rail will have to come off for you to have room to get everything else off. took me about 2 hours in total to do it. Here is the link.
http://typeaccord.co.uk/forum/topic/1734-cleaning-egr-plate/page__p__20592__hl__%2Bcleaning+%2Begr+%2Bplate__fromsearch__1#entry20592

Andy
 
4 - If you've got cruise control use it! It keeps the speed constant and at the best fuel economy possible, providing you're in the correct gear.

Sorry but have to disagree with this point. As Huskyman said momentum and anticipation is key to saving fuel. Your cruise control can not anticipate increases in gradient and when descending gradients it applies the brakes. Both of these fail to maintain momentum. As you approach a hill you should slightly speed up so you're carrying more momentum onto the hill requiring the engine to work less when it's on the hill. It is more economical to accelerate on the flat than it is on a hill. Also when driving down a hill you either reduce the accelerator to maintain the same speed, maintain the accelerator and build up momentum, or coast to and use no fuel. then when the momentums reduced past the bottom of the hill you apply the accelerator again. This uses less fuel than your car braking all the way down the hill, killing momentum, then accelerating right at the bottom of it to try and maintain the speed. Even on the flat cruise control is constantly accelerating and braking to maintain a constant speed rather than maintaining momentum.

Cruise control is there to make your life easy not save you money.

Turning off the cruise control will increase fuel economy by at least 3mpg.
 
Andy that's my How To guide lol. It's not the best, but shows that anyone can do it. But thats only the guide for the EGR plate, the valve is really simple to do as well. As you look at the plate it's on the left hand side.

As Matt has said, CC is not a way to save fuel. It has been in a few magazines over the last 6 months that CC saving fuel is a fallacy. MPG, as long as your car is running well is all down to driving style. I know becuase i've tried it that changine my driving style will change me from 280ish miles to a tank to 380. It's not fun, and is VERY hard work, but also very worth it.

Just think everytime you touch the brakes you are turning fuel into heat, not forward motion, so read the road ahead.

The following is from the AA website, but woth a read

Easy does it: drive smoothly, accelerate gently and read the road ahead to avoid unnecessary braking
Decelerate smoothly: when you have to slow down or to stop, decelerate smoothly by releasing the accelerator in time, leaving the car in gear
Rolling: if you can keep the car moving all the time, so much the better; stopping then starting again uses more fuel than rolling
Change up earlier: don't labour the engine but try changing up at an engine speed of around 2,000 rpm in a diesel car or around 2,500 rpm in a petrol car. This can make such a difference that all cars in the future are likely to be fitted with a 'Gear Shift indicator' light to show the most efficient gear change points.
Cut down on the air-con: air-conditioning increases fuel consumption at low speeds, but at higher speeds the effects are less noticeable. So if it's a hot day open the windows around town and save the air conditioning for high speed driving. Don't leave air-con on all the time but aim to run it at least once a week throughout the year to maintain the system in good condition.
Turn it off: electrical loads increase fuel consumption, so turn off your heated rear windscreen, demister blowers and headlights, when you don't need them
Stick to speed limits: the faster you go the greater the fuel consumption and pollution. Driving at 70mph uses up to 9% more fuel than at 60mph and up to 15% more than at 50mph. Cruising at 80mph can use up to 25% more fuel than at 70mph.
Don't be idle: if you do get caught in a queue, avoid wasting fuel – turn the engine off if it looks like you could be waiting for more than three minutes.
 
Matt, I have to disagree :lol: CC doesn't engage the brakes - and is does not accelerate hard - certainly doesn't bring in the Turbo, and I doubt vtec.

For my 2p... as high a gear as possible, cc where possible, brake as little as possible and keep the revs a shade under 2K.

The difference between 67 and 77 mpg is maaahhhooosssive.
 
To correct my earlier post. I drive around town at 1000rpm, not 1600rpm. Practically on the anti-stall, the strength of the engine ticking over in 6th gear keeping the car rolling ;) .

I recently had to have the O2 sensor changed as it was faulty and tripping the check engine light. Since then, my fuel economy went up from 350 miles a tank to 400. Every tank! The part was expensive though, about £200 or so. But it's probably paid for itself by now, so it's not the end of the world.

Good maintenance and super relaxed driving I think is the moral of the story behind much of this.

:)
 
Andy that's my How To guide lol. It's not the best, but shows that anyone can do it. But thats only the guide for the EGR plate, the valve is really simple to do as well. As you look at the plate it's on the left hand side.

As Matt has said, CC is not a way to save fuel. It has been in a few magazines over the last 6 months that CC saving fuel is a fallacy. MPG, as long as your car is running well is all down to driving style. I know becuase i've tried it that changine my driving style will change me from 280ish miles to a tank to 380. It's not fun, and is VERY hard work, but also very worth it.

Just think everytime you touch the brakes you are turning fuel into heat, not forward motion, so read the road ahead.

The following is from the AA website, but woth a read

Easy does it: drive smoothly, accelerate gently and read the road ahead to avoid unnecessary braking
Decelerate smoothly: when you have to slow down or to stop, decelerate smoothly by releasing the accelerator in time, leaving the car in gear
Rolling: if you can keep the car moving all the time, so much the better; stopping then starting again uses more fuel than rolling
Change up earlier: don't labour the engine but try changing up at an engine speed of around 2,000 rpm in a diesel car or around 2,500 rpm in a petrol car. This can make such a difference that all cars in the future are likely to be fitted with a 'Gear Shift indicator' light to show the most efficient gear change points.
Cut down on the air-con: air-conditioning increases fuel consumption at low speeds, but at higher speeds the effects are less noticeable. So if it's a hot day open the windows around town and save the air conditioning for high speed driving. Don't leave air-con on all the time but aim to run it at least once a week throughout the year to maintain the system in good condition.
Turn it off: electrical loads increase fuel consumption, so turn off your heated rear windscreen, demister blowers and headlights, when you don't need them
Stick to speed limits: the faster you go the greater the fuel consumption and pollution. Driving at 70mph uses up to 9% more fuel than at 60mph and up to 15% more than at 50mph. Cruising at 80mph can use up to 25% more fuel than at 70mph.
Don't be idle: if you do get caught in a queue, avoid wasting fuel – turn the engine off if it looks like you could be waiting for more than three minutes.
Hey Simon

I know it is. I am sorry if I gave the impression that it was not. i was thankful for it at the time I did mine, I believe I thanked you for it, But your car is a 2.0 and it is slightly different on the 1.8.

Again sorry if it was not clear that it was not my own
Andy
 
Mate not at all. You didn't give the impression that it was yours at all fella. I'm just chuffed to bits that someone has found it helpful and would put up a link to help someone else. So no worries dude. B)

It was the guide i posted after i did it on my ATR. Sorry for the confusion fella.

I'm just glad someone found it useful. :D
 
Matt, I have to disagree :lol: CC doesn't engage the brakes - and is does not accelerate hard - certainly doesn't bring in the Turbo, and I doubt vtec.
Whenever I've used the CC I've never found the car to accelerate hard, that's not what I was eluding too. To be honest when using CC the car does accelerate painfully slow, to the point where you can end up getting left behind by traffic on some occasions. Clearly that's for safety so the car doesn't take off and catch you by surprise and run into the car in front. It's certainly never engaged the turbo. I would say if the revs were high enough to engage the turbo or vtec while using CC then you're clearly in the wrong gear. :)

When I was using the CC yesterday the car travelled down a slight gradient and I could feel the car braking and pulling back (like the brakes were binding) to stop the car exceeding the pre set speed.

The point I was trying to make was the CC can't anticipate the road ahead, only deal with the conditions as they are presented to it, this doesn't allow the system to use the momentum of the car to save fuel such as a driver can.

To be honest I rarely use the CC as I can drive more efficiently with out it. I only use the CC when travelling through average speed cameras so I'm watching the road and not constantly watching the speedo. Plus it should guarantee I don't get a ticket. :D
 
I think you were experiencing the engine brake. Unless you have ADAS? When I do economy runs, I use the cc and drive the car like a playstation, avoiding tje pedals as much as possible.
 
I too believe CC makes economy worse, especially on hilly motorways it feels much better to speed up slightly downhill and slow down going uphill, the jerkiness of the CC when you get to the bottom of a crest and it accelerates as it suddenly realises you're dropping below the set speed can't be good.
When I had the Delica I had a bloke sit behind me on the motorway, I thought like the rest he'd get annoyed with me keep slowing down and speeding up but he didn't, just sat 6 feet from my rear end and followed my speed exactly - must have been a hypermiler! :D

Also, this low revs thing, IMO it's better to be around 1200-1500 RPM, below that and ANY input of throttle will require the throttle body to open a massive amount, whereas at 1500 it will open more in line with your right foot. You can't see what the throttle body is doing but believe me at low revs it will be opening more for the same gain in acceleration as at 1500RPM because the engine is out of it's efficiency range. Granted at 1500 you're using 50% more fuel than at 1000 so you have to balance it out - just make sure you low rev riders don't accelerate AT ALL, if you need to pick up speed you need to change gear.
 
Nah I don't have ADAS, I didn't think it was available on 7th gen in this country? Shame it can't be retro fitted. :( But I do also avoid the pedals and use the buttons instead, saves having to keep resetting it. :)

It may have been engine braking I never considered that. I noticed it when I was driving off a raised bridge going down the slope it felt stronger than just engine braking so I ***umed it must have been applying the brakes.

I've just read the manual. I know I'm letting the male species down in doing so but it seems to have given an answer.

"The cruise control may not hold the set speed when you are travelling up and down hills, use the brakes to slow down to the desired speed. This will cancel the cruise control

That would suggest it doesn't apply the brakes. So it seems it must have been just engine braking I was encountering. I was only travelling at 70 mph in 6th gear so the revs were low, I wouldn't have expected that much of a pull back from the engine braking. Even at higher revs when lifting off the accelerator it never seems to pull back any where near as hard and lets the car run on more than that.

Still doesn't explain why I can get better economy driving with CC off though. :-/
 
Agree with Trev, keep that throttle plate closed, for both diesel and petrol.

Also remember that at 1500-1800rpm (petrol only) is cold idle, thats a rich point in the fuel mix, might want to avoid that area, id stay around the 1900-2800rpm for 2.0i+ engines

Mechanically, apart from the above mentioned and the obvious, (may only apply to high mileage and/or older cars) check for brake rub. No point being light on the throttle if a few % is wasted through brake rub, keep those slider pins grease, and the caliper pistons unsticky.
 
"Driving at 70mph uses up to 9% more fuel than at 60mph and up to 15% more than at 50mph. Cruising at 80mph can use up to 25% more fuel than at 70mph"

in Theory the above makes a lot of sense, and i am trying to achieve the above by crusing @ 60mph when on motorway, however it doesn't seems to make a huge difference to the overall mpg, wat do you guys thk?

n.b. i am doing 18 miles motorway trip each way communting to work
 
"Driving at 70mph uses up to 9% more fuel than at 60mph and up to 15% more than at 50mph. Cruising at 80mph can use up to 25% more fuel than at 70mph"

in Theory the above makes a lot of sense, and i am trying to achieve the above by crusing @ 60mph when on motorway, however it doesn't seems to make a huge difference to the overall mpg, wat do you guys thk?

n.b. i am doing 18 miles motorway trip each way communting to work

Got stuck behind 2 HGV's (doing 45ish) on A roads the other night for about 20 miles and according to the cars computer I was doing over 50mpg, in fact when we came into the 30 mph zone the computer got to 51.9 mpg :rolleyes:

Then I got board and it went back down to its normal 46mpg, but as others have said how you drive can make a difference, if the other half is driving then the mpg drops down to 36ish in the same car :lol:

But would agree with some of the post above I can get more mpg with the cc off..
 
Is it just me or is everyone driving slower these days? It's no problem on roads with overtaking lanes, but on single carriageways I constantly get caught behind people driving 40-50 when it's national limit. It does my head in!
 
Is it just me or is everyone driving slower these days? It's no problem on roads with overtaking lanes, but on single carriageways I constantly get caught behind people driving 40-50 when it's national limit. It does my head in!

Austerity measures! Can't afford to drive fast, I've even noticed there are nowhere near as many boy racers around these days.
 
I sit at 60-65 when on a cruise on the A14 or motorway in either of my cars. Simply as that's the speed i'm happy with.

Don't get my wrong i do like the occasional Vtec/boost blast, personally don't see the point of going faster. I've lost count of the amount of times i've had people blast past on the A14, i then get into town and they are maybe 2 cars ahead??? Seems like a waste of petrol to me.

Suppose it is a nice feeling though knowing that in either car i could race the other person and probably win, but then i'm happy with the size of my genetailia, and don't feel the need to 'prove' anything :lol:

*Edit* the last sentence isn't aimed at everyone, just the boy racers.
 
I sit at 60-65 when on a cruise on the A14 or motorway in either of my cars. Simply as that's the speed i'm happy with.

Don't get my wrong i do like the occasional Vtec/boost blast, personally don't see the point of going faster. I've lost count of the amount of times i've had people blast past on the A14, i then get into town and they are maybe 2 cars ahead??? Seems like a waste of petrol to me.

Suppose it is a nice feeling though knowing that in either car i could race the other person and probably win, but then i'm happy with the size of my genetailia, and don't feel the need to 'prove' anything :lol:

*Edit* the last sentence isn't aimed at everyone, just the boy racers.

That's no problemo on a road with more than one lane, but in my neck of the woods it's all single carriageways and people going 40 when it's 60... My commute takes long enough even without people holding me up! :lol: If my ratty old Xsara can handle those roads at the speed limit then anything can :lol:

On the subject of boy racers, I hate the ones who tailgate you in their rubbish cars even though you're travelling plenty fast enough!! there was a kid doing my nut on the A27 the other day, he was in an old Corsa and tailgating me in the Prelude, Why?!?!
 
Corsa and tailgating me in the Prelude, Why?!?!
I've often wondered this myself, and the only answer i can come up with is that he has a VERY small *****, and needs to prove that his 1.2 corsa with it's added exhaust and filter really does give him nearly 200bhp. W@nkers.
 
Sorry Si but I've never understood the ***** envy comparisons, I used to get that all the time when I had a nice car (I won't mention it's name in front of you :D ). People have fast cars cos it feels awesome to put your foot down every so often. People race in carpboxes cos it's exciting and they are too embarrassed to go to a trackday ;)
 
Interesting about the Dipetane as I pick up a bottle at one of the M1 service stations on the way back from Dublin recently and based on the trip computer is has improved the Mrs's economy.

not very scientific but looks to make some difference
 
On a motorway run ive had 35mpg out of my ATR...."normal driving"....as ive just discovered after my last check is about 22 mpg...admittedly thats driving A &B roads pretty much as fast as i can...i dont care whether it gets me anywhere quicker i just love vtec,and im building up a portfolio of fake m3's that have tried their luck lol
 
My 2.0 SE Exec averages 38-40mpg with mixed driving. My commute is 32 miles (Live in the City Centre and work in the countryside - so City Centre, A-Roads and Motorway on my commute).

I tend to set the cruise at around 70 and try not to use the brakes etc too much. I'm certainly not into extreme austerity, if I wanted economy in the extreme I'd have bought a Clio diseasal or something.

My average sized car manages average MPG. I actually had a guy suck air through his teeth when I mentioned I get around 38mpg...

Is everyone convinced a petrol engined car will bankrupt them or something?
 
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