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2011 Accord 2.2 diesel este "intake shutter valve"

PDR

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Hi chaps!

On monday I havd the engine-check light come on and it went into limp mode. Dropped the car over to the local Honda dealer who came back to me with "It's the Intake Shutter Valve, it's non-repairable and the part is £1,950 plus fitting, and it will take a minimum of 2 weeks to get one". Obviously I'd prefer not to spend £2k unless I have no options.

Questions:

1. What is an "intake shutter valve"? The dealer described it as being involved in DPF regeneration, but he wasn't overly clear and so I'm still no wiser.

2. Is replacement with a Honda part the only option? Are there OEM or reconditioned alternatives?

3. Does the car really need it or can it be removed?

4. Anything 3else that's relevant that I haven't thought of.

All advice appreciated!

PDR
 

freddofrog

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This is from the description of the Intake Air System on the 8th gen diesel (N22B) .....

----------------------------------------------------------------

[SIZE=11pt]Intake Manifold Runner Control (IMRC) [/SIZE]

[SIZE=9.5pt]The IMRC valve is designed for stable combustion in low speed range by opening and closing the IMRC valve. The IMRC valve opens and closes producing the gap of the flow rate between the swirl port and the secondary port, and thereby it controls the swirl volume. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]Intake Manifold Runner Control (IMRC) Position Sensor [/SIZE]

[SIZE=9.5pt]The IMRC position sensor detects the IMRC valve angle. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]Turbocharger [/SIZE]

[SIZE=9.5pt]The variable nozzle type turbocharger is adopted on this model. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=9.5pt]It controls the back pressure and supercharged pressure in optimum balance for the engine speed and load by opening and closing the variable nozzle located on the circumference of the turbine and by adjusting the flow speed and pressure of the exhaust gas that are input in the turbocharger. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=9.5pt]The turbocharger boost control valve position sensor detects the turbocharger valve lift. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]Intake Shutter Valve (ISV) [/SIZE]

[SIZE=9.5pt]By closing a valve, exhaust gas temperature is raised compulsorily, and the particulate matter (PM) on the DPF burns. [/SIZE]

----------------------------------------------------------------

So it is a part of the DPF system. You can have the DPF removed by some tuners (a good one about 200 miles North of Farnham). In my opinion (note that my car is the 7th gen 2.4 petrol) the DPF is only a sticking plaster, removal will not affect polar bears, and the DPF on the N22B does nothing about the (now bigger) NOx issue. Detecting DPF removal on MOT is impossible at this time, and likely to remain that way for some years. Note that removal has to be done by people who know what they are doing, and dealers won't want to discuss it.

Otherwise I would think that it's a Bosch part (most of the ancillaries on the N22A and N22B engines are Bosch) and so once you have the Bosch info you'll be able to find it much cheaper than from a Honda dealer ...and I doubt if a Honda dealer will tell you that much even if they know ;)
 

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Brilliant, thanks - exactly the sort of info I was looking for!

I shelled out £1,200 for a DPF replacement last year (which is still stinging) and there are reasons I can't go into in any detail that mean removal of the DPF system isn't really an option for me. So I guess the follow-up question would be can anyone give me the Bosche part number so I can see if I can source it directly?

Also is it likely that it could be repaired? I don't know what it looks like or what breaks on these things, but I have a machine shop in my shed and have made replacement parts for various other cars before now...

PDR
 

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AFAIK there isn't an expert on this (or any other) forum that knows the N22B engine well enough to give you the Bosch part number (if it was N22A then it's a different matter).

If you're into DIY take a look for the Bosch number on the part ...next thing, you'll want to know where it is. In a bit I'll post something that will help (could be a while).
 

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PDR said:
Brilliant, thanks - exactly the sort of info I was looking for!

I shelled out £1,200 for a DPF replacement last year (which is still stinging) and there are reasons I can't go into in any detail that mean removal of the DPF system isn't really an option for me. So I guess the follow-up question would be can anyone give me the Bosche part number so I can see if I can source it directly?

Also is it likely that it could be repaired? I don't know what it looks like or what breaks on these things, but I have a machine shop in my shed and have made replacement parts for various other cars before now...

PDR
I can help on that.
Send me your VIN number and the what part you exactly need
 

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It doesn't really, help but I think you're after a 16800RL0G01(Honda part no).
Slightly depressed to learn there's ANOTHER £1200 part I might need one day.
Why is everything £1200 quid?
:unsure:
 

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It's knowing the Bosch part number that makes these parts cheaper

Here are the ISV removal instructions (click each to enlarge)








You might not have to remove it to be able to see the Bosch part number (***uming there is one)

You could also try cleaning it as follows ....

Wipe off the carbon from the valve and inside the intake shutter valve with a paper towel soaked in throttle plate and induction cleaner.
NOTE:
  • Remove the intake shutter valve to clean it.
  • Be careful not to pinch your fingers.
  • To avoid removing the molybdenum coating, do not clean the bearing area of the throttle shaft (A).
  • Do not spray throttle plate and induction cleaner directly on the intake shutter valve.
  • Use Honda genuine throttle plate and induction cleaner
 

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A bit clutching at straws this, but I thought I'd pass it on...

Googling the Honda part number gives an eBay link to a foreign (ended) auction for a part who also uses the numbers rml46603 and nas09052 in the description. Putting the latter back into eBay gives a listing for a 'throttle body' that looks a lot like the bit you're after. Or it might be totally different and incompatible.
But if you're handy with the spanners £35 quid seems a reasonable gamble against the £1200.
Anyhow, search for item number 222537884413

and here: http://www.lingshondaparts.com/honda_car_parts_selection_pfk?block_01=17TL4A01&block_02=E__3100&block_03=1148&block_05=hcr
 

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I can solve this but I note you can't have your DPF removed for whatever reason..
 

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PDR said:
Hi chaps!

On monday I havd the engine-check light come on and it went into limp mode. Dropped the car over to the local Honda dealer who came back to me with "It's the Intake Shutter Valve, it's non-repairable and the part is £1,950 plus fitting, and it will take a minimum of 2 weeks to get one". Obviously I'd prefer not to spend £2k unless I have no options.

Questions:

1. What is an "intake shutter valve"? The dealer described it as being involved in DPF regeneration, but he wasn't overly clear and so I'm still no wiser.

2. Is replacement with a Honda part the only option? Are there OEM or reconditioned alternatives?

3. Does the car really need it or can it be removed?

4. Anything 3else that's relevant that I haven't thought of.

All advice appreciated!

PDR
I'm not being rude (i don't know you and I'm not a keyboard warrior but sometimes things can look that way in text) but why did you ask if it could be removed if you weren't willing to remove it?
 

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Economic said:
It's probably a company or a lease car
2011 is too old to be either.

I've no idea why the OP doesn't want to remove the DPF, but it's possible that he thought that the ISV might be a bit like the Appendix in humans , there are a few things (not related to the engine) that can be removed from a car.
 

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Economic said:
I'm not being rude (i don't know you and I'm not a keyboard warrior but sometimes things can look that way in text) but why did you ask if it could be removed if you weren't willing to remove it?
A fair question, with a dull answer: at the time I wrote the original post I had no real understanding of what the part was and what it does. The dealer had been very vague and confusing in his description. I wondered if the DPF system could function without it, and I also wondered if it was something else entirely (like part of the EGR system).

PDR
 

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Jon_G said:
I must admit it would be interesting to understand the objection.
OK, since you ask - I'm afraid my problem here is an ethical one. I'm a chartered engineer and have signed up to abide by a code of ethics, and I might be prepared to push it a bit by (say) disconnecting the EGR system (which has a very, very low probability of actual harm to anyone) I can't in all conscience remove the DPF system and start spraying carcinogenic particulates all over the place. This is a personal choice and I don't criticise others who view it differently - I'm not going to get evangelical about it or anything.

That's all.

PDR
 

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Fair point. The dealer probably doesn't understand it either.

You appear to be faced with a decision about spending a fair bit repairing the current problem (with continuing concerns about the DPF system) or having the DPF system removed/disabled (which may affect the eventual resale value of the vehicle?).

This is why I won't be buying another diesel!
 

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PDR said:
OK, since you ask - I'm afraid my problem here is an ethical one. I'm a chartered engineer and have signed up to abide by a code of ethics, and I might be prepared to push it a bit by (say) disconnecting the EGR system (which has a very, very low probability of actual harm to anyone) I can't in all conscience remove the DPF system and start spraying carcinogenic particulates all over the place. This is a personal choice and I don't criticise others who view it differently - I'm not going to get evangelical about it or anything.

That's all.

PDR
 

apintofmild

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I'm with you. I intend to keep mine for the same reason. That said, if / when the time comes Premier Tuning isn't far from here...
 

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PDR said:
OK, since you ask - I'm afraid my problem here is an ethical one. I'm a chartered engineer and have signed up to abide by a code of ethics, and I might be prepared to push it a bit by (say) disconnecting the EGR system (which has a very, very low probability of actual harm to anyone) I can't in all conscience remove the DPF system and start spraying carcinogenic particulates all over the place. This is a personal choice and I don't criticise others who view it differently - I'm not going to get evangelical about it or anything.
even EGR removal is on a par with DPF removal

EGR on a diesel engine reduces NOx at idle and low loads.

So both systems reduce the amount of NOx (EGR) and particulates (DPF) along urban streets.


smokingman said:
A non Honda DPF can be had new for about £400 from here:- http://www.cats2u.co.uk/35248/Diesel-Particulate-Filter/HONDA/ACCORD/2.2
^ that needs to be bookmarked, printed out, put in a frame, and hung on the wall in every house that has an N22B engine ;)

plus a list of all Bosch part numbers on the said engine
 

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I completely respect your views, and a credit to you for not taking the easy option and simply removing it.

I'm afraid I can't help with the issue itself except to suggest taking it apart and seeing if the part can be cleaned and refitted. Only other option I guess is to replace it altogether..
 

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smokingman said:
A non Honda DPF can be had new for about £400 from here:- http://www.cats2u.co.uk/35248/Diesel-Particulate-Filter/HONDA/ACCORD/2.2
Thanks for that, but it isn't the DPF that's failed (that was last year!); it's the valve that takes part in the regereneration cycle. As far as I can see this is a simple ***embly comprising a few machined parts, and electric motor and possibly a position sensor. I would think £200 would be a rather excessive price for the part, but apparently Honda feel that it should be ten times that.

I think it's high time that we returned to traditional approaches to blatent criminal larceny and would happily support the use of a third nuclear weapon against Japan, "pour encorager les autres" (as the phrase has it).

YMMV,

PDR
 

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Steady on, LOL!

Instructions taken from the official Honda workshop manual were previously posted in this thread. Why not simply ask a Honda dealer to perform this clean? Or, now you have the details, why not find a cheaper indy garage to perform the cleaning?
 

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Well I got the car back today. I handed over my card to the tune of £3,113, although this did include a 478 service and an aircon service (which were overdue), plus front disks and pads (which were very close to limit) and new pedal rubbers (mine had split). In return I received my key and a receipt - which was a surprise because for that much I was also expecting share certificates for a 51% shareholding in Honda... :angry:

I was charged £48.50 for diagnosis man-hours and £87 for the man-hours to replace the ISV. There was also about £20 for four bolts/studs and four nuts - I ***ume these either stuck or are always replaced as a matter of policy. But obviously the major item was the ISV itself (H16800RL0G01) which was a whopping £1,965.78 before VAT - I'm ***uming this cost included a specially chartered flight to fetch it and a host of heavenly angels to guard over it in transit or something...

At my request they've given me the one they took off, and when I get some time I'm going to strip it to see if I can establish what actually failed. If it's something like a failed crimp or solder-joint I'm going to be pretty cross... :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

I'll let you know what I find, but as ever - thanks for all the help and comments even if it didn't come to much!

PDR
 

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That procedure was tried and the car then road-tested, obnly to have the fault light come on again after a couple of minutes. That was the £48 "investigation" labour charge AIUI.

PDR
 
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