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...Another Tailgate Problem (Tourer)

Morrisey

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Hi,

Owning a Tourer I have been expecting the auto tailgate to fail sooner or later.

It's finally gone.


No keyfob operation + No manual operation = NO BOOT (fullstop) ...& a handy "TAILGATE" reminder on the dashboard just in case you foget you have lost your boot.


Ripping apart the rear boot section of the car I was happy to find a cut cable in the loom running through the L/H hinge. Result I thought, soldering it back together (after removing battery terminals first, of course).

Returning power, I now have manual release available as well as keyfob open, but sadly no close function from the key.

However, once the boot is closed the first time, TAILGATE appears on the dash once more - This appears to be out of calibration where it does not know the correct closed position???

Do all covers/panels need to be fitted in order for the sensors to funtion correctly (they are still off the car)?

I have tried the ECU reset sequence for the tailgate several times but the same symptoms persist.

Any ideas from anyone?
 

Morrisey

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For reference to anyone having total failure of tailgate function, here are pics I took of the sheared wire within the L/H hinge loom:-







I hope this can help somebody in the future
 

freddofrog

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Hope it's all working properly now, seems odd to get that happening.

Whay year is the car btw, and is it petrol or diesel (not that it's relevant really) ?
 

Morrisey

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Hi,

It's a 2.2 diesel tourer on a 54 plate - I still can't get it to close via key fob, plus the 'tailgate' warning appears on dashboard as soon as it closes the first time after a battery disconnect - This then stays on until the battery is disconnected once more.

Everything else appears to operate correctly, including locking. There doesn't appear to be much free-play in the tailgate, so I don't suspect an alignment issue - Everything feels nice & tight.

Not sure where to go next on this one
 

freddofrog

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so it won't close via key fob, and I presume it won't open via key fob.

but does it close via the button in the tailgate ?
 

Morrisey

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It does open via keyfob but doesn't close via keyfob or pushbutton within tailgate
 

freddofrog

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^ yes there is ...circuit diagrams below (locations are only known to god)

limit switches



complete circuit diagram of tailgate controller, limit switches are top right (not possible to get high zoom of complete diagram)



closer unit (bottom right of complete diagram)



main drive section (bottom left of complete diagram)



fuses to the tailgate controller (top left of complete diagram)

 

Morrisey

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Thanks Brian, these circuit diagrams are perfect for me to start tracing the fault.

I've looked everywhere on the net for such info.

This helps for locating the sensors:-





Much appreciation
 

Morrisey

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RESULT!!

Everything is finally working as it should, no errors whatsoever :)

This is exactly what I did...

1. Squeezed around all 4 sensor strips fitted to the tailgate, just in case one was switching despite being in free air.
2. With battery still connected, I removed the 2 light access panels from inside the tailgate to gain access to the 4 sensor plugs (green).
3. Removed each plug in turn, measuring the resistance across each sensor. Each measured approx. 1kΩ (open position).
4. Tested if each one was functioning correctly by pushing down on the rubber at short intervals across the length of the strip - this closed the sensor (therefore close to 0 Ω).
5. Fitted all plugs back to their original positions.
6. Closed tailgate.
7. Removed fuse 21 (7.5A) from fusebox in driver's footwell.
8. Refitted fuse after approx. 4 minutes.
9. Turned key to position ll (lights on dashboard). The "TAILGATE" warning light was off.
10. Removed key then tried opening tailgate via keyfob - OK
11. With tailgate at its fully open position, close with keyfob - OK


...I must have disturbed a bad contact within either a sensor or a plug, that's the only possible answer

Thanks once again for contributing, & I really hope this thread can help someone in the future. :D



...Next, on to solve my steering wheel wobble at 30mph (hoping its just air pressures, not CV joints!)...
 

freddofrog

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Well done, excellent work there, DIY work is worth doing every time ;)

If anyone else has tailgate problems, a link to this thread should help.
 

freddofrog

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I've been having a look at the way the mechanism works, and I'm not totally sure what the lower "touch sensors" are for.

1. When the tailgate is up, using the key fob, you can start the tailgate to close, and if you press it before it has closed, it will start to open again, and if you press it before it has fully opened, it will start to close again.

2. The "drive" unit is located in the car body and is the bit that pulls the tailgate up and pushes it down (circuit is bottom left of circuit diagram)

3. The main control unit is located in the car body

4. The "closer" unit is located inside the tailgate and is the bit that operates the "locking" mechanism once the tailgate is shut (circuit is bottom right of circuit diagram)

5. The "touch sensors" are located in the sides of the tailgate, an upper and a lower (ciruit is top right of circuit diagram).
- when the tailgate is up and you press either of the upper sensors, then the tailgate will not close.
- when the tailgate is up and you press either of the lower sensors, then the tailgate will close.

- when the tailgate is closing and you press either of the upper sensors, then the tailgate will open again.
- when the tailgate is closing and you press either of the lower sensors, then the tailgate continues to close.

- when the tailgate is opening and you press either of the upper sensors, then the tailgate continues to open.
- when the tailgate is opening and you press either of the lower sensors, then the tailgate continues to open.

I thus presume that the lower sensors are used by the main control unit to decide when to operate the "closer" unit (lock and unlock).
But I also wonder if the they are used by the main control unit as a check, when starting the drive unit to open the tailgate.

I've read some threads on trouble getting the tailgate to open on the motor, and mine has trouble opening unless you give it a slight tug.
I wonder if these lower sensors part of this type of problem ?
 

Simon2354

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Hi there,

Strangely my Tourer decided to have tailgate problems on Sunday, whereby the tailgate wouldn't close - period!!! keyfob / tailgate button - no effect. Even manually shutting the tailgate down, couldn't get it to lock. To make matters worse I was in Bristol at a large shopping Mall. After managing to fiddle with the manual release, I was able to get the tailgate locked, but couldn't open it at all (without using the manual emergency release).

In my case this lovely thread wouldn't have helped. Dropped the car at BLADE HONDA - without any appointment - Gloucester today (not expecting them to be able to fix it on first visit), but returned to pick up the car after work to be given some "Honda Happiness". Turns out the problem was a relatively easy fix - a diagnostic check found the following:

B1390 - CLOSER MOTOR FUNCTION ERROR. The tailgate was stripped out, lock motor unit removed. It was found that motor had gone out of position (exactly how I'm not sure). The whole lot was re-positioned and put back together and tested - everything hunky-dory :) Even better that the whole bill came to £43 pounds and pence. Very happy am I!!!!!!!!

Well done Blade Honda.
 

Morrisey

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Have just had another tailgate problem over 3 years later -keyfob open button generates 3 beeps but no movement, tailgate light illuminates & boot can only be opened from inside (lever). It doesn't close from an open position, neither from keyfob nor boot-button.

Solved:- the tailgate needs to be open, remove BOTH negative AND positive terminals from battery for several minutes (ten was enough), reattach pos then neg, turn key to position all (lights on dashboard) -notice that TAILGATE warning light is now off. Physically close the boot by hand, remove key from ignition
....all should now function correctly.

BTW - the cause of this error may be related to overloading the boot (weight) prior to failure. Maybe

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Morrisey

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Ignore my last post!
Problems still exist, obviously an intermittent fault
...found yet another cable had failed around the l/h hinge -take note that this was not sheared right through this time, only the cores were cut but not the insulation. (Photo taken after baring ends)


Repair done with neg (only) battery terminal removed, reconnected, keyswitch to pos ll, removed key & closed boot by hand -this reset tailgate system & everything tested OK, no problems at all.

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honda_saj

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I have been lazy and with the arrival of a new daughter must fix the boot as 2 car seats, need some motivation anyone want to meet to give a helping hand ? I am based in London but looking to travel hds is a bonus and will compensate volunteer for their time

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freddofrog

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^ the HDS can be slightly useful to check the status of the multiple switches in the "closer" mechanism, but otherwise you probably don't need HDS

other than info on the wire problems in the hinge, for trouble-shooting there's a better thread than this somewhere else, my #14 is not quite right and a thread in 2015 is better


these are useful
http://typeaccord.co.uk/forum/topic/19067-pesky-tourer-tailgate/

http://typeaccord.co.uk/forum/topic/19506-24-type-s-tourer-boot-lid/

http://typeaccord.co.uk/forum/topic/21448-tailgate-issues/
 

Stevearcade

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mcexocet said:
Hi there,

Strangely my Tourer decided to have tailgate problems on Sunday, whereby the tailgate wouldn't close - period!!! keyfob / tailgate button - no effect. Even manually shutting the tailgate down, couldn't get it to lock. To make matters worse I was in Bristol at a large shopping Mall. After managing to fiddle with the manual release, I was able to get the tailgate locked, but couldn't open it at all (without using the manual emergency release).

In my case this lovely thread wouldn't have helped. Dropped the car at BLADE HONDA - without any appointment - Gloucester today (not expecting them to be able to fix it on first visit), but returned to pick up the car after work to be given some "Honda Happiness". Turns out the problem was a relatively easy fix - a diagnostic check found the following:

B1390 - CLOSER MOTOR FUNCTION ERROR. The tailgate was stripped out, lock motor unit removed. It was found that motor had gone out of position (exactly how I'm not sure). The whole lot was re-positioned and put back together and tested - everything hunky-dory
Even better that the whole bill came to £43 pounds and pence. Very happy am I!!!!!!!!

Well done Blade Honda.
So my tailgate did this this afternoon. I opened it but then when I pressed the button to close it, it didn't respond. No noise, no bleep, nothing. I then tried to manually close it and it wouldn't close. The mechanism was stuck open so wouldn't latch. I checked the handle wasn't stuck in (which it does often on my car), it wasn't. I popped the latch mechanism access panel off and flicked the release switch. This opened the mechanism and then I could close the boot but have now lost all manual and key fob operation. Only way to open the boot is by climbing in the back and flicking the manual release switch on the mechanism behind the access panel. The "TAIL GATE" light has also come on the dash.

It happened all of a sudden. Up until this point my boot has worked perfectly since I had the boot motor replaced under warranty in 2009. It props open well too, no issue with the struts.

I'm hoping it's a mechanism issue in the latch and nothing more sinister. It's cold and dark now but will have a look at the weekend and see if I can make any sense of things.

As the boot will open and close ok with the release switch on the inside, I'm wondering if it's had a little freak out for whatever reason and just needs a reset, so first thing I'll do is pop the fuse for it out and leave it for a while to reset the ECU on the tailgate motor. From there though, I don't really know what should be the next thing to check.
 

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I've not been using my Accord for several months and coincidentally I went to get something out of the boot yesterday and the tailgate motor does not respond at all, not on the keyfob, not on the button in the tailgate. fortunately the closer system works, but otherwise the tailgate in my car seems dead. I wonder if the dreaded frayed wire issue has emerged on both our cars ?
 

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It's odd as I reckon to use the boot only 3 or 4 times a week. Which I've always thought is enough to keep things moving and not get all underused and stiff, but not too frequently as to wear things out... Maybe that's too crude a logic... My gut feeling on this is that it's latch related though as all of a sudden the latch ceased to work and it tripped the whole system into lock down. Still, if it is cabling related, I'll be very pleased! I spend half my life doing wiring for music studios and stage setups, so it's well within my comfort zone for repair. Just a faff to get to I guess...
 

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Indeed. I pulled fuse 21 out today while the car was parked at work. Went back a couple hours later, refitted it and turned the key. TAIL GATE light still on, nothing reset, so the problem's a little deeper than the boot's ECU needing rebooting (no pun intended :rolleyes: ).
 

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Update on this, I finally found the time to drop the car into Honda this morning. They reset the tailgate ECU and made me a cup of tea while I waited. This fixed the issue and they sent me on my way without charging me anything. Very nice of them. They said they don't know why it faulted and tripped the ECU and maybe there's an underlying problem, so if it goes again, further investigation will be necessary, but they're very good at my local Honda, they know me and look after me.

My only thought is that just prior to it stopping working, someone I was giving a lift to shut the boot while I went and paid for the parking. Perhaps they got did something funny, not sure of the electronic closing mechanism. Anyway, I'll keep an eye on it and fingers crossed it doesn't break again (as I need to spend some money on my suspension and possibly my clutch too in the near future).
 

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Good stuff glad tailgate is alive again mine is still dead need to sort out

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If it's a similar issue (tailgate light on dash and tailgate won't open unless with manual release on inside) then it's worth phoning Honda and explaining you need a tailgate ECU reset, and if they try to charge you, lean on them and explain you know of other people on a Honda Accord forum who've had the same job done for free.
 

honda_saj

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I have connected honda clone hd s and getting error b1390 which is tailgate closure unit need to run some tests

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finally got some time to repair the boot i initially repaired 4 wires on right side along with 1 wire on left side that were snapped, i used fresh wire, soldered longer pieces and covered with heat shrink to protect, I found i was still getting error b1390 so i followed manual and found there no continuity on 26 pin connector pins 12 and 13 on ecu to closer unit 12 pint connector pins 1 and 2, so i stripped down for further investigation, found some repair that was bodges using a black wire and 3 broken wires on left, repaired wire and reset and the tailagte worked :).

finally got some time to repair the boot i initially repaired 4 wires on right side along with 1 wire on left side that were snapped, i used fresh wire, soldered longer pieces and covered with heat shrink to protect, I found i was still getting error b1390 so i followed manual and found there no continuity on 26 pin connector pins 12 and 13 on ECU to closer unit 12 pint connector pins 1 and 2, so i stripped down for further investigation, found some repair that was bodges using a black wire and 3 broken wires on left, repaired wire and reset and the tailagte worked
.
 
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