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Brakes overheating. Garage can't fix it - can you help?

muggins1

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Location
Hampshire
Car
Accord tourer 04 2.0
My RHD 2004 Accord Tourer 2.0 petrol automatic with 135k miles (I've had it for 13 years, it's very well maintained, and I love it!) suddenly made a noise coming from the N/S R corner. I subsequently found this was the brake pad wear indicator and so I took it to my local garage (used for 11 years) for replacement rear pads. The garage phoned to say I need to replace the N/'S caliper and I said to go ahead. After collection I quickly found that both rear brakes were overheating. It went back (short story!) another 2 times when I was told that both of the calipers and also the slide pins were replaced twice, and even the new pads were replaced. The master cylinder was checked, and "the flexible pipes are clearly working as fluid is passing during bleeding". The carriers also seemed to be OK. The system was "power flushed" and then "power bled" - but still both sides were binding and overheating. The mechanic who had given the car back to me admitted that the brakes were even binding when the flexible hoses were disconnected.

The mechanics have never come across such a situation before and said they don't know what to do next. We are now discussing whether to try replacing the master cylinder.

I have spent c£450 on the rear brakes so far and, although the brakes feel fine and are effective, the car cannot be driven properly - over 45mph the rears soon get above 150-230°C, so I have to keep to relatively minor roads.

I never thought just the brakes would kill the car - Help!

muggins1
 
I've known flexible hoses to be 'passing fluid' but still causing issues so for the cheap price I would get both replaced to rule them out.
 
Thanks Grayedout - I was rather intrigued to hear from the mechanic today that he admitted that the brakes were binding even when the flexible hoses were disconnected (and he still gave the car back to me) - so that presumably discounts the hoses and the master brake cylinder (and hopefully the ABS unit!)?
 
Did they check over the handbrake operation?
 
Hi stellamon - They said they had checked the handbrake operation, so I must presume it is OK.
 
Never heard of this happening before, I can only ***ume they've fitted the wrong callipers or pads. When mine was binding I fitted a new piston and seals to the calliper and serviced the guide pins and all was well.
 
inspect the wear marks on the new pads, it helps to see where it's binding, also check guide ears and bracket for scoring
 
I've had problems with two sets of rear pads I've tried to fit to my 2004 Tourer. I find they are slightly too big and so I've needed to grind the edges down so they will move in the calipers. There's also a protrusion on the back off the inner pad which lined up with the edge of the piston. This meant when the piston hit the protrusion first which caused the pad to twist and then seize. Grinding this off solved the problem.

Check with the mechanic how tight the pads fit in the caliper and is there this protrusion?
 

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Thanks everyone - I'll raise all these points with the garage. They said they'd get back to me with a price for replacing the brake master cylinder, though I don't see why it could be that if the brakes are binding with the hoses disconnected.

Any further points welcome!
 
though I don't see why it could be that if the brakes are binding with the hoses disconnected.
Any further points welcome!
Absolutely agree, got to be handbrake or incorrectly fitted parts. I'm gathering that with new callipers they also included the guide pins.
Discs could be badly warped. I'm guessing you rely on this garage, and I realize it has cost you a lot of money already, but maybe consider taking it somewhere else.
I mean, never heard of a garage that couldn't fix brakes, how can they charge so much without fixing the problem.
Are you able to have a look yourself, ie remove the calliper and see if the disc is still binding?
 
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Yes, the slide pins were replaced (twice, I'm told, as they say they replaced everything a second time). Nobody has mentioned warped discs, although I presume I would feel them when braking, and why should they both suddenly warp when the pads were changed (not that I can be sure the brakes weren't overheating before the pads were changed). The discs were last changed 46,000 miles ago.

I cannot take the brakes apart myself - lack of confidence/space/tools/axle stands/safety/other person to bleed/my joints' flexibility etc!

I expect to speak to them again tomorrow. I'm wondering if I may be able to look at them taken apart in the garage.
 
Brakes binding can cause the disc to warp if it overheats.

At 46k the discs may have developed a lip around the outer edge that the new pads could be catching on.
If they rule out any problems with the discs, ask if they could remove the calliper and see if the disc spins freely.

Also it looks like there are 3 choices of pads depending on the model so they could have used the wrong ones however unlikely.
 
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Thanks antdad. I took a list of 12 points to my regular local garage to be checked, following the advice on this thread and after speaking to Honda service department. My local garage ***ured me thay have checked all of the items and more They have had the car 4 times now, finally saying that both the rear wheels run freely and there's nothing wrong with them. Today was my first longer distance drive, with 10+ miles at a steady 56mph. But in the lay-by the RO/S was 255°C and smelled of burning brakes. At least it's nothing like so bad at lower speeds. So I shall do a couple more faster runs and then decide whether to carry on with / accept it (until it starts smoking or something) or to get someone else to look at it. But for the first time in 11 years I am thinking of getting rid of my lovely 04 Accord Tourer 2.0EX Auto :-(((

What should I get instead? There's a low mileage 2016 Civic SR Auto Tourer available locally that is tempting me.....

Before this car I had an earlier Accord Tourer Auto for 10+ years. Any thoughts on what to downgrade to after an Accord Tourer would be welcomed!
 
Back to my previous point the flex hoses are impossible to inspect and the only thing you can do is replace them which is not a big cost.
 
Grayedout - The garage was adamant that the hoses were OK - maybe something for the next place to check out. My local garage said they were aware of the protrusion that you had pointed out (one of my 12) and they preempted me saying it wasn't there.
 
Imo, one more go with another garage as you've already invested quite alot of time and money.

Have or are the rear disks changing colour and do you feel them binding when you roll to a stop?

I'd be interested to know if your vehicle would still pass it's MOT if the brakes are still binding and what your garage would say about that but I think they are done and have run their course.
 
The discs are not changing colour. I think I can feel them binding sometimes when I'm at a standstill and I take my foot off the brake. It's an automatic and I don't think it creeps forward quite like it used to, but I'm not entirely sure.

I too have been wondering about it passing its MOT (due in 7 weeks) but I'm sure they would pass it. Whether someone else would is another matter!
 
The discs are not changing colour. I think I can feel them binding sometimes when I'm at a standstill and I take my foot off the brake. It's an automatic and I don't think it creeps forward quite like it used to, but I'm not entirely sure.

I too have been wondering about it passing its MOT (due in 7 weeks) but I'm sure they would pass it. Whether someone else would is another matter!

Mines were also binding after new discs and pads.. had to adjust the h.brake cable, everything else was fine.
 
In case anyone is following this thread, we test drove a Civic Tourer SR (uncomfortable ride), a HR-V EX (quite nice but a bit big), and a Jazz SE (quite nice but a huge step down). Our Accord, going to and from the dealer, was by far the best drive of the day. I was offered £830 for part-exchange of my car (book price for average condition).

So the car is now booked in to have new genuine Honda calipers, discs and pads @ £1,100 - but there's no guarantee that they'll fix the issue. And a couple of days ago the airbag warning light came on - which I am told might require a £800 part to fix it. Fingers crossed.
 
No, it's being done by a Honda main dealer. They recently did a 'diagnosis' of the brakes (£104) but couldn't find any reason for the calipers to be sticking. They hadn't come across this before and could only think that the cheap replacement calipers might have some sort of manufacturing problem. Their recommendation was (of course) to replace everything with genuine parts. The calipers fitted by my local garage were charged to me @ £60 (plus VAT and fitting), whereas a Honda caliper costs about £300.

The airbag recall was indeed done, by the main dealer.

There's a YouTube clip saying to clean out the seat-belt buckles with alcohol to remove the built-up crud from the sensor. I may try that after a bit more research.
 
Hi, I'll share this quickly, I had a rear caliper seize on mine, it went to a mechanic who tried everything and replaced the caliper etc etc, couldn't work out why it was still sticking on.
My only last hope was to buy a better quality caliper and do it myself, I replaced the caliper, two hoses and bled all four corners, this solved the problem. The caliper he used I'm sure had a slight leak. My advice is to buy quality calipers and bleed all corners in the correct sequence. I lubed the pins etc up with textar ceratac grease which is excellent.
 
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Hi, I'll share this quickly, I had a rear caliper seize on mine, it went to a mechanic who tried everything and replaced the caliper etc etc, couldn't work out why it was still sticking on.
My only last hope was to buy a better quality caliper and do it myself, I replaced the caliper, two hoses and bled all four corners, this solved the problem. The caliper he used I'm sure had a slight leak. My advice is to buy quality calipers and bleed all corners in the correct sequence. I lubed the pins etc up with textar ceratac grease which is excellent.

Or it could have been one of the hoses !
 
Or it could have been one of the hoses !
Hi, my bad memory as this was a few years back now but it caused me weeks of frustration, the first mechanic changed the caliper but caliper kept binding, he didn't have a clue and was suggesting all kinds of problems under the bonnet, I already paid out a lot of money to fit just a caliper. I took it to a different garage and they looked at the caliper, re-greased the pins etc and put two new hoses on, after a short drive the caliper was still binding. It caused me weeks of frustration as I had never changed a caliper before myself. I decided in a last ditch attempt to buy a new and better quality caliper and learn to fit it myself, I also filed the pads down a bit. This did work and the caliper that the mechanic put on was definitely leaking around the seal.
 
Thanks all. I am hopeful that the expensive new Honda calipers will do the trick, but they won't be available for a couple of weeks. If they don't work, I guess new hoses will be the final thing to try.
 
It can't be your brake pipes because you said you were told that the brakes were binding with those pipes disconnected.
 
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