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Cold starting issue 2.2 cdti

euroal

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suffolk
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accord tourer
My daily workhorse accord tourer 2.2 cdti has been a absolute saint up until late a few months ago.

It's on 208k but all ways been serviced and maintained well.
Recently it's been a pain to start from cold. It cranks for around 30seconds when left overnight once it's started is fine for the rest of the day. If it's left for any longer then a day will crank to the battery goes flat and then need a jump start and further cranking to get started.

I have replaced the glow plugs but no change, I think it's due a fuel filter would thus course this ?

Any help would be much appreciated cheers
 
When I return back to the car after work and it's been left 7 hours it's again hard to start crank for 15/20 seconds but not as bad as first thing in the morning.
 
Actually it would be interesting to see if you could try using some jump leads with another battery on a running engine and see if it starts any quicker first thing in the morning. That would eliminate a weak battery causing the slow cranking.
 
It's a brand new battery as originally I thought it was this so not the battery.

The battery only goes flat when the car has been left for longer then a day due to it cranks for so long without starting it's runs flat.
 
If the battery is definitely ruled out as the cause (and is definitely being charged fully)then try pumping the rubber hand bulb on the bulkhead about 30 or 40 times before trying to start a cold engine. Your symptoms might suggest a slight air leak on engine end of the fuel line (maybe a connection) is allowing the fuel to slowly drain all the way back to the tank when the car is left parked. The fuel pump then has the difficult task of having to suck the fuel back up to the engine bay again.
 
Ok so would i need to look for a leak around the pipes that connect to the fuel filter and then to the engine ?

I will try the primer in the morning.
 
I'd be inclined to check the starter motor circuit, and verify the engine is spinning up to speed when cold.

Are you able to check the relay connections and the big one that goes to the starter motor itself ?

Additionally look for corrosion at earth points from frame to engine ?
 
Could be a few things really, failing pressure relief valve (although this normally exhibits symptoms on warm start), leak in the fuel line drawing in air as suggested by Jon, slightly sticking egr valve which is not completely shutting, or a weak battery..
 
Older cars always improve with the installation of a direct earth lead from the battery to one of the the starter mounting bolts.
 
euroal said:
Ok so would i need to look for a leak around the pipes that connect to the fuel filter and then to the engine ?
I will try the primer in the morning.
It will be hard to spot the leak, as the fuel lines are always under suction. You'd need to look for damage or a bad connection around the fuel filter/fuel heater/hand pump area on the bulkhead. I've known this happen on a i-CTDi Civic... it was a leaking fuel line where the plastic pipes met at a metal section (known to rust on Civics). It will be interesting to see if pumping that bulb makes any difference!

Others are suggesting that your engine cranking is below par... do you feel that could be the case? Easy to rule out a bad earth by running a jump lead from the battery negative to something solid on the engine block.
 
It takes a lot to drain a good battery in one of those.

When I did my motor swap I had to crank it for a couple of minutes solid for it to fill the high pressure side of the fuel system.

As has been said before. Try it from cold with the battery coupled to another car.
Always best to eliminate the simplest issue first.

We had a Bosch s4 battery go belly up after only a year on the wife's civic.
I was thinking about starter rebuilds as they tire with age, and running new earth leads, tried it with a different battery and all was good.

Fitted the largest battery that'd squeeze in that part of the bay, and had an easy fix.
 
So this morning I put tried to pumpire the hand primer but after to pumps went solid.

Car was still hard to start. I'm pretty sure it's not the battery as it's new and turns over very quick. If the car is left longer then a day it will crank for around 45 50 seconds and then will start to drain where the needles on cluster move at this point I know from past experience it want fire with that power and needsee a jump.

Glow plugs replaced
Battery replaced

Would a fuel filter clogged up cause this issue as has been on there about 15k now
 
***uming it was the OEM Honda fuel filter (made by Bosch if pre-facelift or Denso if a facelift model) I cant see it being a problem. Fuel filter problems usually appear under load and are accompanied by error codes P1065 and/or P0087.

I would now be considering the EGR valve (not closing fully) or, better still, getting the car on some interactive diagnostic equipment (such as a Honda Diagnostic System) to exercise the engine sub-systems.
 
Yes was a genuine fuel filter changed at 190k.

I will check the egr valve is the a way to do this or just remove it and clean it ect.

Am i right in saying that if it was a fuel leak the primer wouldnt of been solid to push.

I was also told it could be a glow plug relay fault...
 
There are forum guides to cleaning the EGR valve, but you need to find the correct one (PFL is electric, while FL models have a vacuum-operated valve).

If the bulb was hard then you must have been presenting fuel to the fuel pump. So the car would have at least fired.

A failed glowplug relay would normally generate a P1384 error code. But easy to check if voltage is available at the glowplug connection using a meter or a lamp to chassis during cold start conditions.
 
If it's fuel, it's got to be the high pressure side if it's taking that long to fire.

You'd notice a fuel leak though at those pressures. Itd be pouring out from under the car within seconds.
 
I would blank your egr overnight so when you start in the morning and if it starts ok you can pinpoint if this is the problem or not. It is likely to trigger an error though so have a code reader to hand to clear it.
 
Maybe your glow plugs don't get power. You can check glow plug relay (I am not mechanic but probably there should be a relay for this) . Or you can use a light bulb to connect to plugs to see any power before the cranking.

Sent from my HTC One A9 using Tapatalk
 
Goodluckmonkey said:
If it's fuel, it's got to be the high pressure side if it's taking that long to fire.
You'd notice a fuel leak though at those pressures. Itd be pouring out from under the car within seconds.
True, but the feed to the lift side of the pump ***embly is always under some degree of suction. But i think we ruled that out.
 
Did you use genuine Honda plugs? These cars are very fussy about glow plugs, although non standard plugs normally result in error code p1384..
 
Try this! get a long lead wire from the garage/kitchen, whatever to the car, sneak the wifes hair dryer or your paint stripper out to it, lift bonnet play warm air onto manifolds, yes I know you will have to reach over the engine, after a few minutes see if it starts, if it does then your preheaters are not working. Someone on here suggested a few weeks back that the glow plugs were not necessary and he just jumped in and turned to "start" with no waiting for the coil symbol to go out. now if that is the case why would Honda fit that system? Another dodge will be to insert the key turn to preheat, until the coil symbol goes out, then go back to off and then give it another reheat, see if that works.

Hope you find the problem.
 
If it turns but doesn't fire easily it's probably air getting into the system somewhere or low fuel pressure. I've got this current problem with my van.

Get to a mechanic and prime to engine to fire and see what level of fuel pressure you get in the rails. Then start the car and see what happens to the pressure. This will help eliminate a few of the things it could be.

Also as has been suggested remove and clean the EGR as a fault with this will give you less pressure in the rails than is needed to start the car. Compression test, injector test to check back flow, high pressure fuel pump etc etc.

I've still not found the problem with my van, but have the same symptoms with it.
 
The EGR valve has no influence over the fuel rail pressure. The fuel rail pressure target whilst cranking is 300 bar, but only 200 bar is actually required for the ECU to enable the injectors. During running under load the fuel rail target rises to 1600 bar, so a worn fuel pump would tend to show up when under load.

Typical reasons for the fuel rail pressure to fail to achieve the 200 bar minimum whilst cranking are either the fuel rail over-pressure valve leaking, or the injectors having too much leak-back flow BUT both these fairly common problems would usually affect a hot/warm engine, at least to begin with. I guess there could be an unusual failure mode of, say, the over-pressure relief valve that only happens cold, but that is unlikely. But this failure to start cold and be OK when warm, is unusual...

An OBD scanner with a real-time capability would reveal if the fuel rail pressure is failing to reach 200 bar under cranking. Or better still, getting the car on an HDS should pinpoint what else could be failing.

Have you tried easy-start spray? Not convenient as a routine thing, but it would be useful to know if it fires up immediately when inhaling that.
 
F6HAD said:
Did you use genuine Honda plugs? These cars are very fussy about glow plugs, although non standard plugs normally result in error code p1384..
Yes they where genuine honda glow plugs .
 
Jon_G said:
The EGR valve has no influence over the fuel rail pressure. The fuel rail pressure target whilst cranking is 300 bar, but only 200 bar is actually required for the ECU to enable the injectors. During running under load the fuel rail target rises to 1600 bar, so a worn fuel pump would tend to show up when under load.

Typical reasons for the fuel rail pressure to fail to achieve the 200 bar minimum whilst cranking are either the fuel rail over-pressure valve leaking, or the injectors having too much leak-back flow BUT both these fairly common problems would usually affect a hot/warm engine, at least to begin with. I guess there could be an unusual failure mode of, say, the over-pressure relief valve that only happens cold, but that is unlikely. But this failure to start cold and be OK when warm, is unusual...

An OBD scanner with a real-time capability would reveal if the fuel rail pressure is failing to reach 200 bar under cranking. Or better still, getting the car on an HDS should pinpoint what else could be failing.

Have you tried easy-start spray? Not convenient as a routine thing, but it would be useful to know if it fires up immediately when inhaling that.
Iv not personally tried easy start where would i spray it directly into intake ?

I dont personally dont like the stuff iv heard many horror storys.

I am going to remove and clean the egr valve the weekend hoping this may help as its a fault thats starting to get on my nevres now.
 
Check the starter motor circuit first. It might save you a few hours.

There used to be a problem with the early Honda V4s (the starter was wound backwards owing to the design of the crankcase) and these were notorious for some windings going awol that would slow down the cranking and buckle battery plates
 
euroal said:
Iv not personally tried easy start where would i spray it directly into intake ?
I dont personally dont like the stuff iv heard many horror storys.
I am going to remove and clean the egr valve the weekend hoping this may help as its a fault thats starting to get on my nevres now.
Yeah, I can imagine!

Easy-start is very harsh on a diesel, and it's easy to use too much. The common view that engines can become 'addicted' is obviously nonsense but it does need to be respected and only used in very short bursts while the engine is being cranked by an ***istant. I'd lift up the top of the air filter box (like you're replacing the filter) and spray it into the opening, onto the filter.
 
As mentioned, a leaking fuel rail over-pressure valve is the most common reason for poor starting on the i-CTDi engine, however this is more usually a problem for warm starts. But it is a very simple thing to rule out... http://www.civinfo.com/forum/how/111264-how-diagnose-replace-faulty-over-pressure-relief-valve-2006-2-2-i-ctdi.html

Shame about the pictures missing on the first post, but hopefully you get the idea. It is something I'd want to rule out, especially as you are happy with the engine cranking speed and also appear to have ruled out the fuel line draining back to the tank.
 
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