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Disable EGR

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Dangerstevie

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Accord SE Executive
I have searched this forum and others and I have only found that people clean the EGR system on these accords. Why is it that you don't just block them off as per the mondeo TDCI's and other modern TD's? I will be cleaning out the intake manifold and EGR syetem over the next few weeks and don't want to have to do it again so I want to block off the EGR valve when I clean it all out.
Thanks in advance.
 
Dangerstevie said:
I have searched this forum and others and I have only found that people clean the EGR system on these accords. Why is it that you don't just block them off as per the mondeo TDCI's and other modern TD's? I will be cleaning out the intake manifold and EGR syetem over the next few weeks and don't want to have to do it again so I want to block off the EGR valve when I clean it all out.
Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...
If you block EGR valve,you have engine management light on your dashboard.And car can make 2000revs.
 
I just read now,that you have 6th gen accord.
 
What if it is blocked after the valve so the valve still sees the pressure from the exhaust and will still lift as required by the ECU. Will that still flag up the MIL? Does anyone know what criteria relating to the EGR trigger the MIL?
 
Why would you want to block it off on a petrol engine, they dont make loads of the oil sludge as a diesel does?

Might cause MoT emissions problems also.
 
The NOx emissions as far as i am aware are not monitored in the MOT test, the EGR is oily and sludgy enough to cause a build-up of *****. I will be cleaning it out as a matter of course but i do want to remove it as it does reduce MPG and BHP. Even if i gain 1 mpg or 1 bhp it will be worthwhile.
 
I blocked the EGR on my 93 Accord, running and H22a.

It may be irrelevant as it's an older engine, but so long as the EGR is still connected, the ECU doesn't throw a code. I know for sure my engine doesn't have a "flow" meter for the EGR system, so it cannot tell if it is blocked or not. What engine is in your Accord?

The EGR system, as I understand it, does nothing but reduce NOx emissions (Not currently tested in the UK). A dirty, blocked or otherwise faulty EGR system causes lumpy running, reduced power and reduced MPG. Blocking the EGR the way I have, increases power, MPG and generally let's the engine perform better. It's been a vast improvement since fitting it.
 
Clean it and leave it connected unless your going for a remap.

No egr is bad for your engine on honda maps
 
All cleaned out now....it was a bit fiddly with the wiring harness above the fuel rail but not too difficult. All of the EGR ports into the head were completely blocked as was the main "transfer" passage in the EGR block on the manifold, but suprisingly NO engine management light. I checked the system with my diagnostics to double check the bulb hadn't just gone and it was all ok with no faults.
The car seems to pull smoother from low rpm but i also changed the spark plugs at the same time so i ***ume the benefit I'm feeling is due to that.
I will give out a word of caution though! IF YOU REMOVE YOUR INJECTORS FROM YOUR FUEL RAIL MAKE SURE YOU LUBRICATE BOTH O-RINGS ON EACH INJECTOR BEFORE RE-INSTALLING THEM INTO THE RAIL AND MANIFOLD, IF YOU DO NOT LUBRICATE THEM THEY CAN SPLIT AND CAUSE A MAJOR FIRE HAZARD WITH PRESSURISED FUEL LEAKING INTO YOUR ENGINE BAY!

When i removed my injectors and gave them a clean i failed to lubricate them when re-installing and 2 of them split, i fired it up and all was ok, drove 14 miles and could smell fuel when i got home, opened the bonnet to find a huge amount of fuel all over my intake manifold, head and dripping down onto my hot exhaust! This annoyed me somewhat because i know that i should have lubed them and didn't because they seemed to go back in nice and easy without having to force them. I have since replaced the two o-rings with generic ones that do not fit quite right and are not made from Viton as the OE ones are. These replacements i have fitted are a temporary fix whilst my new kit is on the way.
LESSON LEARNED........DON'T CUT ANY CORNERS BECAUSE IT TAKES LONGER AND COSTS MORE IN THE LONG RUN. (For the minute it saved me not lubing them I could have burned my car to the ground!)
 
Good info there Stevie...

My EGR and ports is on my to do list. What did you lube the o-ring with, I heard engine oil mentioned as well as silicone spray. I was going to use the latter.


Funnily enough I was reading about EGRs last night regarding 'engine knock' and the symptons of a blocked EGR are higher combustion temperatures. I'm getting a rattle that I just can't trace so EGR will be my next mission :rolleyes:

from http://www.aa1car.com/library/spark_knock.htm
 
Lucky there Stevie.

Hey Andy what kind of rattle do you have?

Anybody who blocks the egr will have fuelling issues as the map sensor knows how much air is in the engine and will fuel accordingly.But if the egr is blocked the measured "air" will not match what the ecu thinks is there.
Of course the ecu can cope with that by adjusting fuel trims but its making the ecu work harder and possibly give drivability symtoms as well as wasted fuel.
Anyway egr isnt used at wot so theres actually more benefits of having egr than not imo.
 
Daveybee said:
.

Hey Andy what kind of rattle do you have?
Click to expand...

Hi

Its a 'marbles in a can' type of rattle. When its happening if I come off the gas it stops or if I accelerate away it seems to briefly rattle quicker, quicker, quicker then it stops and the engine just purrs along.

It doesn't happen all the time but generally under load more often than not going up hill. I've strapped the cat heatshield which had rotted on the corners, checked valve clearances, checked for play in the driveshafts. My big fear is a main bearing.

Its silent at idle or revving so was thinking that I might hear bearings or tappets but nothing. I've hammered about the exhaust with a rubber mallet at the downpipe and flex-joint but it looks solid.

I am going to recheck my valve clearances, if anything I was on the tighter side of spec than looser. Then EGR, the only thing not done..

The car has full Honda Service History till 67000miles, and then my own service history with OEM parts, oil changed twice a year with 2-3000miles only on it so now at 86000mile no shrapnel or anything visible.

No EML , ODBII clear.
 
I have a rattle too.
Its mainly noticable on light load in second gear around 2500 rpm.
Ive done all the checks you have and even fitted an oil pressure gauge and vacuum but it doesnt show anything when the rattle occurs.

In hot weather its not as noticable so im guessing a clearence issue.
Really annoying.

Mine seems too be in the head.
Ive heard of lmas going bad.
Id like to get the vtec locked in at 2500rpm to see if it still rattles but im not sure if it can be done.

I have a spare egr valve from an f20 b6 ,so I might try that first and see.
Hopfully its the same as the f20b2.
:)
 
I've never heard of the egr causing a rattle unless the plates come loose. I would check all heat shields, engine mounts & clips of any kind.
The lube I used was a lithium grease, you can use clean engine oil or even spit but I personally use lithium grease, it's cheap, VERY slippy and I've never had any issues with it.
It's also VERY good at stopping the corrosion build up on coilovers and adjustable spring perches where you tend to have alloy to steel contact that causes corrosion by electrolysis. A thin smear and jobs a good un..,no more corrosion.
 
Daveybee said:
I have a rattle too.
Its mainly noticable on light load in second gear around 2500 rpm.
Ive done all the checks you have and even fitted an oil pressure gauge and vacuum but it doesn't show anything when the rattle occurs.

In hot weather its not as noticable so im guessing a clearence issue.
Really annoying.

Mine seems too be in the head.
Ive heard of lmas going bad.
Id like to get the vtec locked in at 2500rpm to see if it still rattles but im not sure if it can be done.

I have a spare egr valve from an f20 b6 ,so I might try that first and see.
Hopfully its the same as the f20b2.
:)
Click to expand...


Aye same RPM range and speeds. The engine is absolutely fine all other times.

It does sound like its the head and was expecting some slop at TDC in the the valve train but it felt very snug if a little too tight. I've heard of the B series burning valves due to them tightening down over time.

I had my EGR valve off last year, and was a bit dirty but not extreme but still cleaned it out. The ports I never got round to as I wanted to have new o-rings and seals for the injectors before removing the fuel rail, so thats the EGR part that I've got left to do.

I'll also need to investigate the knock sensor (firstly is it even working) and then see if it can distinguish valve rattle, pinging/pinking and/or rod knock.
 
AndyB1976 said:
I'll also need to investigate the knock sensor (firstly is it even working) and then see if it can distinguish valve rattle, pinging/pinking and/or rod knock.
Click to expand...

Any idea on how to diagnose the knock sensor?
 
Dangerstevie said:
I've never heard of the egr causing a rattle unless the plates come loose. I would check all heat shields, engine mounts & clips of any kind.
The lube I used was a lithium grease, you can use clean engine oil or even spit but I personally use lithium grease, it's cheap, VERY slippy and I've never had any issues with it.
It's also VERY good at stopping the corrosion build up on coilovers and adjustable spring perches where you tend to have alloy to steel contact that causes corrosion by electrolysis. A thin smear and jobs a good un..,no more corrosion.
Click to expand...

Hi Stevie

I don't think its a physical rattle from the EGR or ***ociated components.

I understand pinking/pinging is caused due to the cylinder being too hot inside. A working EGR comprising of valve and clear ports should allow exhaust gas to recirculate into the intake manifold via the ports - the ports that are often blocked with carbon. This should have a two fold benefit, of burning off exhaust gases and secondly diluting the atmospheric intake, less oxygen, lower temperatures.

Therefore the rattle (pinking/detonation) is a consequence of an EGR problems but not necessarily the sole cause of it.
 
skhell said:
Any idea on how to diagnose the knock sensor?
Click to expand...

http://www.aa1car.com/library/spark_knock.htm

They suggest tapping around it and looking at timing signals.

I had a 'Timing Advance' value running on Torque/Android earlier whilst driving and it was jumping around, it didn't seem specific to speed or RPMs. I am going to try and log or graph these values and hope I can find find a link. ;)
 
OK

Here is what I am looking at

1. the basics of ignition timing

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/ignition-system1.htm

2.Advancing timing

http://www.miata.net/garage/KnowYourCar/S10_Timing.html

Now ***uming that the EGR is blocked, therefore more oxygen in the cylinder, higher temperatures leading to detonation of fuel/air mix.
 
I doubt the EGR malfunctioning would lead to det, det is more usually caused by hot spots in the cylinder. ie build up of carbon on the head, valves, plugs etc. It can also be caused by poor quality fuel, bad or wrong grade spark plugs, worn injectors (bad spray pattern, blocked pintle cap, blocked filters etc).
You could do with getting some diagnostics connected with live reading capability (like mine) and go for a drive and watch the readings to see what the ignition timing is doing and what the fuel correction values are doing. Even if you were to disconnect the EGR completely i doubt it would lead to any kind of det problem.
 
I have got a TRW easycheck with CAN controller and also a Toughbook with a selectiono f modules and different programs including scantool+ and some other generic progs. Before i started work full time as a design engineer at Rolls-Royce I set up my own business as a mobile diagnostics specialist and I now just use the diagnostics as and when necessary. I still have my website but i don't actively promote my business as its not my sole income anymore and i would rather spend the time with my kids and wife. If you ever find youself down my neck of the woods we can connect up and see what the stuff says.
 
Cheers for the offer, puts my Torque to shame lol ;)

I'll clean out the EGR anyway, it will need doing. Then valve check again. Ultimately it will have to go in for a diagnosis :rolleyes:
 
I would really like to see the "Timing advance" with an OBD reader, but unfortunately my Accord doesn't have an OBD socket... just has a 3 pin socket. A faulty knock-sensor could be the cause of the excessive fuel consumption... but it will not be easy to diagnose :mad:

Steve: since you are an expert on diagnostics, do you know any way of connecting an OBD reader to this 3 pin socket? I know that one of the pins is connected to the K-Line, but I have no idea what to do with it. I tried an adapter from the 3 pin to OBD socket but no luck. I even took apart the adapter and change the winging, still nothing...
 
not a clue i'm afraid....are you sure there is no 16pin obd socket? on our UK cars its on the passenger side of the centre console just in front of the passenger seat under a little flap of carpet.
On some cars, i'm not sure about the accord it will actually tell you when certain activations happen, like ABS active, ESP active etc etc. Ill connect mine up tonight and have a look.
 
Dangerstevie said:
not a clue i'm afraid....are you sure there is no 16pin obd socket? on our UK cars its on the passenger side of the centre console just in front of the passenger seat under a little flap of carpet.
On some cars, i'm not sure about the accord it will actually tell you when certain activations happen, like ABS active, ESP active etc etc. Ill connect mine up tonight and have a look.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I am sure there isn't a 16 pin obd socket. I found the place where it should be, but it's not there. I looked all over the place, followed every possible wires, and no luck... Also, I am not the only one with this situation, other members in the forum have the same issue...
 
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