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has my alternator seized or my engine?

C

colin100

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2004 i-ctdi tourer
Im new to the forum so forgive mw if this has been discussed before! My 2004 i-ctdi started making a chug chug sort of noise and started making loud squeaking noises. Took it a local garage and they said it was the alternator and I could drive it until I got a refurbished one which has arrived. So I drive the car a little and the noise became very loud and the engine ground to a halt! Tried to start the car but it was like the battery was flat as it struggled to turn the engine. The recovery man said the battery was fine and suggested the engine may have seized as if it was the alternator then the belt would just slip. The belt is routed the old way which I have found out causes the bearings in the alternator to seize. Is it possible the belt is so tight that it cant slip and hence I cant start the engine ***uming the alternator has seized.
 
A seized alternator I wouldn't stop the car from starting. You would get smoke from the belt and it'll shred it to bits.



I'm guessing you have checked the oil in your car and the low oil pressure light did not come on.

You car needs diagnosing properly, I would not attempt starting it in the meantime.

edit... It sounds as though the roadside didn't try starting it with a different battery? It could be a combination of failed alternator/weak battery. But still you need to rule out something serious.
 
Hi Colin, welcome to TypeAccord, but sorry about the circumstances that brought you here.

As Sal says, a seized alternator would not directly prevent the car from starting and, if seized, would not have stopped the engine running.

Hopefully what's happened is that the alternator has completely failed and led to the battery becoming flat. Odd that the recovery man didn't try a jump start, but sometimes they aren't interested.

If you're feeling brave, you could simply try charging the battery and giving it a go, but I'd first try to establish that the engine hadn't become partially seized by maybe selecting top gear (ignition and handbrake off) and seeing if you can make the engine turn by gently pushing the car a few feet (either backwards or forwards). Do not try this if the oil pressure light had previously come on during the breakdown,
 
Until a couple of years ago I would have said the same thing. Then I saw a Clio diesel where a siezed alternator had done precisely this. The engine wouldn't turn over and there was no slipping from the belt.

Only one way to be sure - take the belt off, re-charge the battery and then try to turn the engine over. You've very little to lose, if the engine is siezed it'll need major attention or replacement anyway.

Alan
 
^^ totally agree with Alan on this

also if you have access to a diagnostic device check for any codes first as there may be something that points towards the cause
 
colin100 said:
The recovery man said the battery was fine and suggested the engine may have seized as if it was the alternator then the belt would just slip.
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how did the "recovery man" check the battery ?
did the "recovery man" recover the car back to your house, if so, how far ?

IMO if he tested the battery with a tester and then decided that car had to be taken back to your house, then on that basis he knew what he was talking about.

I honestly cannot see a battery for a diesel (in good condition) to not be able to turn over a diesel engine unless the engine is itself seized. The torque from a starter motor on a diesel is immense, Jon_G will attest to this (in his thread on replacing the timing chains, he had to use the starter to undo the pulley bolt, and in the process he broke two breaker bars using that method).
 
Thanks for all your help everybody. The recovery man did check the battery with his little.box of magic and also tried to start the car using his powerpack so Im very worry the engine has seized. He then towed me back to my house. IM going to take the belt off this evening and try what Alan suggested and try to get the engine to turn with the belt on. The garage cant take the car until Wednesday so it could be an agonising wait to find out the problem. Ill let your all know how it goes and if taking the belt off gets me anywhere in diagnosing the fault.
 
I also should say no warning lights came on and the oil levels are fine. The car has been maintained correctly etc!
 
About 4 years ago in the really bad winter when it was -20C my engine wouldn't turn over when I tried to start it.

The callout guy said it was due to a seized alternator and freed it up by whacking the alternator with a hammer!

It did the trick and then the engine started just fine.
 
Ok so I just had a go at getting the belt off and its to tricky for me to do as Im no mechanic. The belt has definitely been slipping as I noticed some melted rubber on the tensioner pulley. I rolled the car down the driveway as its on a hill and the engine definitely turned and noticed the battery seemed flat as the lights etc were struggling to come on. It has been suggested to me that there is a bad earth somewhere which is stoping it starting which would make sense as the recovery man tried to start the car in vain with his powerpack. Ill just have to wait until Wednesday when the garage can have a proper look. Thanks everybody for your suggestions. Its much appreciated and ill post later in the to say what the final outcome is!
 
Cliffordski said:
About 4 years ago in the really bad winter when it was -20C my engine wouldn't turn over when I tried to start it.

The callout guy said it was due to a seized alternator and freed it up by whacking the alternator with a hammer!

It did the trick and then the engine started just fine.
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like me, you have a 2.4, the battery in the 2.4 is really pathetic, take a look at the battery in the diesel, it's massive


colin100 said:
Ok so I just had a go at getting the belt off and its to tricky for me to do as Im no mechanic. The belt has definitely been slipping as I noticed some melted rubber on the tensioner pulley. I rolled the car down the driveway as its on a hill and the engine definitely turned and noticed the battery seemed flat as the lights etc were struggling to come on. It has been suggested to me that there is a bad earth somewhere which is stoping it starting which would make sense as the recovery man tried to start the car in vain with his powerpack. Ill just have to wait until Wednesday when the garage can have a proper look. Thanks everybody for your suggestions. Its much appreciated and ill post later in the to say what the final outcome is!
Click to expand...
the fact that the battery/earth is faulty is good news, if it was fully charged with a good earth I wouldn't expect the belt to stop that huge battery from giving enough current to provide the torque to turn the engine over.
 
I didn't think a clutch type alternator could seize solid?

Good plan to remove the belt and turn engine.
 
Colin - to eliminate the bad earth issue connect a jump lead between the battery negative terminal and a clean bit of the engine block. That'll act as temporary good earth and will show if you've got an earthing problem.

Salim - the alternator has a one-way clutch. It rotates freely in one direction but is solid in the the other so, yes, the alternator can sieze solid.

Alan
 
Alan I have had the car towed down to the garage already so wont be able to try that unfortunately! Ill let you all know what the final verdict is!
 
After all my hair has fallen out through the week today I got good news! The alternator had indeed seized and was preventing the engine turning over! What a mighty relief! Now I can hear the engine again! Bad news there is slight tick tick tick sound! But at least its running fine! Will need to investigate this new sound! The mechanic suggested it might be the timing chain. Thanks for all your help and suggestions regarding the alternator/engine! What a great forum.
 
I'm amazed that the alternator could have locked up the engine like this!

Ticking noises might also be a leaking injector seal or a cracked exhaust manifold... both are known problems with this engine, more so the manifold.
 
Jon_G said:
I'm amazed that the alternator could have locked up the engine like this!
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battery was probably not fully charged.... "recovery man" would only know if it was totally flat
 
Yes in quite amazed as well Jon! Amazed in a good way though! Brian the "recovery man did check the battery and said it was and also tried to start it with his powerpack but it didn't start. By the time I got the car to the garage it was flat with lights being on etc. It is entirely possible the battery wasn't charging before the breakdown though and might have been partiality flat.

Jon I have heard the exaust manifold is a comon fault so I will need to check that out. Never heard about the injector seal. Is there anyway to diagnose these faults?
 
My last post is meant to say the recovery man check the battery and said it was fine.
 
I don' really trust those power packs :mellow:
out of interest was he AA or RAC, and if so, was he in one of their vans, or was he a local sub-contractor (they use local sub-contractors when they're very busy)
 
Green flag and they use local sub-contractors with their own pick up truck. It is possible my battery didn't have enough charge in it although he did check it. His power pack might have been rubbish but who knows! Its working now and Im very happy. Just this tick tick sound to keep an eye on!
 
Power packs are the nuts , they usually give waaay more power than the battery in the car . Mine gives out 1100 cranking amps which is enough to start a 700 odd HP scania , so it manages my honda just fine when it has been sat for a few weeks unused .
 
colin100 said:
...Jon I have heard the exaust manifold is a comon fault so I will need to check that out. Never heard about the injector seal. Is there anyway to diagnose these faults?
Click to expand...
The manifold leaking gives a smell of exhaust fumes through the ventilation system, especially when cold. Also, fumes can be seen rising from the rear of the engine when an ***istant starts the engine from cold.

A leaking injector seal/gasket can be identified by removing the engine cover (four 10mm AF nuts, make sure you take the washers off carefully!) and checking for signs of gunge encrusting the affected injector. Also causes a smell through the ventilation.
 
Thank you Jon. That's my weekend job then! Ive not noticed any smells though.
 
ToothlessDrunk said:
Power packs are the nuts , they usually give waaay more power than the battery in the car . Mine gives out 1100 cranking amps which is enough to start a 700 odd HP scania
Click to expand...
you should be able to bump-start one of those on your own, you lose your man-card if you can't :lol:
 
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