What's new

Help intermittent loss of Power iCDTI

Nigel B

Members
Messages
19
Reaction score
0
Location
Twyford Bekshire
Car
Accord iCDTI
I posted a problem with my car some time ago on related site in that occasionally it looses a power. The symptom is that after accelerating normally you cruise to say a roundabout and apply power again and nothing is there, sometimes baking off and accelerating again cures it. When this happens not enough air is getting in and runs rich, well it failed the MOT on emissions so I finally put it into to Honda who suspected the MAS and EGR, it seems to be symptomatic of an EGR sticking, They changed the MAS and then the EGR and it still has the problem they recon they have tried everything, taking pressure readings etc and sending to Honda HQ but they cannot work it out. Now they suspect the turbo or the cat. I just don’t see it as it is intermittent it is more like the control to the EGR, I wonder if it is possible to bypass it or remove the control without it going into limp mode. They have had the car for nearly 3 weeks and I getting fed up. They have today bypassed the EGR and I am awaiting the results and will keep you guys uptodate with progress but in the meantime any suggestions would be appreciated I am currently at my wits end…
 
Not sure myself but would be interested to find out. Hope you get this sorted
 
Well what are their diagnostics telling them? Which dealership is it?
 
The diagnosticas are saying that when the problem occurs there is not enough air getting into the system, they have done vacume tests (mitivac or something) everything is OK until it happens. The dealership is John Banks Honda in Cambridge which is near my office is. The car does have an elite remap and all the guys that have test driven it say that when it is working it is one of the quickest thay have driven. Apparantly they have worked on the car for 12 hours...nightmare.
 
I'm sorry to say I'm not too familiar with diesel problems :), but i think i recall a software update for the egr system...how old is your car?, but need some more info.Is there anything else ***ociated with it or does it happen in a certain gear at certain revs? does it jerk or judder sometimes? or is it just simply like if you press the pedal the car just still goes the same speed or what?

There are also issues when you don't change the fuel filter every service any idea when it was changed? if not maybe a change is in order and also maybe run some diesel treatment through the tank.
 
Nigel who did the remap? Was this happening pre-remap too? I think in fairness you should return it stock before you let Honda run in depth diagnostics on it..
 
hmm....it sounds like it could be related to a turbo problem(if it is you would of realised a drop in torque in the lowere revs too),does your revs build up enough to let the turbo kick in...???or do the revs also die(s similar prblem on 1.5 nissan almera's, where the fault is the throttle sensor)... other than that brother when was last service and also the fuel filter(fuel filter seems to cause alot of head for people when not changed).....
 
nigel mate if you cant find nothing here try posting on the turbo diesel owners club, tdoc.co.uk for further help...treally sorry to hear that nigel b... B)
 
As a minimum I would expect the dealer to have checked/renewed the fuel filter before anything else. Nearly every problem we see relating to intermittent loss of power with this engine is down to restricted fuel supply.
 
there seems to be a few posts on honest john regarding this problem with powerloss alan....!!!.... :(
 
it could be one of several things....

Lack of fuel (by fuel filter) causing insufficient fueling....

Turbo Variable nossel actuator has stopped working or has a fault,

fuel pump issue
 
Many thanks for all your suggestions, I think it was Andy fro elite emaps, he was the owner and i got it done on the back of one of teh seeions that Fahad organised, but he came down to me. Graet guy and certainly new his stuff. The garage say that they have changed the fuel filter as well and done any ECU updates. They do suspect the turbo as it has variable veigns but power and performance are fine when it is working. I believe they are controlled by a vacume, but what is weird is that if you turm of the ignition switch quickly (when it has bogged down) all is well. It seems to get worse when the car is warm or in hot weather
 
Nigel, I checked with Dave and he confirmed he remapped your car around 18 months ago now at the club remap day that Adam organised (LOL @ your memory).

If the dealer has done ECU updates, you will have lost your remap anyway..

I think it's time to visit another dealer - we have a club affiliation with the best Honda dealer in the country, Holdcroft Honda in Stoke. Might be a trek, but if they can't fix the problem... I don't think anyone can.

Also, just because the dealer has said they've changed the fuel filter doesn't mean they have. I also find it absurd that their method of diagnosis involves fitting brand new parts which were never needed in the first place!

How much has this trial and error guessing game on the part of the dealer cost you so far? If this is how they operate, what is the point of going to a dealer.. you could have bought the diagnostic tools and done this yourself.
 
Just waiting for a call from them now, yup it was Dave, he was very helpful and actually came to my house in the end, guess if I get this sorted I will have to tap him up for a further map.

Will keep you posted, I apprciate you following up with Dave,

Nigel


Nigel
 
The latest, just got off the phone, yesterday I said to them that I suspected the control of EGR and recommended that they took the spare one they have and strap it to next to the one fitted and move the control connection over well guess what all is well. They say they got back onto Honda HQ and they are stuck but believe it is the Turbo, cannot see that myself !!!! so what governs the control and switching of the EGR does it go via a relay and this could be sticking?
 
Nigel, what year is your car? The facelift cars have an electronically controlled EGR and I believe the pre facelift have a vacum operated one.
 
Nigel, what year is your car? The facelift cars have an electronically controlled EGR and I believe the pre facelift have a vacum operated one.
Other way round Fahad. Pre-facelift are electrically operated and the facelift ones are vacum. :lol:
 
Hi there it is a 2005 and has an electronic EGR operated by a solenoid. Interstingly I think the latest versions of the engines (my bro has a 2008 CRV) are operated by vacume, guess I could swap the engines as he has moved abroad and left me to sell it :lol:
 
Sorry my bad but you get my drift :lol:
 
Sounds like a plan Nigel!

Really hope you make some progress and it doesn't cost you too much more.
 
Thanks I will be sure to post the results stilll trying to work out how the electronic control is driven. The dealership has given me a civic, I am not back in Cambridge until Monday now so it will be another week. They have ***ured me that they will not charge me for all the labour but i am sure there will be a fight, considering I suggested the way of by passing the EGR, Myabe I should take it up directly with Honda UK
 
nigel b some info for you regarding the egr on diesels.....

In modern diesel engines, the EGR gas is cooled through a heat exchanger to allow the introduction of a greater mass of recirculated gas. Unlike SI engines, diesels are not limited by the need for a contiguous flamefront; furthermore, since diesels always operate with excess air, they benefit from EGR rates as high as 50% (at idle, where there is otherwise a very large amount of excess air) in controlling NOx emissions.[citation needed]

Since diesel engines are unthrottled, EGR does not lower throttling losses in the way that it does for SI engines (see above). However, exhaust gas (largely carbon dioxide and water vapor) has a higher specific heat than air, and so it still serves to lower peak combustion temperatures. There are trade offs however. Adding EGR to a diesel reduces the specific heat ratio of the combustion gases in the power stroke. This reduces the amount of power that can be extracted by the piston. EGR also tends to reduce the amount of fuel burned in the power stroke. This is evident by the increase in particulate emissions that corresponds to an increase in EGR. Particulate matter (mainly carbon) that is not burned in the power stroke is wasted energy. Stricter regulations on particulate matter(PM) call for further emission controls to be introduced to compensate for the PM emissions introduced by EGR. The most common is particulate filters in the exhaust system that result in reduced fuel efficiency. Since EGR increases the amount of PM that must be dealt with and reduces the exhaust gas temperatures and available oxygen these filters need to function properly to burn off soot, automakers have had to consider injecting fuel and air directly into the exhaust system to keep these filters from plugging up.[citation needed]

hope this helps you a bit more mate with more info....
 
some more interesting info regarding the diesel egr:

EGR implementations
Usually, an engine recirculates exhaust gas by piping it from the exhaust manifold to the inlet manifold. This design is called external EGR. A control valve (EGR Valve) within the circuit regulates and times the gas flow. Some engine designs perform EGR by trapping exhaust gas within the cylinder by not fully expelling it during the exhaust stroke, which is called internal EGR. A form of internal EGR is used in the rotary Atkinson cycle engine.[citation needed]

EGR can also be implemented by using a variable geometry turbocharger (VGT) which uses variable inlet guide vanes to build sufficient backpressure in the exhaust manifold. For EGR to flow, a pressure difference is required across the intake and exhaust manifold and this is created by the VGT.[citation needed]

Another method that has been experimented with, is using a throttle in a turbocharged diesel engine to decrease the intake pressure, thereby initiating EGR flow.[citation needed]

Early (1970s) EGR systems were unsophisticated, utilizing manifold vacuum as the only input to an on/off EGR valve; reduced performance and/or drivability were common side effects. Slightly later (mid 1970s to carbureted 1980s) systems included a coolant temperature sensor which didn't enable the EGR system until the engine had achieved normal operating temperature (presumably off the choke valve and therefore less likely to block the EGR passages with carbon buildups, and a lot less likely to stall due to a cold engine). Many added systems like "EGR timers" to disable EGR for a few seconds after a full-throttle acceleration. Vacuum reservoirs and "vacuum amplifiers" were sometimes used, adding to the maze of vacuum hoses under the hood. All vacuum-operated systems, especially the EGR due to vacuum lines necessarily in close proximity to the hot exhaust manifold, were highly prone to vacuum leaks caused by cracked hoses; a condition that plagued early 1970s EGR-equipped cars with bizarre reliability problems (stalling when warm or cold, stalling or misfiring under partial throttle, etc.). Hoses in these vehicles would be checked by doing a vacuum leak test or pressure smoke test, with a professional smoke generator. When testing, smoke escapes from the hose being tested or the vacuum test gauge indicates a particular hose is leaking.[citation needed]

Modern systems utilizing electronic engine control computers, multiple control inputs, and servo-driven EGR valves typically improve performance/efficiency with no impact on drivability.[citation needed]

In the past, a fair number of car owners disconnected their EGR systems in an attempt for better performance and some still do. The belief is either EGR reduces power output, causes a build-up in the intake manifold, or believe that the environmental impact of EGR outweighs the Nitrous Oxide emission reductions. Disconnecting an EGR system is usually as simple as unplugging an electrically operated valve or inserting a ball bearing into the vacuum line in a vacuum-operated EGR valve. In most modern engines, disabling the EGR system will cause the computer to display a check engine light. In most cases, a disabled EGR system will cause the car to fail an emissions test
 
Thanks Sufian for the explanations, I certainly know a little more about the systems, I notice that you run an iCDTi, can you be more specific about the system in the Accord, mine is electroniclly operated (not the later vacume type) and have you come across any issues that could point to the symptoms described earlier in the thread... I appreciate your earlier responses
Nigel
 
The latest, the garage have just called and now they are convinced it is the Turbo, they blanked of the EGR and extended the control to an EGR that they could sit in the passenger seat, they said that could see it operating correctly (originally they said it was OK when they blanked the EGR although now they say it is still there but not so bad) Honda Technical experts agree it is the turbo, so I have started another thread "advice on turbos" was wondering if it is the veigns sticking would an adative help....really frustrated

Nigel
 
sorry to hearv that mate i replyed on your other post sorry for late reply..
 
Well the latest is that I picked up the car and said that I would live with it for now, got them to throw in a service and haggled on what I paid them, well for the first 50 miles the problem seemed to dissapear. but on my drive back home it did it twice, I still cannot believe it is the turbo, unless that variable veigns are sticking, ordered some of the BG244 stuff to see if that helps! topped up with VPD too
 
Top