Menu
What's new
By:
Advanced search...

Honda HDS

S

si_d_2003

Members
Messages
26
Reaction score
0
Location
United Kingdom
Car
Accord 2.2 CTDI
Hey guys we have a few diagnostic machines at work but they only function at the basic levels DTC reset, live data, etc
I want to be able to recalibrate my injectors, but I want to invest in a HDS. Are the clone ones on ebay any good?
Like this one:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/new-honda-acura-diagnostic-tool-HIM-HDS-auto-scanner-free-shipping-fast-deliver-/321168445598?pt=UK_Diagnostic_Tools_Equipment&hash=item4ac721909e

I have read on some forums that it can really f**k up the system and can lock you out, is this true?
 
why not take it to a garage, and know you wont f**k your car up? unless you really need a hds system. (as in use it alot)

from reading your post again you seem to have a garage of some sort in which case i would certainly invest in a decent set up
 
I've got one of those clones and they're ok(ish).

Useful for reading problems, but I wouldn't program anything with them as they are simply too unreliable to ensure a clean write. I also get frequency protocol time outs on accessing the Body Electrical systems.

Handy for Honda specific errors (ala VSA, etc) but beyond that not much use.
 
The price says it all TBO as my mates snap on reader is 3K.
But this can read almost any car so a great bit of kit.
 
Yeah I work in a motor vehicle training college. So we have a bit of kit, but they dont go deep enough I can reprogram new injectors but I cant calibrate them. Jayok, can you recalibrate injectors on it?
 
You can - but I wouldn't, well not with that clone kit anyway. The risk is that you get a timeout of the hardware while mid-programming - it ends up bricking the ECU. :(.
 
you get what you pay for rarely resonates more than when you buy some tech goodies.

car ecu's not to be messed with, especially from garage owners. :p
 
Resurrecting this old thread, as there is a suggestion about calibrating diesel injectors.

I recently discovered mine are misfuelling, but I've no idea how to use a borrowed HDS (kindly loaded to me by freddofrog/Brian) to apply any sort of correction. The injectors were already correctly coded to the ECU.

IMAG0444_zps4340bb8d.jpg
 
^ to add a bit more detail .....the HDS is a "cheap" clone (i.e. has basic stuff like an OBD reader has, but also has quite a few more read-functions, plus engine control functions that an OBD does not have).

Does a proper HDS have some extra functionality ???

[Jon, now that you're using Chrome, you can put up even more pictures than just 1 e.g. the menus too]
 
Some of the photos aren't great, but good enough.

Software version:
IMAG0455_zpsa88f7240.jpg


'System selection menu' (poor quality, but the 'diesel' option is in the centre):
IMAG0451_zps867d2800.jpg


'Mode menu:
IMAG0450_zpsd4a619de.jpg


'Inspection menu':
IMAG0449_zpsf386f582.jpg


And this is the 'fuel rail pressure test' that my car failed on (despite apparently running perfectly OK):
IMAG0454_zps843e2bbf.jpg
 
you forgot to say that these menus are all for the diesel, because the system knows that the car is a diesel from the VIN that is entered.

was there a picture of the "adjustment" menu, that's where there may be an appreciable difference from a proper HDS
 
freddofrog said:
you forgot to say that these menus are all for the diesel, because the system knows that the car is a diesel from the VIN that is entered.

was there a picture of the "adjustment" menu, that's where there may be an appreciable difference from a proper HDS
Click to expand...
I know the VIN contains the 'CN2' vehicle descriptor, but I wasn't sure if the HDS configured itself from that, or instead communicated with the ECU and found out that way?

Apologies Brian, but I have no picture showing the 'adjustment' menu. I almost certainly took one, but it turned out that several of my pictures were blurry and unfocussed.
 
Jon_G said:
I know the VIN contains the 'CN2' vehicle descriptor, but I wasn't sure if the HDS configured itself from that, or instead communicated with the ECU and found out that way?

Apologies Brian, but I have no picture showing the 'adjustment' menu. I almost certainly took one, but it turned out that several of my pictures were blurry and unfocussed.
Click to expand...
A debatable point about the VIN. It is conceivable that the system has a lookup table for the types it supports, and if so, then it would know from either the VIN or the ECU (e.g. it must get the info from the ECU is someone cannot be bothered to enter the VIN, but maybe the ECU simply says "CN2", in which case the HDS can also work it out from the VIN)

Oh dear, if anyone is going to be able to offer advice on this, I suspect that they would need to see the "adjustment" menu, as that is where the adjustments would be initiated from :lol:
 
freddofrog said:
...Oh dear, if anyone is going to be able to offer advice on this, I suspect that they would need to see the "adjustment" menu, as that is where the adjustments would be initiated from :lol:
Click to expand...
I suppose I was hoping that someone who has previous experience of doing the adjustments (such as Jason?) would already be familiar enough with HDS screens, tests and other menus to provide an answer. :p
 
Jon_G said:
I suppose I was hoping that someone who has previous experience of doing the adjustments (such as Jason?) would already be familiar enough with HDS screens, tests and other menus to provide an answer. :p
Click to expand...
Jason ....where are you :lol:
 
Sorry guys, late to the thread.

In terms of the HDS, it determines the model markets from the VIN number, but still communicates with the ECU to determine exact features. For example, you'll notice on the start page that you have things like and pop-up hood which are no use, but they are still there. Pushing the button just gives a features not available.

Now onto the Diesel option. In this sub-menu to have all the diesel specific options - as you've noted. This version of the HDS was the last to work with "hacked" clones, so everything in here relates to the iCDTi engine (not iDTEC). Anyhow, you've noticed that your injectors "appear" off on their timing, according to the ECU, this is pretty much what the ECU is telling the HDS, the HDS has no clever logic here, it is simply reporting what the ECU is telling it. Furthermore on the fuel pressure, test, it is simply reading the line pressure test and comparing it to Honda's defined standards as "acceptable". Now this may not transpire it something you actually "feel" is wrong with the car, but you are behind the target pressure.

On the fuel injector test, this actually doesn't indicate there's a problem. The green indicates a positive adjustment, where as the red indicates a negative adjustment. The screen is just reporting how much adjustment the ECU is actually doing. Obviously, ideally everything would be an adjustment of 0mg, but as you know the manufacturing differences have to be accounted for here.

If you have to re-code the the injectors this is done via the Adjustment menu option. In here, you should find an option to adjust fueling. However, I never committed a change here, as I didn't trust my dodgy clone kit! So, not sure how it actually works.

I hope this helps guys!
 
Also late to the thread but that's right. The red or green just indicate deviation from target and refer to how much the ecu is having to adjust to achieve correct injector duration.

Just because you don't feel it's off doesn't mean it's perfect.

I've compared these tests to those on a snap on machine and the results are totally on par. These clones are actually very good.

I've also coded many injectors with them and dpf regenerations without issue.

You cannot buy a genuine hds unless you are in the honda dealer network. I know of someone who managed to buy one somehow and honda quickly deactivated his unit.

I'm not aware of any manual Injector learning option apart from an injector coding option. I'm happy to be corrected on whether this exists but as an experienced user of this kit I don't believe it exists and it actually isn't within the adaptation limits of the ecu. The bosch edc16 fitted to these cars will accept a 6 digit hexadecimal injector code and as you can see it will manually alter the duration to achieve a correct calibration.

Jon as per PM, repairing a cracked manifold and blanking off your egr will really help with your injector calibration. I did a 170k mile accord today and after blanking his egr all 4 injectors were either bang on target or very nearly on. They were like new..

Hope that helps.
 
what about the "fuel rail pressure test", I think Jon's engine cuts out and the HDS comes up with a fail message ?

also, on the injectors, is it possible that if the ECU is having to adapt, could affect mpg i.e. are there limits within which it can adapt, but some are outside limits ? [same question for a petrol engine, ***uming that this also goes on in a petrol engine]

how does it know how much it needs to adjust the fuelling pulse-width on each cylinder ?
 
It knows the thresholds by the coded injector codes. That's the whole point of injector coding.. It tells the ecu the limits each injector is built to and defines how the ecu should handle the pulses.

The rail pressure test is probably failing if one or more injectors is substantially off target or if there is a lot of electrical interference knocking th duration out.

Every test or adaption I've run over the years has been perfectly executed with this unit Including abs recalibraions, throttle body adaption and relearn, vtec activation testing, idtec Injector calibration just to name a few..

I'm sure jon's mpg is not optimal right now given he knows he has a cracked manifold. I would also bet he has a slightly leaking egr as its just so common on these and that will alter his AFR also.

Petrol's are a different kettle of fish mate. They don't have solenoid injectors like a diesel.
 
Sometimes recoding the existing Injector codes can help as it resets the learnt adaptation values and the ecu learns from scratch.
 
F6HAD said:
Sometimes recoding the existing Injector codes can help as it resets the learnt adaptation values and the ecu learns from scratch.
Click to expand...
We didn't want to try that ......Jon, worth a try then.

As for petrols, yeah I know the injectors are different (they spray into the inlet manifold just by the port), but otherwise surely the pulse-width principle is the same.

My question is, on the diesel, whilst the codes for each injector will tell the ECU how to adjust the map for each injector as a starting point, those red and green bits looked like they were varying individually while the engine was running, so I'm ***uming that the ECU can make some fine adjustments on top of the codes. There was another test that showed the "acceleration" of each individual piston, so I'm ***uming that it attempts to adjust the fuelling using those accelerations as feedback. If so, hen could it be that there is a limit to the amount of adjustment, and when it's gone beyond those limits, the mpg will suffer ? [same applies to a petrol]
 
Yes so the tolerance seems to be +/- 5mg and its directly related to the afr. So a leaking exhaust or unexpected egr gasses in the inlet will alter it in my experience.

I don't think I can answer the mpg question with a specific value but just in general terms of logic I would ***ume a non perfect calibration means the engine isn't running optimally and therefore that will adversely affect economy.

I've not looked in detail at the petrol menu but in a petrol combustion engine you also have the consideration of timing..
 
Thanks for the input guys.

It's worth mentioning that we also ran EGR, IMRC, rail pressure control valve and boost tests using Brian's HDS and my car passed all these with no problems indicated. It was during the 'fuel rail pressure control valve test' that the engine cut out, but I think this is normal and doesn't indicate a fault... we performed the test twice, it passed both times (and it isn't that long ago that I replaced that particular valve), so presumably the final test of that valve was to see if it'll fully shut off the fuel and therefore stops the engine?

I'm not overly-concerned about the fuel rail pressure failing the tests, as the car is running fine even under high rev/heavy load conditions and the MPG is pretty good (around 43 MPG, which is what it's always been for mostly non-motorway use). I suspect the fuel filter is causing this and will replace it once I get a chance, or a DTC.

The results from the injector test are still confusing me... IF no 2 injector is over-fuelling, then why is the result in green? The two (apparently) under-fuelling injectors are in red, which usually suggests something bad (but please don't think I'm ignoring your advice Jason, I just don't understand the point of the test)! And - if these are just indications of the corrections made by the ECU in respect of the injector coding - how can you make use of the results to see if the original injector coding is still valid? I reckon that it should be possible to make use of these results somehow, in order to optimise performance - I just need to find out how, which probably means I need to spend more time using the HDS and experimenting with the capabilities.
 
Red just means it's under fuelling and green means over. Either green or red is not good.

Make sense?
 
F6HAD said:
Red just means it's under fuelling and green means over. Either green or red is not good.

Make sense?
Click to expand...
Yes, it does..

However, having obtained these results (and understood what they mean, I think) what is an owner/HDS operator supposed to do next? Just being a bit interesting shouldn't be the end of the issue, and it has been suggested elsewhere that performance can be improved by making adjustments based upon the test results... it seems a little pointless for the HDS to incorporate a test that doesn't help to either ****yse a problem or improve performance. BUT - if adjustments can be made based upon these results - then why doesn't the HDS offer the operator an option to upload a correction to the vehicle ECU and optimise performance?
 
I don't know why it's not an option but given that I do know that other factors can adversely affect the results perhaps it's better to solve those first and then see what impact that has..
 
F6HAD said:
I don't know why it's not an option but given that I do know that other factors can adversely affect the results perhaps it's better to solve those first and then see what impact that has..
Click to expand...
Fair point. I certainly will be addressing the low fuel rail pressure issue without too much delay, as I'm worried the situation could deteriorate and cause DTCs P1065 or P0087 and hence limp mode. I ***ume that my ECU is compensating for the lower pressure by extending the injector opening durations to maintain the fuel delivery, which may well be causing fuelling inaccuracies. A fuel filter will be ordered ASAP (do you reckon I should buy one from Honda??? :p ).
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top