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how to get revs?

Draga

Draga

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CL9
Hay all a total newb here.
Sorry for the newb question cant find this info any were.
its based on this:
hp = (torq x rpm) /5252

Right from my understanding when reading about cars and the reason to buy a Honda is 3 reasons being able to easily upgrade a lot of torq ie clutch, vtec, high reving bullet proof engine.
so to get high revs i want be able to rev higher to gain more so vtec can scream longer. how would one do this?
my k24a3 think revs to 7k

I am driving a cl9 2.4l exec pet man
 
The only way to get more RPM is to upgrade the rods, crank and pistons... You could probably squeeze a bit morw out of stock.. But it would be risky.


I presume you think more RPM = more power... Well i hate to say this but this would not be entirely true in a road engine.

To get power you need petrol, air and a spark.
The head on the k24 will struggle to get in the necessary air to keep producing power past (my guess is 8k ish). This would be due to the inlet cam opening times on the stock cams.

You could uprate your cams too, but again there is a limit to how much air you can flow through the stock head.

If your after more power i would suggest a remap, with some breathing mods and an exhaust are going to be your best bet... But your not going to get big gains from it.
 
Thanks the hole. I am already speakingto ukcl9 about the remap new header and cat back exhaust ow and intake. I just wanted to boost rpm to about 8000. Thanks for the response
 
Draga said:
Thanks the hole. I am already speakingto ukcl9 about the remap new header and cat back exhaust ow and intake. I just wanted to boost rpm to about 8000. Thanks for the response
Click to expand...
Just like TheHole said, you need to build yout engine, only way to make it. If you get yourself a K20a2 head from a civic type r, have it build, then you can have your 8000rpm monster with 260bhp. Won't be cheap though
 
Thanks the nasty1984. Although it wont be cheap i think building little by little as money lets me would get me this result.

Is there any specific rods, pistons, cranks and cams any one recommeneds
 
No problem Draga.

You have to think about the inertia of moving a piston in a reciprocating fashion.
Dont forget that as the speed rises.. The force on the piston / conrod goes up as a ^2.

Bikes have tiny pistons to allow their high rpm.. Big torquey V8s have a long stroke but low rpm.

A good example of this is the S2000.
Here in the uk the red line is 9000rpm on the 2.0 petrol.

In the states they have the 2.0 petrol and a 2.2 petrol.

The 2.0 petrol is identical stroke and bore to the uk version...
The 2.2 petrol has a wider bored and shorter stroke. But by doing this they had to drop the max rpm to 8000.. Due to the extra mass in the piston.

Hope this helps :)
 
thanks for that info i think rather then wasting money right now i need to get some good reading material and maybe some form of video format training talking to be about building a honda engine. i want to squeeze 300hp NA maybe with ITB or a small supercharger after for a 400hp car, with about 9k rpm like the s2000. i tihnk this is were honda have the edge over other car manufacture on a high reving engine. i dont want to go down the Frankenstein root. i will get a blown k20a engine to examin during training, before purchasing a building one while reading threw material.IF you guys have any honda engine building book or a guide i would be greatful if you could point me there. I am grateful for all the knowledge you guys are providing BUT i need to do my own research without a silver spoon threw my car build. Thanks again guys and hope your not offended by my last comment.
 
Draga.

Speaking from eexperience here... If you want 300+hp from your engine your are going to be looking at spending upwards of £8k rather easily.

Example here again is an S2000.. 240hp as stock.
To get these to 350whp your looking at about £5k for a supercharger setup, 1k for an ecu and then tuning costs on top of that.

Turbo setups , your looking at £10k+. But they are nearing 500hp then.

The S2000 engine is also of a much higher standard than the k24.

I advise you do some serious research as there are many 'build' threads from the civic boys in the USA who push large power.

All i can say is it wont be as cheap or as easy as your thinking.
 
yes defiantly agree with the research if i disappear for a few days at a time, you will find me in my basement with laptop and pot noodles reading. thanks again for all the pointers let the reading begin.

while reading i will still go for my new header exhaust intake remap and clutch :) wouldnt go a miss

have selected the following two books:
Honda K. Series Engine Swaps: Upgrade to More Horsepower and Advanced Technology

Building Honda K-Series Engine Performance (Performance How-to)


if any one has any other material they would suggest i am open ears and yes will be going threw the threads on builds just for now a book with the basics would be great

thanks. OW and i do love reading and studying.
 
I would not spend a penny until i knew what route i was going down... If you buy a exhaust manifold now... Then choose the turbo route, that manifold is then wasted

If you choose supercharged, then the intake mani will be a waste of money... So will the mapping.
 
ok i need to do more reading before i make my choices TheHole. Thanks for the suggestion on the intake and i agree i should not waste money on the intake for now as i am not 100% sure on what i want todo i have ordered my books so will be going threw that to learn the basics so i am not lost in convos when you guys start saying werid and wonderful names for things :$ thanks so much for the dedication on my topic
 
So After many hours of reading and thanks to the guys above i have decided to go no were near the 300hp mark on the k24 mainly due to funding but have decided on the following .

Mid March
UKCL9 - REMAP
lilbo - header Exhaust
fujitsubo-legalis-r-exhaust-system-accord-cl9-24-saloon-dual-****ler - cat back
K&N intake (not short ram)

Future
Clutch EXEDY 08951 STAGE 2 CERAMETALLIC CLUTCH KIT 20A2 K20A3 K20Z3 K24A4 K24A8

looking to purchase the following
rocker arms vtec need 8 of these
Rods - (thinking BC turbo rods) 4 of these
piston heads 4 of them also thinking (skunk2) ?
and cams and 2 of these
 
Why are you changing Rocker arms and rods and pistons (heads??)?
Also with cams changing you'll need a remappable ecu beyond a Generic reflash such as what ukcl9 is offering...
 
TheHole said:
No problem Draga.

You have to think about the inertia of moving a piston in a reciprocating fashion.
Dont forget that as the speed rises.. The force on the piston / conrod goes up as a ^2.

Bikes have tiny pistons to allow their high rpm.. Big torquey V8s have a long stroke but low rpm.

A good example of this is the S2000.
Here in the uk the red line is 9000rpm on the 2.0 petrol.

In the states they have the 2.0 petrol and a 2.2 petrol.

The 2.0 petrol is identical stroke and bore to the uk version...
The 2.2 petrol has a wider bored and shorter stroke. But by doing this they had to drop the max rpm to 8000.. Due to the extra mass in the piston.

Hope this helps :)
Click to expand...
The 2.2 S2000 has the same bore as the 2.0 but a longer stroke.

Basically engines like the K20A2 are of a square design so they can rev quite high and produce decent torque, they are 86mm bore and 86mm stroke. An undersquare design can produce quite a bit of torque but due to the longer stroke they can't rev as high due to the piston having to travel a greater distance.
An engine with an oversquare design like an engine in an R1, Fireblade or F1 car have a very wide bore and a very short stroke meaning that although they don't produce masses of torque they can rev a lot higher because the shorter piston doesn't have to cover such a large distance each time.

Hope this helps.
 
Good point superman. Indeed the usdm does have a different crank!.

Im so used to the chaps on the S2k forum re sleeving the blocks after a misshap ( dropped valve normally) and going for an oversides piston on the same crank.. Effectively giving them a 2.2l engine but with the stock ukdm crank.
 
Jake123 said:
Why are you changing Rocker arms and rods and pistons (heads??)?
Also with cams changing you'll need a remappable ecu beyond a Generic reflash such as what ukcl9 is offering...
Click to expand...
reading on k20 forum i had reading upgrading these parts would give more power. After getting all these bits my car would need retunning. Which would also be done
 
Superman001 said:
The 2.2 S2000 has the same bore as the 2.0 but a longer stroke.

Basically engines like the K20A2 are of a square design so they can rev quite high and produce decent torque, they are 86mm bore and 86mm stroke. An undersquare design can produce quite a bit of torque but due to the longer stroke they can't rev as high due to the piston having to travel a greater distance.
An engine with an oversquare design like an engine in an R1, Fireblade or F1 car have a very wide bore and a very short stroke meaning that although they don't produce masses of torque they can rev a lot higher because the shorter piston doesn't have to cover such a large distance each time.

Hope this helps.
Click to expand...
i will need to get a second car to build into a track car it seems. I will mod this 2.4exec with intak, cat back exhaust and ukcl9 remap. The other one will need to be looked into a engine build and whole car done from scratch...
 
Draga said:
So After many hours of reading and thanks to the guys above i have decided to go no were near the 300hp mark on the k24 mainly due to funding but have decided on the following .

Mid March
UKCL9 - REMAP
lilbo - header Exhaust
fujitsubo-legalis-r-exhaust-system-accord-cl9-24-saloon-dual-****ler - cat back
K&N intake (not short ram)

Future
Clutch EXEDY 08951 STAGE 2 CERAMETALLIC CLUTCH KIT 20A2 K20A3 K20Z3 K24A4 K24A8

looking to purchase the following
rocker arms vtec need 8 of these
Rods - (thinking BC turbo rods) 4 of these
piston heads 4 of them also thinking (skunk2) ?
and cams and 2 of these
Click to expand...
What has given you the idea to change the rocker arms, Rods, pistons and cams?

I would only change the stock rods and pistons if going FI.
Cams can safely be done using std engine internals.


What is your aim for these mods?
Please dont think im being harsh im just hoping that your not just going to throw money at an engine without real reason.

Im not sure how much power a stock k24 can take.. Bit im sure it could handle 350hp without the need to uprate anything.
 
TheHole said:
What has given you the idea to change the rocker arms, Rods, pistons and cams?

I would only change the stock rods and pistons if going FI.
Cams can safely be done using std engine internals.


What is your aim for these mods?
Please dont think im being harsh im just hoping that your not just going to throw money at an engine without real reason.

Im not sure how much power a stock k24 can take.. Bit im sure it could handle 350hp without the need to uprate anything.
Click to expand...
i am trying to get higher RPM so vtec goes longer... but on the same time i am thinking saving and buying a second car would be better to work on....

I dont think you are being harsh at all go ahead and ask away.
 
You would be better off lowering vtec engagement if you want vtec for longer.

If you do want higher revs then it gets very expensive..
You will also need alot of head work to be done... Springs, retainers, seats, guides.. Also porting to allow more flow.
That goes alot with ballanced cams, ballanced crank, rods and pistons... Basically new guts
 
TheHole said:
You would be better off lowering vtec engagement if you want vtec for longer.

If you do want higher revs then it gets very expensive..
You will also need alot of head work to be done... Springs, retainers, seats, guides.. Also porting to allow more flow.
That goes alot with ballanced cams, ballanced crank, rods and pistons... Basically new guts
Click to expand...
thanks for this,I dont expect you to sliver spoon feed me here but were do i read up on this modification and how things work and that, i think it may be best to not spend a penny on anything till i do more reading. i got some books i have selected from amazon that i have posted earlier but i need some sort of reading or video tutorial on building performance engines and systems.
 
Thanks for this will look at parts and see how they all go together. Cost is also a problem looks like i will ordering peace by peace till i have everything. Thanks ran oit of "like this" will give them tomorrow. If you know any good reading material on how parts fit and work and what they do wouls be great thanks
 
I'm new to the forum but have owned and modified a few Hondas over the years. I can't help but think that maybe the OP is better off getting rid of the exec and looking for a decent euro r? It's the same accord but with the "high revs" and longer vtec out of the box. Seems to make sense considering the silly costs of modding a standard accord to high bhp.
Also, 350hp and front wheel drive? Some serious cash will need to be spent on actually being able to put that power down unless he's looking for a hooligan machine :)
 
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