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Intake manifold and EGR cleaning on i-CTDi

gathor

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Got myself together today and decided to have a go at inlet manifold and EGR. EGR part is not completed as of now, no time today. But I spent like 3-4hrs cleaning the inlet manifold. And I tell ya, it looked horrible. I started with getting off the engine cover (obviously). Then removed the air filter box to make some more room, it is hold by two bolts. I also replaced the air filter as I had one purchased some time ago. Once Air box was removed I could easily undo two nuts and one bolt that hold the parts B(inlet manifold), C (butterfly valve housing) and D(pressure sensor housing) together. See pic.

1-Copy.jpg


These are quite easy to separate. I also removed the pipe that is connected to inlet manifold, two nuts on each end. It is marked as the A on first photo. It wasnt to bad.

2-Copy.jpg


It took some time to properly clean all parts. I didnt use anything on actual manifold, just cleaned it with a cloth. To clean part C and D I used stuff from halfords, gunk I think it is called.

Some pics - before and after:
Part B - inlet manifold
Before:
3-Copy.jpg

After:
3-clean-Copy.jpg


Part C - Butterfly valve - it is mirracle it worked, take a look
Before:
4a.jpg

After:
4-clean-Copy.jpg


Pard D - Pressure sensor. It was absolutely covered in black oily stuff, how it managed to work I dont know. Spent half an hour to clean it properly.
Before:
5-Copy.jpg

After:
5-clean-Copy.jpg



To do all this you need standard set of sockets and a ratchet, I think 12mm and 10mm, plus screwdriver and few bits. Used a few cloths, the amount of black stuff was incredible, sticky thing was pretty hard to remove. As you can see from pics it looked terrible. I also lost one nut and a small bolt...went down to bottom engine cover I can hear it rattling but cant find the blooming things. Part E on first pic is a butterfly valve mechanism, you dont need to do anything to it. Dont forget to plug everything in, plenty of wires and hoses. Oh And I also cleaned hoses, bit of a oily stuff in there. Once everything was in place I started my car and...it worked to my very big relief. Got to drive it for a few miles now see if its ok.
Will try to do second part tomorrow (wife/weather permitting), that will be the EGR valve. I would highly recommend doing this to all diesels owners specially ones that own a car that have 100k on clock like mine. Once I clean the EGR I am going to use the BG244 stuff, should come tomorrow.
Hope it will help someone, dan
 
Great work!
I've done exactly this a few months ago.
About the EGR, I was surprised how clean it was. Well, it had black sooth of course, but no oily stuff.
 
Sound like you had fun and a great post, what and where do you get the BG244 stuff from, is yours a facelift iCDTi ? is the EGR solenoid or vacume operated?

Nigel
 
Nice work mate. One question what gasketsdid you use to put the parts back together, the old ones or a new gaskets. Thats if there is gaskets there which i'm ***uming there will be.

Really good job mate.

Also gave you a rep point or 'Vote this post up' as I think its a good writeup
 
great write up mate I did all this about a month ago too my cars got 126k on it so did everything you did and yes it was all clogged up with carbon and soot. Did the egr valve clean today and the car is running great. Will send you a rep point your way.
 
Excellent work fella, just a piece of advice you should not have really taken the butterfly off , they never seal properly once removed ideally you should have left it on and tried cleaning around it

if you haven't installed the valve back make sure when lifting toward a light source there is no light coming through.
Cheers CJ :blush: I tried to clean around it but it was really hard to do so I decided to remove it from housing. Then I installed the valve back and then pressed it to close position with screws still loose. Once it fitted perfectly I tightened the two screw that hold it in place. This way I know it closes well.

Great work!
I've done exactly this a few months ago.
About the EGR, I was surprised how clean it was. Well, it had black sooth of course, but no oily stuff.
I wonder where from this oily stuff comes? From what I saw it was only present near the butterfly thingy.

Sound like you had fun and a great post, what and where do you get the BG244 stuff from, is yours a facelift iCDTi ? is the EGR solenoid or vacume operated?

Nigel
I wouldnt call it fun but it was very educating. I ordered BG244 from powerenhancer website along with MAF cleaner. I also took a look on MAF, it is a bit "dusty" so I will put the cleaner to good use. Mine is a pre-facelift accord and I believe the EGR is of a selenoid type.

Nice work mate. One question what gasketsdid you use to put the parts back together, the old ones or a new gaskets. Thats if there is gaskets there which i'm ***uming there will be.

Really good job mate.

Also gave you a rep point or 'Vote this post up' as I think its a good writeup
Thanks mate, I used old gaskets. I cleaned them properly before putting back on.

great write up mate I did all this about a month ago too my cars got 126k on it so did everything you did and yes it was all clogged up with carbon and soot. Did the egr valve clean today and the car is running great. Will send you a rep point your way.
Thanks buddy! Yours a facelift isnt?

Nice write up Dan cheers certainly something I'll be haveing ago at cheers
It is worth it mate. I just couldnt believemy own eyes. I am also sure no fuel addictive would be able to remove that sort of oily sooth deposit. As a preventative matter and to remove the dry stuff I will use BG244 every 6k or so and VPD or similar only. Im going on holiday to poland soon, so I will check for any deposits after I drive these 1000 miles.


Thank You all for kind words, dan
 
Dan, absolutely fantastic effort and great pics there.

Do post back your results, I'm confident your car will feel better for this.
 
Dan simply superb write up mate
 
Have you noticed a difference in the car since cleaning all that crap out?
 
Not as of yet.
Anyway here comes the EGR. Remove the air box first. EGR is very easy to remove, there are two nuts you have to undo and one bolt. All 12mm. Next thing is to remove the two bolts that hold the pipe that goes into EGR. Once again you will need 12mm socket to do that. Here a pic of EGR before dismantling:

1.jpg


Manifold once EGR is removed:

3.jpg


and EGR

2.jpg


Small pipe part (removed later, attached to EGR by 4 bolts)

6.jpg


Egr from the bottom,

4.jpg


Now, as you can see there is nothing bad going on here. Just a bit of sooth, none of the sticky oily stuff. Very easy to remove, used a cloth, it came off quickly. I didnt took any of the "after" pics as these would look almost the same as the "before" ones. It is a very quick job, 30-45mins let say. I put it back together, started the car, it worked:)
While doing the EGR I also used the MAF cleaner on my air sensor. You can see the two wires, one with a resistor here:

5.jpg


I sprayed generously inside, cleaned the whole housing as well. Didnt remove the actual sensor, left it as it was.
The question I have is, why it happens that there is that oily stuff near the butterfly valve? I doesnt get burned off, the temperature is too low?
dan
 
Great progress there Dan.. I can't explain the oily stuff either. Could be remnants left over from poor quality fuel, possibly some silicon contamination of some sort?

I'm really interested in whether you feel any difference after this..
 
The question I have is, why it happens that there is that oily stuff near the butterfly valve? I doesnt get burned off, the temperature is too low?
dan

I hope not to say something stupid, but it seems that the oil comes from the intercooler air piping. Maybe oily gas coming from the turbo?
 
...also used the MAF cleaner on my air sensor. You can see the two wires, one with a resistor here:

What you see there is part of the circuit that feeds the hotwire, its just a diode, the hotwire is inside the housing, once you remove the MAF you can see the way it's put together, the sensor wire (or wires as it's hidden not sure exaclty of its composition), is hidden from view, but if you look carefully inside you get an idea where it is. The hotwire itself is incredibly delicate, very fine, just as well its hidden and protected.
 
Thanks guys.
Faddy - cant explain it really, but you may be right. Low quality fuel for an extended period of time might have caused the oily stuff to deposit on intake elements. It was an ex-lease car so I wouldnt be suprised.
Nuno - intercooler piping looked ok, most of the oily stuff was inside the butterfly valve.
Ed - thatnks for explanation mate :(
Dave I did the same, its my third tank of VPD and now I added BG244. I do lots of short trips, 10 miles mostly. The BG244 stuff should do the magic now. Only time will show.
dan
 
Dan so have you noticed any significant change already, i.e does it idle more quiter or anything?
 
David, what exactly is the problem you're experiencing now?

Fuel Filter is always a good idea to start with.. failing that might be time for some proper Honda diagnostics. If you temporarily want to return it to stock to see if it stops the problem, then bring it over..
 
I just drove it to work and back, thats 20miles only. Will drive it tomorrow and see if anything changed. I would really want to take out the intake manifold itself. It would be a big job but I recon I will do it at some point B)
And yes, what is the problem dave?
 
So whats your initial reaction to all the work you've done?
 
Well, TBH guys I havent noticed anything yet B) The engine works as it used to work, car pulls about the same. I think I need to burn another tank of fuel, then I will tell. I am really hoping fuel economy will rise atleast a bit. At least I know the engine is much cleaner now:)
 
Your problem sounds almost identical to Nick's (NESH) - his was also doing it pre remap and more amplified post remap. Good to see the BG is doing it's job! Must be clearing out the system. I've got a few long runs this week so will see if I can feel a difference..
 
I just cleaned out the swirl valve (?) and EGR this weekend on my facelift Tourer (100k miles). It was nothing like as bad as yours Gathor. I did this a few years back on my pre-facelift tourer and it was about as bad as the one in your pics. One thing I did notice from the depths of my memory and your pics is that they have re-designed the EGR and swirl valve on the facelift. The EGR now supplys the recirculated gases after the swirl valve keeping it cleaner.

Here's the swirl valve...

IMAG0046.jpg


IMAG0047.jpg


This is the EGR...

IMAG0040.jpg


The worst of it is the intake to the manifold but I didn't want to take this bit off as it looked like I would have had to remove all the fuel injection gubbins...

IMAG0035.jpg




Just a quick note regarding Pepsters comment about removing the butterfly valve vane. This is my unit as fitted. I didn't remove or adjust the vane at all...

IMAG0048.jpg



Here's a final photo showing the location of the EGR and swirl valve unit on the Facelift diesel. You can see the space shuttle shaped flange on the right where the swirl valve bolts on and the EGR location on the left just before the air intake manifold between the stainless corrugated pipe and the casting...

IMAG0033.jpg
 
Jamie - excellent mate.

And what is the result of all this, any difference?
 
Well I was supposed to be doing a full 100k service but I got distracted and thought I'd have a go at cleaning the EGR following a comment made by one of the lads at HH when I was picking up the service kit. I mentioned about the engine speed dropping slightly when braking, I've posted about this before. He said the first thing to do would be clean the EGR and see how it goes. I don't think there was anything to clean to make a difference. I still have the same "problem" if it is a problem. The biggest difference came from the oil change and filter changes which have made the car like new again.

Maybe I didn't make it clear but the pics in my previous post are as they came out of the car. I didn't do any cleaning on them.
 
Nice one Jamie. Your butterfly valve looked a lot more cleaner than mine. I can also see the boost pressure sensor in there, did you clean that one as well? I had to remove it from housing to do it properly.
Now bit of a update lads. I removed the boost sensor (I think it indicates the condition of internal parts as it is directly in the butterfly housing) yesterday and I got to say it was covered in black goo again...Therefore, without taking apart the manifold again, I can say its black and oily inside. I will have a go at intake manifold soon again, but I dont expect to see it sparkling clean. Which basically leads me to believe that my my fuel system delivers to much fuel and the mixture is to reach. That would explain the low MPG.
Now, I know it may be much to ask but could someone (hmmm...FAHAD..hmm) with pre-facelift car running without problems and excellent fuel economy dismantle manifold parts as I did and check for the oily stuff? What I really need is is to compare the two diesel engines. Maybe that would shed some light on my problems.

I decided I will visit our HH soon for a full diagnostic. Wonder if they are able to test and pinpoint the part/s that causing my silly MPG. I have my car plugged to laptop again but no errors or warnings. I recon that main parts would need to be tested separately, which is real pain. Anyone can advice me on this?
Dan
 
Dan, I've never taken my EGR off yet - in fact I haven't touched anything except regular servicing.

Do you get issues with either standard or re-map settings? Your issues sound very similar to what Nick has been experiencing.. whatever the root cause, the remap seems to exacerbate it further..
 
I would imagine the build up would be bad on cars doing short trips all the time as it never gets burnt off and blown through and out the exhaust? Hence why its good to rag a diesel once in a while to clean it out. If I can find the time I will give a go at cleaning mine out as well. Good guide. Cheers. :D
 
Nice one Jamie. Your butterfly valve looked a lot more cleaner than mine. I can also see the boost pressure sensor in there, did you clean that one as well? I had to remove it from housing to do it properly.
Now bit of a update lads. I removed the boost sensor (I think it indicates the condition of internal parts as it is directly in the butterfly housing) yesterday and I got to say it was covered in black goo again...Therefore, without taking apart the manifold again, I can say its black and oily inside. I will have a go at intake manifold soon again, but I dont expect to see it sparkling clean. Which basically leads me to believe that my my fuel system delivers to much fuel and the mixture is to reach. That would explain the low MPG.
Now, I know it may be much to ask but could someone (hmmm...FAHAD..hmm) with pre-facelift car running without problems and excellent fuel economy dismantle manifold parts as I did and check for the oily stuff? What I really need is is to compare the two diesel engines. Maybe that would shed some light on my problems.

I decided I will visit our HH soon for a full diagnostic. Wonder if they are able to test and pinpoint the part/s that causing my silly MPG. I have my car plugged to laptop again but no errors or warnings. I recon that main parts would need to be tested separately, which is real pain. Anyone can advice me on this?
Dan


Any other issues Dan ?


Really could be the MAF sensor.

I replaced mine recently, shortly after cleaning the EGR, I suspected either the MAF or MAP sensor to be part of a little niggle which again I suspect is caused by one of the temperature sensors incorporated within each sensor.

Upon replacing the MAF sensor I notice a significant increase in fuel economy albeit on the trip computer, also no smoke, it is early days however to report any significant findings.

I noticed a difference when I have previously cleaned the MAF & MAP sensors, but it tended to be short lived, have you cleaned the MAF or just the MAP sensor ?
 
Carl did you use a genuine MAF? Where did you get it from?
 
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