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Original Diesel filter really worth buying ?

Accord127

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I want to know if original Honda diesel filter is really worth buying from Honda ?
I bought same Bosch reference number filter from internet and i got a black colour made in Tunisia filter for 21€ , i heard car goes in limp mode if others than OEM are used .
Oem is very expensive 50€
 

Acercate

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Hello,

I use an aftermarket Bosch diesel filter for more than 1 year now. I've never had any problem but it's probably due to the fact that I only use Total Exellium.

My local Honda dealer told me that the most important is to use high quality fuel and oil.

My accord is a 2008 2.2 Icdti (215000KM or 133000 miles).
 

Accord127

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I recently bought the car , its driven 129000 km (80,000 miles ), it has Meyle or Mahle diesel filter installed, car is just running good. So i would be putting premium fuel in it !
 

accord_n22

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The fuel filter topic of the N22 ictdi engine has been covered immensely over the years.

Genuine for the fuel filter is always 100% recommended, it does seem that the N22 engine has very tight tolerance within its software and can cause MIL lights and poor running of the engine if a genuine diesel fuel filter is not used.
I've owned the diesel Accord for nearly 8 years and would always recommend using a genuine fuel filter.
Granted it is expensive, but its a change you rarely have to do unless you do mega miles like me.

Filters for others things on this diesel (air and oil) are ok with using 3rd party.

Obviously up to you, if you can do the job yourself easily then you can easily try a 3rd party make and change it easily if no good.
If your paying someone to do the job, get genuine.
 

Accord127

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The fuel filter topic of the N22 ictdi engine has been covered immensely over the years.

Genuine for the fuel filter is always 100% recommended, it does seem that the N22 engine has very tight tolerance within its software and can cause MIL lights and poor running of the engine if a genuine diesel fuel filter is not used.
I've owned the diesel Accord for nearly 8 years and would always recommend using a genuine fuel filter.
Granted it is expensive, but its a change you rarely have to do unless you do mega miles like me.

Filters for others things on this diesel (air and oil) are ok with using 3rd party.

Obviously up to you, if you can do the job yourself easily then you can easily try a 3rd party make and change it easily if no good.
If your paying someone to do the job, get genuine.
It seems that i have to go for honda OEM filter, one more thing i want to benefit from your experience is , whicj grade of engine oil to be used ? Honda recommends 0w-30 , shops recommend 5w-30 ? Forums have mixed type of opinion. Which oil is best for it ?
 

antdad

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Covered many times as you know, best is 0w 30 but you can get away with 5w 30. If you think you're going to have the car long enough for a couple or three changes then you can get 20 litres for around £60 - £80.

I've had a couple of changes of this and it seems fine but you don't seem to be UK based?


 

Acercate

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It seems that i have to go for honda OEM filter, one more thing i want to benefit from your experience is , whicj grade of engine oil to be used ? Honda recommends 0w-30 , shops recommend 5w-30 ? Forums have mixed type of opinion. Which oil is best for it ?
My local dealer (Belgium) recommend Castrol 5W30.
 

Accord127

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Covered many times as you know, best is 0w 30 but you can get away with 5w 30. If you think you're going to have the car long enough for a couple or three changes then you can get 20 litres for around £60 - £80.

I've had a couple of changes of this and it seems fine but you don't seem to be UK based?


[/QU
Covered many times as you know, best is 0w 30 but you can get away with 5w 30. If you think you're going to have the car long enough for a couple or three changes then you can get 20 litres for around £60 - £80.

I've had a couple of changes of this and it seems fine but you don't seem to be UK based?


I am from France , we dont have many Hondas here.
 

accord_n22

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The correct grade for the N22 is 0w 30.

There have been issues in the past for timing chains getting damaged (breaking) due to the oil grade being incorrect.

From reading hundreds of threads over the years, I recall that the dealers use the 5w 30 oil as it is cheaper for them to buy.
I remember somewhere that Honda initially stated 5w30 when the accord diesel was first released back in 2003 but changed it to 0w/30 due to the issues with the timing chains back then.
Not sure it filtered down to the dealers.

Been using 0w30 since purchase and now on 235,000 miles and still running sweet as a nut, albeit a very tired clutch now. haha
(purchased on 91,000 miles)

Definitely 0w/30. Plus as we dont have DPFs we can use the standard 0w/30 grade and you dont need the c2 or c3 variant.
I use the C2 Castrol magnetic as its always on offer every year at our local Halford's store (our motor factors equivalent store here in the uk)

Ooh, and run vpower higher octane diesel if you can afford it. The N22 loves the stuff and it keeps the injectors clean.
Our N22 engines are very sotty engines, plus they are direct injected. This means the injectors can foul up pretty easily over time using crappy fuel.
 

Grayedout

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If it's a 2005 then it won't have a DPF and doesn't need the C3 oil highlighted above. A good 0W30 A5/B5 will be fine. I change mine every 6,000 miles as I think the standard interval is too long for the level of soot that the engine generates and may contribute to the timing chain wear but your choice.
 

Accord127

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If it's a 2005 then it won't have a DPF and doesn't need the C3 oil highlighted above. A good 0W30 A5/B5 will be fine. I change mine every 6,000 miles as I think the standard interval is too long for the level of soot that the engine generates and may contribute to the timing chain wear but your choice.
Manufacturing date 14 dec 2005
 

Richard B

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My local Honda dealer told me that the most important is to use high quality fuel..
I still need someone to convince me that so called premium diesel isn't just ordinary truck diesel with a tiny bit of whatever cleaning additive that you do not really need, thrown in.
 

nokia

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^Premium diesel has more additives and is better for your engine health. I have been using Costco Premium fuel for about 4 years. In a range of different cars. No issues.
 

Grayedout

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All diesel fuel contain additives to combat a large amount of issues, some of which is keeping the fuelling system clean.

High quality diesel will contain either a higher concentration of additives or higher quality additives and will provide better protection for your engine and a cleaner engine will run smoother and provide better fuel consumption.

Can this be seen with normal on the road driving? Yes but only by the statistical power of n and doing many runs on standard and high quality diesel. I've done this on mine and seen a 3 mpg improvement with high quality diesel.

There are industry standard tests that are used to test the performance of diesel fuel and companies will specify the level of performance they require in these tests but this data is not made public as the people will not know the tests and the results will not mean anything.
 

Richard B

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We live in a world where it's impossible to tell where engineering stops and marketing spin takes over. Premium diesel costs about 12 to 15% over standard here. I don't know what the differences are like in the UK or EU. So I wonder about this a bit, and most of the info online seems to be poor journalism reaching into the slow news day basket.

But if aditives make a difference I might try add one of the "better" (who the heck knows..) additives for a few months, which is still way cheaper than running premium diesel, and see if I notice any differences.
 

Richard B

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^Premium diesel has more additives and is better for your engine health. I have been using Costco Premium fuel for about 4 years. In a range of different cars. No issues.
That is almost exactly what the signs tells me when I pull up at a fuel station :oops:

I have been running bog standard diesel for 3 or so years without any issues either. The largest users of automotive diesel don't seem to be queuing up at the Premium pump though, so that would indicate that financially the formula doesn't pan out.
 

nokia

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Costco premium diesel is actually cheaper than standard diesel. So it does work out cheaper for premium fuel.
 

Richard B

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question was of diesel filter not the diesel itself
There are several old threads that cover this topic in a lot of detail. Don't feel shy to ask for clarification in old threads.

It is in the conversational nature nature of internet forums that thread topics sometimes spin off other questions. Moderators can split threads into new topics if they think that is the right thing to do.

TA is one of the best behaved and helpful forums I have been part of. I have been online since 1994 (I didn't do BBS), and I wish the rest of the internet augmented my abilities to do stuff the way this place does.
 

Richard B

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Costco premium diesel is actually cheaper than standard diesel. So it does work out cheaper for premium fuel.
So in the UK do you get large trucks queuing up at Costco? Costco fuel is popular here, and their prices are good compared to brandname fuel stations. But an independent supplier is on one of the routes I travel and using a peer-informed fuel savings app they turn out the be the cheapest in town (and Sydney is pretty large) nearly every time. The place looks like nothing and there are nearly always queues.

The fuel source situation is also weird here. There used to be 2 refineries producing fuel for 15 or so brands, but now local production is almost shut down and it's all shipped in from Singapore. Most of the fuel sold under whatever brand is actually single source. There might be some local bending of additives to make particular brandname products. The overall price is also a more a product of competitive local discount cycles than the base price of crude. There are websites that track the cycles that advise when to buy for a few days and when to fill up. Prices rise and fall as much as 20% in these cycles. About 50% of the price of fuel is actually tax (hard set excise per litre plus VAT/GST).
 

Grayedout

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So in the UK do you get large trucks queuing up at Costco? Costco fuel is popular here, and their prices are good compared to brandname fuel stations. But an independent supplier is on one of the routes I travel and using a peer-informed fuel savings app they turn out the be the cheapest in town (and Sydney is pretty large) nearly every time. The place looks like nothing and there are nearly always queues.

The fuel source situation is also weird here. There used to be 2 refineries producing fuel for 15 or so brands, but now local production is almost shut down and it's all shipped in from Singapore. Most of the fuel sold under whatever brand is actually single source. There might be some local bending of additives to make particular brandname products. The overall price is also a more a product of competitive local discount cycles than the base price of crude. There are websites that track the cycles that advise when to buy for a few days and when to fill up. Prices rise and fall as much as 20% in these cycles. About 50% of the price of fuel is actually tax (hard set excise per litre plus VAT/GST).
Base fuel will all be the same for an area (there are 5 refineries that supply the whole UK) but each brand will have their own additive pack added to the fuel, usually at the point of dispensing into the tanker, and it's this additive pack that provides the differences and the benefits.

"I have been running bog standard diesel for 3 or so years without any issues either. " - this is the problem with trying to convince people to purchase higher quality fuels as the differences are not perceptible in normal driving but they are there. As I mentioned higher up I did an experiment of many tanks of standard verses premium diesel and I saw a 3mpg benefit but you have to be committed to doing it over an extended length of time.

At around 150,000 miles I suffered limp home problems with my Tourer and it was due to dirty / poor performing injectors which cost me a £900 overhaul. I know that if the car had been run on Premium diesel for all it's life prior to me owning it then those problems would not have occurred.
 

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^what about diluting the diesel with your own additives like a white spirit and butoxyethanol blend? a little something to boost the cetane rating of your diesel?
In winter, people here tend to use a product called west frost(norway special I'm afraid) but it's simply isopropyl alcohol to ***ist in keeping the water content from freezing over and crystallizing, which doesn't make sense to me since diesel and water don't mix, winter diesel is different from summer diesel, and most filters have a water trap anyway.
my peers always told me to never run my tank below quarter full and that seems like more solid advice than pouring rubbing alcohol into it
 

Grayedout

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Trust me the additive packs in diesel are very complex and companies spend millions formulating and testing them so no I don't think you can create your own and boosting the cetane level is only a very small portion of the benefits they give. The additive levels are measured in parts per million and so are very sensitive to anything else being added to the mix!
 

accord_n22

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At around 150,000 miles I suffered limp home problems with my Tourer and it was due to dirty / poor performing injectors which cost me a £900 overhaul. I know that if the car had been run on Premium diesel for all it's life prior to me owning it then those problems would not have occurred.
This is very interesting.

Always been tempted to run normal standard boggo diesel as the price differences is tempting especially covering 2000 miles a month (pre covid days), but i have always chosen to use vpower diesel apart from a handful of times when vpower wasn't available and the car has ran perfectly ever since I purchased it. I do believe long term it really does help and make a difference.

Most people rarely keep their cars for very long these days, so those people wont benefit much from this.
 

Richard B

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winter diesel is different from summer diesel, and most filters have a water trap anyway.
My understanding is that Winter Diesel has a lower cloud point. Below cloud point the paraffins in diesel go waxy and gel the fuel. Warming it up (common in many biodiesel setups because biodiesel has a much higher cloud point) is a good way of preventing this, but seeing fuel lines run the length of the car it is difficult to heat an entire fuel system. Especially at startup, when there are no hot engine systems to tap heat from. So selling low cloud point diesel in winter is the solution.
 

Grayedout

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This is very interesting.

Always been tempted to run normal standard boggo diesel as the price differences is tempting especially covering 2000 miles a month (pre covid days), but i have always chosen to use vpower diesel apart from a handful of times when vpower wasn't available and the car has ran perfectly ever since I purchased it. I do believe long term it really does help and make a difference.

Most people rarely keep their cars for very long these days, so those people wont benefit much from this.
I did the maths a few years ago based on the price difference between standard and premium and the 3mpg benefit I was seeing and numbers were pretty close but I think the price gap has increased now!
 

Richard B

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I have another question about fuel. There seem to be 2 schools of thought about water in diesel. One is to have an additive in the fuel that suspends water throughout the fuel so it gets transported out in the combustion process. A simple detergent type additive should do this as it links to both water and hydrocarbons.

But then there are opinions that say water suspended in fuel causes oxidation of components in the fuel system and to exploit the hydrophobic nature of hydrocarbons to separate water from fuel, and drain it off in a filtration / accumulation process. Most diesel vehicles seem to have a fuel filter that does this, so would a suspension type additive not interfere with that?

Thoughts?
 
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