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Timing chain replacement

bwdrew

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HI everyone,

I dropped my car off yesterday morning for its 162500 service at my local Honda dealer, and got a call within an hour with some bad news — apparently I need a new timing chain as it's rattling. Fair enough, I'm thinking, it's quite high mileage. The only issue is that they want £3250 to do it (including £1688 for new injectors, which i believe is apparently recommended). The car isn't worth that much (it's a 2006 iCDTi EX Tourer).

I see that others have had this done for £800 (e.g. yamjam1972) — how? The local garage's I've used in the past don't want to touch it. Do you suggest I source parts via other sources - eBay lists timing chain kits, including this one from Holdcroft (***ociated with HH?).

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Genuine-Honda-Accord-CTDI-Timing-Chain-Kit-Including-Oil-Pump-Chain-/250981171287?fits=Model%3AAccord&hash=item3a6fa4c057#ht_720wt_952

I've left a message with Holdcroft Honda and waiting to hear back. They're 150 miles away but have had success in the past with them doing my DMF for much less than local dealers.

What do people think? I love the car, but this is giving me a headache that I don't need!

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks!
 

Goodluckmonkey

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bwdrew

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Thanks Goodluckmonkey. Thanks also to Jon_G to sending me the link to his excellent write up on doing the job himself (http://typeaccord.co.uk/forum/topic/16473-replacement-of-engine-chains/). I'm not confident enough of my mechanical skills to attempt this though.

So, Holdcroft Honda got back to me, quoting £1100 all in, not including injectors. The chap I spoke seemed reassuring that new injectors would not be necessary, although I do run the risk of them being seized in the head, requiring replacement.

My main dilemma is whether to go with this, and hoping there are no further significant costs over the next few years, or to part-exchange it as it is on something newer with fewer miles.

Mine currently has 163k on it, but I'm not sure whether getting it done for this price is worth it if I'm faced with a similar bill in the not too distant future. I had the dual mass flywheel (with a replacement clutch) dealt with at 95k, and had the exhaust manifold replaced under warranty at about 120k, both of which I believe used updated parts, so shouldn't repeat their premature failures, although I guess I might need another clutch by 200k, possibly. Anything else I might have missed? To get something as economical, comfortable and practical, albeit newer with fewer miles is going to be whatever I can get for this (£2k?) plus another £6k or so. Is this car going to cost me £6k over the next 5 years? It's a tough one... Since Jan 2011, when I bought the car with 81k on it, I've spent £4700 on predominantly main dealer servicing (excluding the £1120 for the DMF), which have mostly been regular services and consumables (tyres, brakes etc) and of course something for £8k will have similar consumable costs. It's passed every MoT with only every very minor advisories, although I do need to get the rear ARB links seen to...

So, what would you do?
 

chew

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My chains been rattling for ages I'm not prepared to spend more than the car is worth so I took the decision to drive it till it dies. If I had a garage and more tools I would consider trying it myself. But it's not a job to be done on my driveway. Also knowing my luck I would spend all the money on the chain then the clutch would need changing. Good luck with it.
 

wookie

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£1100 from a dealer is a good price, I can't remember the labour time to do it, but it will take at least 5 hours to do. And the work will be guaranteed as well. If yours is a facelift then it will have the modified injectors which don't need replacing unless they are faulty. If the injectors are seized then they will get trashed removing them. The only other expensive item which is known to fail is the abs modulator.
 

luvmyaccord

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£1100 is a good price and as has been said I wouldn't worry about the injectors. Especially seeing as HH have said the same thing lol.

I would like to add that I doubt you'll get £2000 trade in :( from your post it seems as though you've replaced all the major things that could go wrong. I would reckon that the only thing it might need in the future to get to 200k miles is another clutch, but even that is a maybe depending on how he car is driven.

Good luck dude :)
 

JapCar

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Honda (Bristol) quoted me £712 (VAT incl) for whole kit and £319 labor.
I changed just both chains in local garage (one mechanic for 1.5 days). Labor £250, chains about £110 bought from abroad.
My Accord is facelift, 2007, 80K miles. I thought timing chain tensioner should be new type, but it was old ratchet type.
Anyway, now the rattling gone...
 

bwdrew

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Well, I got it done at Holdcroft Honda, who did a sterling job. While I was there, they did the 162.5k service and replaced some rear ARB links and bushes, that needed doing too. Very thorough, pleasant to deal with and a great price. Even if you're not local (I'm not), they are well worth a visit if you need a biggish job done.

Now, the engine rattle has completely gone, but I now hear a whine that rises in pitch in line with the engine revs. They did reckon the crank pulley needs attention — could this be the cause of the whine? The only downside is that the Honda part (13810 RBD E01), even from HH is £400 + 0.6 hrs labour. Found seemingly compatible parts on eBay for £120ish? Has anyone got experience of this? Any help duly appreciated!
 

Goodluckmonkey

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I have a spare pulley if you're interested?

Still bolted to my old motor.
 

JapCar

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bwdrew said:
They did reckon the crank pulley needs attention — could this be the cause of the whine?
Let somebody explain relation - this pulley to whine.
I think faulty crankshaft pulley gives different symptoms- shaking, vibrating, knocking...because it consists of two metal parts binded by rubber between them. So when pulley been removed it would be clearly visible its condition (unstuck parts) ...
 

bwdrew

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I reckon I've discovered the cause of the whine. After a bit of google searching, it seems that the o-ring on the inlet joint of the power steering pump may have failed (the whine, and bubbles in the reservoir are apparent symptoms). I've sourced a new o-ring (all of £2 from Honda!) and shall fit it this weekend. Finger's crossed!

Also of note — when they did the service on the car, according to the invoice, Holdcroft Honda stuck 5W-30 oil in it — i was of the belief that these diesel engines much prefer 0W-30. Reading the manual, it seems that 0W-30 is 'preferred'. Should I change it or is it not worth it?

Thanks everyone for all your help...
 

JapCar

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bwdrew said:
Also of note — when they did the service on the car, according to the invoice, Holdcroft Honda stuck 5W-30 oil in it — i was of the belief that these diesel engines much prefer 0W-30. Reading the manual, it seems that 0W-30 is 'preferred'. Should I change it or is it not worth it?

Thanks everyone for all your help...
Most people say should be 0W30 but Honda Bristol told me they use 5W30 as well, so I use 5W30...
 

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Jamie91

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Bumping this old thread <_<

I find myself in the same dilemma as bwdrew.

My Accord is on 141k now. Original clutch still (which is fine for normal driving), but there is a rattle which may be the timing chain.

Has anyone had the chain & injectors done for a reasonable price lately? Will give HH a call tomorrow

I need to weigh up the combined cost of the clutch + chains & injectors before acting... no point just doing 1 of the pair for the other to go and write the car off

bwdrew said:
Thanks Goodluckmonkey. Thanks also to Jon_G to sending me the link to his excellent write up on doing the job himself (http://typeaccord.co.uk/forum/topic/16473-replacement-of-engine-chains/). I'm not confident enough of my mechanical skills to attempt this though.

So, Holdcroft Honda got back to me, quoting £1100 all in, not including injectors. The chap I spoke seemed reassuring that new injectors would not be necessary, although I do run the risk of them being seized in the head, requiring replacement.

My main dilemma is whether to go with this, and hoping there are no further significant costs over the next few years, or to part-exchange it as it is on something newer with fewer miles.

Mine currently has 163k on it, but I'm not sure whether getting it done for this price is worth it if I'm faced with a similar bill in the not too distant future. I had the dual mass flywheel (with a replacement clutch) dealt with at 95k, and had the exhaust manifold replaced under warranty at about 120k, both of which I believe used updated parts, so shouldn't repeat their premature failures, although I guess I might need another clutch by 200k, possibly. Anything else I might have missed? To get something as economical, comfortable and practical, albeit newer with fewer miles is going to be whatever I can get for this (£2k?) plus another £6k or so. Is this car going to cost me £6k over the next 5 years? It's a tough one... Since Jan 2011, when I bought the car with 81k on it, I've spent £4700 on predominantly main dealer servicing (excluding the £1120 for the DMF), which have mostly been regular services and consumables (tyres, brakes etc) and of course something for £8k will have similar consumable costs. It's passed every MoT with only every very minor advisories, although I do need to get the rear ARB links seen to...

So, what would you do?
 

F6HAD

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Have a chat with member Grayedout he was the last that I know of.
 

Grayedout

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Had mine done recently for the following costs:

- Labour £447 + vat
- Full chain kit ~£350 from memory
- Oil pump sprocket (which is not in the kit) ~ £40
 

Richard B

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Information I'm reading seems to suggest the timing chain kits for the i-CTDi and i-DTEC engines are identical.

Does anyone know anything about this?

(the i-Dtec engine was sold here so there are local parts.. which saves me a tonne in shipping costs)
 

Jamie91

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Wow that is cheap. To clarify this is for the timing chain + injectors? What mileage did you get it done on? Was it making any noises?

Grayedout said:
Had mine done recently for the following costs:

- Labour £447 + vat
- Full chain kit ~£350 from memory
- Oil pump sprocket (which is not in the kit) ~ £40
 

Grayedout

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Jamie91 said:
Wow that is cheap. To clarify this is for the timing chain + injectors? What mileage did you get it done on? Was it making any noises?
No wasn't injectors just chains but made sure it was a full kit including all sprockets (except oil pump) and guides etc.

I had it done initially 18 months ago at 119,000 miles as the chains were getting noisy and cost me ~£850 for parts and labour but now questioning how good a job was done because a couple of months ago (147,000 miles) the oil pump drive chain snapped. Managed to kill the engine quickly and save any serious damage hence why I made sure the current job was done properly.
 

Jamie91

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Can you link me to where you bought the kit please?

Is the oil pump necessary for changing the timing chain?

Any reason why you didn't get the injectors done too?

Grayedout said:
No wasn't injectors just chains but made sure it was a full kit including all sprockets (except oil pump) and guides etc.

I had it done initially 18 months ago at 119,000 miles as the chains were getting noisy and cost me ~£850 for parts and labour but now questioning how good a job was done because a couple of months ago (147,000 miles) the oil pump drive chain snapped. Managed to kill the engine quickly and save any serious damage hence why I made sure the current job was done properly.
 

Grayedout

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Jamie91 said:
Can you link me to where you bought the kit please?

Is the oil pump necessary for changing the timing chain?

Any reason why you didn't get the injectors done too?
Got the kit through my local parts shop and will find the details tomorrow.

Didn't change the oil pump itself but just the drive sprocket as it would not have been good practice to fit a new chain to a previously worn sprocket.

No reason the injectors would need changing. I took them out myself and had them cleaned but good as new after that.
 

Richard B

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The kit is on Aliexpress, at £107 delivered. Plus whatever import tax your country adds to that. If you're not comfortable with Aliexpress, it is also resold on Ebay for a bit more than that.
 

Jamie91

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Please do that would great. Presumably the OP was told to change injectors as his were deemed to need replacement anyway, and not just because the timing chain was due.


Grayedout said:
Got the kit through my local parts shop and will find the details tomorrow.

Didn't change the oil pump itself but just the drive sprocket as it would not have been good practice to fit a new chain to a previously worn sprocket.

No reason the injectors would need changing. I took them out myself and had them cleaned but good as new after that.
Comes to US 148 for me. Not sure if that includes VAT though , but even if it does not, it is still less than GBP 350

Richard B said:
The kit is on Aliexpress, at £107 delivered. Plus whatever import tax your country adds to that. If you're not comfortable with Aliexpress, it is also resold on Ebay for a bit more than that.
 

bwdrew

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Jamie91 said:
Please do that would great. Presumably the OP was told to change injectors as his were deemed to need replacement anyway, and not just because the timing chain was due.
No. The original quote of over £3k only included the injectors because my local dealer reckoned they might be seized in the head. When I got it repaired at HH the injectors were retained. Now, 70k miles later, I’m still on the same, original injectors.

For info, they replaced both chains - oil pump and camshafts and all sprockets. You shouldn’t run new chains on old sprockets if you don’t want premature wear.
 

Grayedout

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I think they usualy ***ume they will damage the injectors because they are heavy handed and don't want to spend the time gently easing them out.

This is why I removed them myself both times prior to the chain replacement so I knew they would not be an issue.
 

Grayedout

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The kit I used was Ultraparts TK210P and my local motor factor in Derbyshire is happy to supply it for £335 incl VAT.
 

Jamie91

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Sounds like a good mechanic can do the timing chain without damaging the injectors.

But if I get a quote from a mechanic to change the timing chain, he isn't going to take his time with easing the injectors out so they will get damaged.... don't know how to approach this efficiently
bwdrew said:
No. The original quote of over £3k only included the injectors because my local dealer reckoned they might be seized in the head. When I got it repaired at HH the injectors were retained. Now, 70k miles later, I’m still on the same, original injectors.

For info, they replaced both chains - oil pump and camshafts and all sprockets. You shouldn’t run new chains on old sprockets if you don’t want premature wear.
Grayedout said:
I think they usualy ***ume they will damage the injectors because they are heavy handed and don't want to spend the time gently easing them out.

This is why I removed them myself both times prior to the chain replacement so I knew they would not be an issue.
Thanks. Is that the same kit as post 25, which is a lot cheaper?

Grayedout said:
The kit I used was Ultraparts TK210P and my local motor factor in Derbyshire is happy to supply it for £335 incl VAT.
 
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