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Heavy black smoke - overfueling?

2v50

2v50

Member
Messages
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14
Location
Edinburgh
Car
Mk7 Tourer 2.2 I-CDT
Hi all, this post is mildy embarrassing. Hopefully my process and eventual result will help someone in future. My Accord has been laid up for 6 months with a snapped injector bolt that the mobile guy who came up on google didn't want to touch , turned out I should have just called a local engineering company. Not what you know it's who you know sometimes!
Now, having had to also replace the #4 injector , cleaned and refitted all injectors with new washers ect, the car is very unhappy. Smokes so badly I can't hope to take it for MOT. ( Which ran out on the 10th )

My HDS clone won't connect to the laptop via serial adaptor so I'm stuck with borrowing a snap-on solus legend.

It fails to run imrc and fuel rail pressure tests so I'm unable to get accurate results there, but requested matches the results in live data. ( It says the engine speed is out of range at idle - 819-824 is the idle revs range ) injector tests ect as follows

Original 3 plus #4 replaced with the original one that had previously been replaced for being a little out of range.

Fuel quantity which ECU adjusts No.1 Cylinder:-1.7 mg
No.2 Cylinder:-0.3 mg
No.3 Cylinder:-0.9 mg
No.4 Cylinder: 2.9 mg Elapsed Time:25s

Next is live data , as I didn't take a photo of the first test with new injectors for some reasons - this is all four injectors replaced with ones from a scrap civic.

Injector 1 correction Quantity(mg)
-1.4
Injector 2 correction Quantity(mg)
-0.9
Injector 3 correction Quantity(mg)
-0.5
Injector 4 correction Quantity(mg)
2.9

A trend begins with the #4 injector.
Running daig tests meant getting the engine up to temperature. This left a huge soot mark on the ground.

Turbo boost test first result was - Injector quantity out of range turn off all electrical devices.
Second was actuator normal.

Next injector test -
Fuel quantity which ECU adjusts No.1 Cylinder:-0.4 mg
No.2 Cylinder:-0.3 mg
No.3 Cylinder:-0.2 mg
No.4 Cylinder: 1.0 mg
Elapsed Time: 6s
A big improvement here. As I had ordered the new injector the moment that I fitted the old one previously and the car wasn't happy, getting ones from a scrap car for testing was a plus , although I know using scrap injectors isn't exactly the best idea!
I'm going to replace #4 today with a known good one. If the postie turns up anyway!
My 3 intact injectors from prior to sitting should be fine but mine were needing a clean as first run they weren't seating well and got filthy . Cleaned the injector seat, new copper washers, didn't change the smoke sadly, but the injectors seem to be seated well at least.

On thr driving side, there was an intermittent misfire - once warm intermittently rough running for a while. I discovered I'd put the vacuum lines for the egr on the wrong way round when putting the solenoid back in place. Switching them back around appears to have rectified the misfiring.
The car idles well other than a constant slight smoke and smell of fuel. Any amount of revs causes large cloud of black smoke. In motion the car is a little sluggish but not to the level of a boost leak or such. Boost comes on fine. No apparent issues there beyond the severe smoke. There are no stored codes and the eml light is not illuminated, the car isn't going into limp mode.

Checked air filter - needs replacing but it's not bad enough to cause issues.
Checked the imrc , no excess of oil sitting in the bottom.

I should get a HDS on it on Monday if I still can't get mine working but I'm feeling like something else is the issue here. The car was laid up from approximately the start of August. Over half a tank of Costco premium diesel in it.

Driving me up the wall - I've got till the 29th to fix it as I've surgery then which will leave me even more reliant on a car than now. Any suggestions would be much appreciated.


I'm ***uming that one injector is leaking - but which one is the question. I'll continue pottering away at figuring it out in the meantime. Every day is a school day , theres always more to learn, hopefully I'm missing something stupid

Update:
Refurbished injector came. Results of testing as follows
Fuel quantity which ECU adjusts
No.1 Cylinder:-0.3 mg
No.2 Cylinder:-0.8 mg
No.3 Cylinder: 0.5 mg
No. 4 Cylinder:0.5 mg
Elapsed Time:25s
Nicer results but it's currently still smoking!

Continue
 
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Those results look a lot better. I personally think your egr is slightly stuck open and leaking internally. Would suggest blanking temporarily to see if it cures it and then decide if you want a permanent solution.
 
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It's still blanked from when you mapped it
I took it round the block in 1st abusing the throttle. Redline , repeatedly... Huge puff of smoke the first time, not as bad the second, turning less black each time. Car is now smoking a lot less - barely visible film of smoke, and not staining the ground black under it the second the throttle is applied. Same on cold or hot ... probably about how it was before. I think i could do with another three refurb injectors, though I actually think the ones from the scrappies are pretty good considering...
Turbo is a little noiser than I remember but I'm very paranoid about noises. And I've been driving a non-turbo car a lot... I'll see if the lack of smoke continues and if it gets through MOT. I'll keep this thread updated - seems weird that an injector would fail like this, or that just sitting would cause so much smoke.
 
Ah sorry hadn’t realised it was already egr off, I only scan read the thread. It’s worth giving the injectors some time to bed in properly and running some additive through. It’s going to be a fuelling issue now.
 
I figured so! Been just a few days past a year now since I came down to you for that. - doesn't at all feel like it.
It's got premium fuel with cleaner in it, just the problem of it's all 6 month old fuel. All the injectors bar one sat out disconnected for months waiting on an injector removal tool ( that still hasn't come!!), till I caved and bought a different one. Local injector removal guy would answer the phone but insist on communicating via text or email - and never once replied on either of those so I gave up quite promptly. The injector in #4 started to come apart from the slide hammer , and the 'legend'
Pneumatic injector removal tool didn't do it much good when it took it out. Wrong copper washer had been used and leaked badly too, so I replaced it with the injector original to that which had been working but hds showed it as well out compared to the others so that was replaced sometime in 2022, after a 20 mpg drop in avg mpg!

Honestly the difference with the refurb injector was fairly quick - within half an hour it had settled down, and the quick blast round the estate seems to have brought it back to what I'd expect for old fuel. Fuel coming through seems fine but I've no doubt sitting has not done it any favours. I'll probably drive it like I stole it down to MOT - the mechanic who I go to is a friend so hopeful he'll be happy to pop.it on HDS and run the tests that the snap-on was failing. The car has always responded well to an Italian tune up, although it makes me a little nervous.

I'll see how I get on, I've more injectors than I know what to do with - heading for 3 partial sets sitting, some of a different design than , 3 different part numbers as well.

I tried to replace the Honda with a Saab 9-3 but that lasted all of 400 miles before going haywire on me - plus side I'll have a nice summer car once it's sorted. '07 'vert, 2.8 Hirsch tuned. Not as comfortable as the Accord but wow is it quick!
 
Update - Passed the MOT. Mechanic says look for a new car.
Well that ain't happening - Can't afford another one to start with!
Lack of power and white-grey smoke when on the throttle. Reeks of diesel behind it. Considering the car sat for so long I was expecting a worse result. I'm ***uming old fuel is probably not the cause but that it won't be helping, I'd think an injection issue but it seems to have carried over through two different sets of injectors. Any thoughts? I'm happy enough stripping her back down if need be, though the injector bolts make me nervous now !
Edit : just come off the city bypass - think it's got a miss, vibration when on the throttle , particularly noticeable under load
 
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How low is the fuel tank ?

Just thinking you may have been running the dregs through pipes and the important parts near the engine.

Why not fill up with some premium diesel ?
 
Half a tank of (old now) premium in it. Now a full tank - topped it off with fresh fuel earlier. Sadly no improvement as of yet. 35 miles covered since refuel ,just scraping above 30mpg, and smoking and vibrating like it's missing when on the throttle. Seriously lacking power! I've started swapping injectors back, done #1 so far , no change. Now it's frozen over out and I've already almost fell on my backside once !
For once I'd like it to throw a code and actually tell me something!
 
Misfiring will be down to a bad injector mate. Try running a leak back test before removing them all again
 
2v50 said:
Half a tank of (old now) premium in it. Now a full tank - topped it off with fresh fuel earlier. Sadly no improvement as of yet. 35 miles covered since refuel ,just scraping above 30mpg, and smoking and vibrating like it's missing when on the throttle. Seriously lacking power! I've started swapping injectors back, done #1 so far , no change. Now it's frozen over out and I've already almost fell on my backside once !
For once I'd like it to throw a code and actually tell me something!
Click to expand...


Rotten fuel will often need a complete flush. if the tank isn't close to empty you are putting more contamintion forward.
 
I'll get on that stat - ebay kit here I come ( well, amazon, but it will probably be single use junk, beggers can't be choosers and I'm not going to bodge one, though I should!). I changed #2 as well now anyway, I'm starting to think the injectors out of a civic were not the greatest... also a different part number. Looks to be far less smoke but without someone behind me I can't say for certain.
The horrible ticking noise that led to a snapped bolt and this entire saga returned at random while testing. No sign of leaks from the injector seals, and it sounds exactly like this - Accord i-CTDI Crankshaft Pulley (youtube.com).
The car is punishing me for leaving it for so long, or so it feels. The missus has named it Bayonetta, or 'Netta for short... I've not played the games so I wonder if it's a good namesake... !
Thank you

( this should have sent last night, not sure why it hasn't ! )

I'd hope the fuel hasn't went bad in just over 6 months, particularly as it did have a treatment in with it at the time, it's certainly in the list of potentials though. The mild improvement messing about with injectors seems promising, the clattering from the crank pully area however, does not. Nor the overly loud whine of the turbo on a cold start. 11 days left to fix this car before I'll be unable to do so myself. Not promising..!
On the diesel front, any ideas on what to expect from bad fuel, beyond poor running? it smells fine, both from the pipes and the exhaust and it passed the smoke test (albeit barely) for mot!
Sadly the car is currently scrapyard dodging !
 

Injector Refitted - Fails to Start

Hello, Well I did say for now I have only problems not solutions when I joined the forum… Does anyone have experience of an Accord diesel engine failing to start after re-fitting an injector and what was the cause? I’ve included some more detail and history below. History: Although it’s...
typeaccord.co.uk

www.ebay.co.uk

HONDA ACCORD MK7 2.2 CDTI DIESEL FUEL INJECTOR SET X4 0445110296 2003-2008 | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for HONDA ACCORD MK7 2.2 CDTI DIESEL FUEL INJECTOR SET X4 0445110296 2003-2008 at the best online prices at eBay! Free delivery for many products.
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Leak back test kit took too long so I swapped fully back to orig injectors bar the refurb. Slight black smoke on throttle, a gentle white on idle. Can be see as it drifts in front of the headlights when stationary, nothing nearly as bad as it was. Did a leak back test - cheap and horrible kit, # 4 popped off twice but estimating the loss gives aprox 60ml from 5 mins running but the other 3 came out close. #1 70ml
#2 65ml
#3 60ml

I'm not getting any results for reference values - but the improvement upon returning to my ***umed original to the car injectors seems promising.
Sadly, for now it's the end of the saga as the crank pully is on it's way out. Noisy as anything, looks like it's wobbling somewhat to the eye, when viewed in slow-mo from a mobile camera ( I love technology! ), a very obvious jerk, perfectly in time for the clattering it's making. Urgent replacement on the cards there. Doesn't look fun - and I'm not sure at all about ebay parts but genuine Honda is going to be a hard choice right now .

A side note, the 3 injectors from a scrap civic all acquired some pretty severe carbon buildup, very quickly.
I hope to return with better news on the old car asap. If anyone has tips for the crank pully , hit me with them - not a job I've done before. Currently coming up with what tools needed , I don't own a spanner long enough to reach the tensioner to even get the belt off atm!
 
Crank pully done - cracked two sockets in it. Long 14mm made short work of the belt tensioner. No more sewing machine tick!

The car has thrown a code to work with - P1236. Found one vacuum line barely on...time to check what else isn't on, the rocker cover was off so things got disturbed a fair bit!

Having driven 80~ miles since last post I can more accurately give the symptoms. Black-gray smoke behind the car under load, vibration at low revs when under load, lack of overall power. Although the car is coming into power at around the correct rev range since getting that vacuum line pushed all the way on, it's a struggle to get up to speed without pinning it in every gear. Managing no more than 35mpg. I don't expect to get much further with it for a while - surgery on Monday so I'll be out of action for quite a while.

Going to use the opportunity today to check over vacuum lines ect, any ideas as always appreciated, sadly if it's parts or testing it will need to wait a few months. Not going to do the old girl much good driving like this but she'll need to deal with it!
 
To me this is a classic injector issue. I’ve not read the thread back to back but sounds like you just need 4 known good injectors from a running car.
 
2v50 said:
I also a different part number.
Click to expand...
Honda ***igns different part numbers to identical parts when they go into a different model. You can usually find out cross-compatibility by looking at compatibility specs via 3rd party vendors. Think about it from the designer's perspective - every time they insist on a custom part the cost rises dramatically, so mostly they try and work with parts that are already in an existing parts bin.
 
Hi there, maybe a stupid one, but you never mentioned that you recode the injectors to ECU. Did you do it after changing the injectors? If you didn't, there's your problem. For many this is common knowledge, but for some it is not.
 
Recoding injectors won’t solve that.
 
F6HAD said:
Recoding injectors won’t solve that.
Click to expand...
Care to explain why not? As i understand, coding will tell to ecu exactly what amount of fuel particular injector lets fuel through - hence the calibration number. But you might be right, most likely it is still a bad injector issue there.

My two n22a1’s smoked as well while accelerating and new injectors solved it 100%
 
Because coding will solve for very minute tolerances that aid smooth running, but not account for the heavy smoking or running issues being described here. The coding represents very tiny microscopic differences in mechanical variations. I’ve been around diesels many years now, this issue is down to bad injectors, he just needs a decent matching set taken from a known well running car based on what I can see from the thread.
 
F6HAD said:
Because coding will solve for very minute tolerances that aid smooth running, but not account for the heavy smoking or running issues being described here. The coding represents very tiny microscopic differences in mechanical variations. I’ve been around diesels many years now, this issue is down to bad injectors, he just needs a decent matching set taken from a known well running car based on what I can see from the thread.
Click to expand...

fair enough. Point taken.
 
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