Hi Guys,
I am having issues with getting my 7th Gen I-CTDi Accord to start post a timing chain / oil pump chain change. So basically the car has been off the road since August after the oil pump chain snapped on me at just over 113,240 miles. I had been on Holiday and the car had been sat on the drive way unused for just over 3 weeks. I got approx. 8 miles down the road to work (daily work commute 90 mile round trip) and as I slowed for a junction and started to turn left into the junction the oil pump light came on. Upon seeing the oil light come on I immediately turned the engine off and coasted to a halt on the side of the road. The car had been last serviced 9 months before at 102,072 miles and was due service again in the next couple of weeks (approx. 800 miles).
So before trying to restart the car again, knowing that it is was close to its next service I jumped out and checked the oil level on the dip stick. The oil was quite black and was at the 1/2 full mark on the dip stick. I had a spare 1 litre bottle of top up oil I always carried in the boot, so I put 3/4 of this into the car which brought it back up to the full point on the dip stick. I then got back into the car and restarted the engine, the car fired up straight away but the oil light was still on, I waited approx. 1 minute and then turned the engine off. I then rang the RAC who came out to me extremely quickly.
I described the symptoms to the RAC mechanic who immediately told me that the oil pump chain had more than likely snapped, this was even before he had turned the key or popped the bonnet. He told me it was a common fault with Honda Accords 2004 - 2005 and he had been out to a number of them with this fault. He then proceeded to tell me that there was a Honda warranty on the oil pump chains, this was as long as the car was 7 years old or less / max 125,000 and it had a full service history. However with the car being now over 10 years old it was outside of this warranty. He popped the bonnet and started the car and confirmed that his thoughts were that it was oil pump chain, but to get a garage to double check. He towed the car back to my local garage and I got them to double check the RAC mans conclusion.
The local garage swapped the oil filter for a new one and plug the car into diagnostics and found no faults other than no oil pressure. Then then popped off the oil filter housing cover and found that there was absolutely no flow of oil then then towed the car back to my house and dumped into back on my drive. They then rang me to tell me there findings and said that the cost in labour to repair would be over £1,000 and they could not guarantee the injectors would come out. They basically advised me that the cost in parts and labour would be around what the car was worth (£2,000 - £2,500) and that they were not willing to do it.
I rung up my local Honda dealership who confirmed that due to the age of the car it was outside of the oil pump chain replacement program even though it had a full Honda service history and under the 125,000k mark. Then said that they would be able to help me out on the parts at a much reduced rate but were the cost of labour for them would be over £1,500. They also said they could not guarantee not damaging the injectors on removal. So basically I sat on the car on the drive for a couple of months whilst I decided what the best course of action was. End of November I then made the decision that I would complete the job myself, I am heavily into my Honda CRX's and have a various tools such as engine cranes etc. So I went on the internet and research the best places to get all the parts to complete the oil pump chain change.
I went to Honda and got Timing Chain Kit including all guides, tensioner arm and tensioner and also the Oil Pump Chain Kit including guide, tensioner arm and tensioner for £519 including VAT. They heavily discounted the parts for me, I also got injector gaskets for £23 and new oil filter for £12 including VAT from Honda. I then went on eBay and bought a Diesel Injector Puller Extractor Master Kit for £75 form UK Tools Direct. Loctite Premium Black Silicone Gasket Maker £9.50 for the sump, Loctite RTV 5920 Copper Silicone Gasket Maker £12.99 for the Timing chain cover. To ***ist with the job (absolutely must have) I also got a set of pro aviation extra long FLAT double ring spanner set 8mm to 19mm for £20. All other tools I had myself such as the engine crane, torque wrenches, impact gun etc etc.
I addition to the above I got a friend to get me 10 litres of cheap 0W/30 oil from work to flush my engine out post the timing chain change. I then got 7 litres of Castrol FST A5 0W30 oil and Slick 50 Fully Synthetic Engine Treatment motor oil, this was for when I had completed the first flush of the engine post the job (after my planned 2 hours of idling on the drive way).
So over the course of a couple of weekends I completed the timing chain / oil pump chain swap, it was a bit of a nightmare to complete as Honda had certainly designed every single part on the car to be in the way of another part. In some ways it would of probably of been quicker and easier to of removed the engine, however I got there in the end with plenty of entertainment. The only way to complete the job with the engine in the car was attach it to an engine crane. Drop the subframe on the car by 2 inches all round and removed the rear engine mount, gearbox auxiliary mount and exhaust connection. I then undid the passenger side engine mount slightly to allow easier movement of the engine. Through all of this the drive shafts remained in place. On removal of the side cover I found the Oil Pump Chain snapped and also the Oil Pump chain guide cracked. This confirmed the RAC man diagnosis of what was wrong with the car. I located all of the pieces of metal from the chain and one small piece of plastic in the bottom of the sump.
I used a combination of the Autodata workshop guide and also the Honda workshop guide to complete the job. The only moment I did not follow the work shop guides was when removing the crank pulley bolt, after much struggling I got it off using the "Red Neck" method which worked a treat. I also started lubricating the engine (cheap 0W30) as I put it back together and turned the engine over a few times on the starter motor with the injectors removed and disconnected to get oil around the engine.
Anyway coming to the reason of this post I completed putting the car back together before Xmas making, and everything went back together fine. I then reconnected the battery on the car to discover the alarm system decided it wanted to go off. After much key pressing, locking and unlocking the car the alarm would not stop going off. I then connected my CRX to the car (after some advice from a friend) and left it running with the Accord alarm going off. After about 20 minutes on charge from my CRX the Alarm finally decided to shut up! I then proceed to connect my little diagnostics computer and found 10 DTC faults which I believe were related to me turning the engine over with the injector / fuel system disconnected (I had 10 sensors unplugged off top of engine when turning over to get oil around the engine).
Codes...
P0102 - Honda Mass Air Flow Sensor Circuit Low Voltage
P0113 - Intake Air Temperature High Input
P1384 - Glow Plug Circuit Malfunction
P0403 - EGR Valve Circuit
P0098 - Intake Air Temperature Sensor 2 High Input
P0118 - Engine Coolant Temp Sensor Circuit High Voltage
P2017 - IMRC Position
P0108 - Manifold Pressure
P0045 - Turbo Boost Control Circuit
P0193 - Fuel Pressure High Input
I then used my little computer to clear all of the codes and the engine light cleared. I then proceed to try and start the car, the car turns over freely put would not start. I spent a good 30 - 40 minutes with the car connected on jump leads to two other cars trying to get it to start with my dad continuously pump the hand primer. The car carried on turning over freely put but would not fire up at all. I then went through a process of checks, and confirmed that all four injectors were receiving fuel and were all returning fuel. I reconnected my diagnostics computer to find no faults. I then carried on for another couple of hours checking all connections, hand priming the fuel system up and turning it over for it not to fire even once. The only conclusion I have come to is the injectors are not spraying a drop of fuel into the engine, there is absolutely no smell of diesel coming out of the exhaust.
I have then a video of the car etc and posted it on you tube, see this link... https://youtu.be/zvUNqVa3GeE
Has anyone else experienced this issue / problem when doing a chain replacement job? I am at a complete loss to why the car will not start. I have spent a fair amount of £££ getting genuine parts and also a lot of time over the weekends doing the work to get the car back on the road.
Any help or advice will be gratefully received!
I am having issues with getting my 7th Gen I-CTDi Accord to start post a timing chain / oil pump chain change. So basically the car has been off the road since August after the oil pump chain snapped on me at just over 113,240 miles. I had been on Holiday and the car had been sat on the drive way unused for just over 3 weeks. I got approx. 8 miles down the road to work (daily work commute 90 mile round trip) and as I slowed for a junction and started to turn left into the junction the oil pump light came on. Upon seeing the oil light come on I immediately turned the engine off and coasted to a halt on the side of the road. The car had been last serviced 9 months before at 102,072 miles and was due service again in the next couple of weeks (approx. 800 miles).
So before trying to restart the car again, knowing that it is was close to its next service I jumped out and checked the oil level on the dip stick. The oil was quite black and was at the 1/2 full mark on the dip stick. I had a spare 1 litre bottle of top up oil I always carried in the boot, so I put 3/4 of this into the car which brought it back up to the full point on the dip stick. I then got back into the car and restarted the engine, the car fired up straight away but the oil light was still on, I waited approx. 1 minute and then turned the engine off. I then rang the RAC who came out to me extremely quickly.
I described the symptoms to the RAC mechanic who immediately told me that the oil pump chain had more than likely snapped, this was even before he had turned the key or popped the bonnet. He told me it was a common fault with Honda Accords 2004 - 2005 and he had been out to a number of them with this fault. He then proceeded to tell me that there was a Honda warranty on the oil pump chains, this was as long as the car was 7 years old or less / max 125,000 and it had a full service history. However with the car being now over 10 years old it was outside of this warranty. He popped the bonnet and started the car and confirmed that his thoughts were that it was oil pump chain, but to get a garage to double check. He towed the car back to my local garage and I got them to double check the RAC mans conclusion.
The local garage swapped the oil filter for a new one and plug the car into diagnostics and found no faults other than no oil pressure. Then then popped off the oil filter housing cover and found that there was absolutely no flow of oil then then towed the car back to my house and dumped into back on my drive. They then rang me to tell me there findings and said that the cost in labour to repair would be over £1,000 and they could not guarantee the injectors would come out. They basically advised me that the cost in parts and labour would be around what the car was worth (£2,000 - £2,500) and that they were not willing to do it.
I rung up my local Honda dealership who confirmed that due to the age of the car it was outside of the oil pump chain replacement program even though it had a full Honda service history and under the 125,000k mark. Then said that they would be able to help me out on the parts at a much reduced rate but were the cost of labour for them would be over £1,500. They also said they could not guarantee not damaging the injectors on removal. So basically I sat on the car on the drive for a couple of months whilst I decided what the best course of action was. End of November I then made the decision that I would complete the job myself, I am heavily into my Honda CRX's and have a various tools such as engine cranes etc. So I went on the internet and research the best places to get all the parts to complete the oil pump chain change.
I went to Honda and got Timing Chain Kit including all guides, tensioner arm and tensioner and also the Oil Pump Chain Kit including guide, tensioner arm and tensioner for £519 including VAT. They heavily discounted the parts for me, I also got injector gaskets for £23 and new oil filter for £12 including VAT from Honda. I then went on eBay and bought a Diesel Injector Puller Extractor Master Kit for £75 form UK Tools Direct. Loctite Premium Black Silicone Gasket Maker £9.50 for the sump, Loctite RTV 5920 Copper Silicone Gasket Maker £12.99 for the Timing chain cover. To ***ist with the job (absolutely must have) I also got a set of pro aviation extra long FLAT double ring spanner set 8mm to 19mm for £20. All other tools I had myself such as the engine crane, torque wrenches, impact gun etc etc.
I addition to the above I got a friend to get me 10 litres of cheap 0W/30 oil from work to flush my engine out post the timing chain change. I then got 7 litres of Castrol FST A5 0W30 oil and Slick 50 Fully Synthetic Engine Treatment motor oil, this was for when I had completed the first flush of the engine post the job (after my planned 2 hours of idling on the drive way).
So over the course of a couple of weekends I completed the timing chain / oil pump chain swap, it was a bit of a nightmare to complete as Honda had certainly designed every single part on the car to be in the way of another part. In some ways it would of probably of been quicker and easier to of removed the engine, however I got there in the end with plenty of entertainment. The only way to complete the job with the engine in the car was attach it to an engine crane. Drop the subframe on the car by 2 inches all round and removed the rear engine mount, gearbox auxiliary mount and exhaust connection. I then undid the passenger side engine mount slightly to allow easier movement of the engine. Through all of this the drive shafts remained in place. On removal of the side cover I found the Oil Pump Chain snapped and also the Oil Pump chain guide cracked. This confirmed the RAC man diagnosis of what was wrong with the car. I located all of the pieces of metal from the chain and one small piece of plastic in the bottom of the sump.
I used a combination of the Autodata workshop guide and also the Honda workshop guide to complete the job. The only moment I did not follow the work shop guides was when removing the crank pulley bolt, after much struggling I got it off using the "Red Neck" method which worked a treat. I also started lubricating the engine (cheap 0W30) as I put it back together and turned the engine over a few times on the starter motor with the injectors removed and disconnected to get oil around the engine.
Anyway coming to the reason of this post I completed putting the car back together before Xmas making, and everything went back together fine. I then reconnected the battery on the car to discover the alarm system decided it wanted to go off. After much key pressing, locking and unlocking the car the alarm would not stop going off. I then connected my CRX to the car (after some advice from a friend) and left it running with the Accord alarm going off. After about 20 minutes on charge from my CRX the Alarm finally decided to shut up! I then proceed to connect my little diagnostics computer and found 10 DTC faults which I believe were related to me turning the engine over with the injector / fuel system disconnected (I had 10 sensors unplugged off top of engine when turning over to get oil around the engine).
Codes...
P0102 - Honda Mass Air Flow Sensor Circuit Low Voltage
P0113 - Intake Air Temperature High Input
P1384 - Glow Plug Circuit Malfunction
P0403 - EGR Valve Circuit
P0098 - Intake Air Temperature Sensor 2 High Input
P0118 - Engine Coolant Temp Sensor Circuit High Voltage
P2017 - IMRC Position
P0108 - Manifold Pressure
P0045 - Turbo Boost Control Circuit
P0193 - Fuel Pressure High Input
I then used my little computer to clear all of the codes and the engine light cleared. I then proceed to try and start the car, the car turns over freely put would not start. I spent a good 30 - 40 minutes with the car connected on jump leads to two other cars trying to get it to start with my dad continuously pump the hand primer. The car carried on turning over freely put but would not fire up at all. I then went through a process of checks, and confirmed that all four injectors were receiving fuel and were all returning fuel. I reconnected my diagnostics computer to find no faults. I then carried on for another couple of hours checking all connections, hand priming the fuel system up and turning it over for it not to fire even once. The only conclusion I have come to is the injectors are not spraying a drop of fuel into the engine, there is absolutely no smell of diesel coming out of the exhaust.
I have then a video of the car etc and posted it on you tube, see this link... https://youtu.be/zvUNqVa3GeE
Has anyone else experienced this issue / problem when doing a chain replacement job? I am at a complete loss to why the car will not start. I have spent a fair amount of £££ getting genuine parts and also a lot of time over the weekends doing the work to get the car back on the road.
Any help or advice will be gratefully received!