Oil - the age old argument - weird experince

[entwisi]

OK, had my Accord nearly 3 years now and am on my 7th oil and filter change. Up till recently the National/Kwik fits/ATS websites/guys always recommended and used 0-30 as we all expect on here. As I'm due another I just rang round etc and every one of them is now saying it should be 5-30 and their head office directives is that they must use the recommended grade... So, arguments of 0-30 vs 5-30 aside why do we reckon that they have all "shifted" their recommendations... now being cynical I'd question is it just so they only have to stock one grade of oil and drive economy of scale/buying power or is it that Honda has updated its recommendations to these guys ( I ***ume there is some internal comms channels between these pretty big players )

but, what would you do.... if Shell are saying its good enough then would you trust them? My car is now near as damn 200K so is likley to be a little worn so a thicker oil probably wont hurt mine so much..

 

[Salim]

Bigger margins on 5-30 over 0w, mind you most indi garages will never put 0w in your diesel unless specifically told.
Even honda say 5w is ok, but for optimum protection 0w-30.
Either way best to stick to 0w-30 for the diesel.

 

[jabal]

I have had my accord serviced at the same main dealer since new and I have repeatedly asked why they use 5-30W oil and I always get the same reply that Honda recommend
5 -30W for the 7th series diesel engine. I must add that I have now done 122,000 miles in 5 years with no problems.

 

[Jon_G]

Unfortunately, my timing chain has recently been getting noticeably noisier - as the cost of replacement is likely to exceed the value of the car, I'm wondering if thicker oil than my usual 0W-30 would make it a bit quieter.

Any thoughts?

 

[barneyrubble]

honda don't recommend 5w 30 they recommend 0w 30

both oils are the same when hot that is the 30 difference is when cold the 0w flows better so will oil the chaim better than 5w

 

[Jon_G]

honda don't recommend 5w 30 they recommend 0w 30

both oils are the same when hot that is the 30 difference is when cold the 0w flows better so will oil the chaim better than 5w

In my 2005 diesel Accord owners manual, several different ranges of viscosity oils are recommended (including 0w-30 and 5w30).

I'm not sure, but just because it flows more freely doesn't mean that it actually better lubricates better, does it? For instance, grease is quite thick, but has excellent lubrication properties.

And isn't the reason for the "0" rating because it flows more readily, therefore reducing the load on the oil pump chain?

 

[vile]

Jon tbo I would say a thicker oil will make your chain worse as it will have to work harder to run the drive of your engine.
Thicker oil is better for very high mileage engines for things line pistons and other internal components.
But for our cars as its very refined stick to 0w-30 mate.

 

[Jon_G]

Jon tbo I would say a thicker oil will make your chain worse as it will have to work harder to run the drive of your engine.
Thicker oil is better for very high mileage engines for things line pistons and other internal components.
But for our cars as its very refined stick to 0w-30 mate.

Hi Brett - It's my timing chain that's noisy, not the oil pump drive chain... mine is a high miler (over 140k)... I don't think that it's very refined anymore!!!

It's a light-hearted kind of question really- I know that using a thicker oil ain't any sort of repair, but if (hypothetically ) I wanted to get rid of my car at a dealers, would it make the noisy chain a bit quieter for a short while?

 

[vile]

As a guess Jon I think it will make it worse tbo as the timing chain will be turning internal componants.
Hence if a thicker oil is used it would put more pressure on your timing chain and causing it to work harder.

 

[Jon_G]

You're probably correct. Or would it become quieter if it had more load on it, thereby stopping it thrashing about? Maybe thicker oil would clog it up a bit and make it quieter? I guess no one really knows for sure... perhaps I should experiment... what have I got to lose?

 

[Jon_G]

OK, had my Accord nearly 3 years now and am on my 7th oil and filter change. Up till recently the National/Kwik fits/ATS websites/guys always recommended and used 0-30 as we all expect on here. As I'm due another I just rang round etc and every one of them is now saying it should be 5-30 and their head office directives is that they must use the recommended grade... So, arguments of 0-30 vs 5-30 aside why do we reckon that they have all "shifted" their recommendations... now being cynical I'd question is it just so they only have to stock one grade of oil and drive economy of scale/buying power or is it that Honda has updated its recommendations to these guys ( I ***ume there is some internal comms channels between these pretty big players )

but, what would you do.... if Shell are saying its good enough then would you trust them? My car is now near as damn 200K so is likley to be a little worn so a thicker oil probably wont hurt mine so much..

Apologies for my thread-jacking.

At your mileage I don't reckon it'll matter too much. Although - if the slightly thicker oil does cause your engine to fail - then I don't suppose any of these garages (or Shell) will entertain your claim for a replacement engine!

 

[vile]

Very true it would be an experiment.
Also you could try 0w-20 as well on the other side of the coin.
But tbo mate if it was my car I would just stick with 0w-30 and hope when you sell it's not picked up.
When I sold by derv 7th gen the dealers didn't even start my car and the deal was already done.

 

[Mr Honda]

Stick with 0w30 dude, it's the only oil recommended by Honda for the 2.2 diesel. There's also a thread on here about adding 2 stroke oil to your tank for smoother running, not sure if that has any side effects but it could be worth a try :unsure:

 

[tbourner]

I have had my accord serviced at the same main dealer since new and I have repeatedly asked why they use 5-30W oil and I always get the same reply that Honda recommend 5 -30W for the 7th series diesel engine.

What Honda garage is that? I've only ever dealt with two Honda garages but they both say 0w30.

 

[Mr Honda]

Lets face it, a car dealer who got a special deal on a bulk order of oil can/will say anything to get rid of the oil....Honda Motor Company though only recommend 0w-30, stick with that!!

 

[entwisi]

but do they? my owners manual lists all different grades and the ambient temperatures that they can be used... IIRC no where does it actually say " we recommend only 0-30"

 

[Jon_G]

but do they? my owners manual lists all different grades and the ambient temperatures that they can be used... IIRC no where does it actually say " we recommend only 0-30"

I agree - my owners manual specifies a variety of oil viscocities applicable against temperature - most of these overlap with our expectations for the UK. However, it is possible that Honda have since updated their recommendation to be only for 0w-30?

Despite my previous musings above, in all the time I've owned my Honda (4.5 years/60k+) I've only ever used 0w-30... and was pleased to see that this is the overwhelming recommendation from members of this site.

However, it would be very useful if those (not having a pop at you Baz, honest) who claim that "Honda only recommend 0w-30" would bother to actually quote their source for this information, as this could then be used by members who have a disagreement with their garage regarding which oil to use (especially if it's a Honda garage they wish to argue with!). Personally, I have no idea what Honda actually recommend, but I am interested.

 

[Mr Honda]

but do they? my owners manual lists all different grades and the ambient temperatures that they can be used... IIRC no where does it actually say " we recommend only 0-30"

Yes, different grades as per different climates and the recommended grade for our neck of the woods is 0w30 B)

For Jon G

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[Jon_G]

Yes, different grades as per different climates and the recommended grade for our neck of the woods is 0w30 B)

For Jon G

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Thanks Baz, but it's not just for me... I would only use 0w-30 and do my own servicing (so no garage to argue with). Is the scan from your owners manual?

 

[vile]

Guys look in your Honda manual and it should say that the preferred oil to use is 0w-30.Trust me guys i am 100% on this.

 

[Jon_G]

Guys look in your Honda manual and it should say that the preferred oil to use is 0w-30.Trust me guys i am 100% on this.

Maybe in yours, but not in the older manuals!

EDIT - but I can't be arsed to go out in the drizzle and get my manual in order to 'prove' this with a scan!

 

[vile]

This must be in the facelift Manuel then Jon because im sure i seen it when i had my 7th gen.

 

[Jon_G]

This must be in the facelift Manuel then Jon because im sure i seen it when i had my 7th gen.

You sir, have slapped me across the face with your glove... I demand satisfaction in the form of a duel. h34r:

But I'm still not getting off my comfy sofa to go outside - I'll try to find my pre-facelift OM and get a scan tomorrow...

 

[vile]

You sir, have slapped me across the face with your glove... I demand satisfaction in the form of a duel. h34r:

But I'm still not getting off my comfy sofa to go outside - I'll try to find my pre-facelift OM and get a scan tomorrow...

:lol:

 

[Salim]

Just to be absolutely clear, Honda do definetely recommend 0w30 for ultimate protection but also list 5w30 as compatible but we now know with the timing chain issue it ONLY should be 0w30 @ regular intervals.

 

[Jon_G]

Just to be absolutely clear, Honda do definetely recommend 0w30 for ultimate protection but also list 5w30 as compatible but we now know with the timing chain issue it ONLY should be 0w30 @ regular intervals.

Just a few posts back, Baz provided this scan to show Honda recommendations... http://i851.photobucket.com/albums/ab76/Bazg/OilBooklet2.jpg ...it doesn't mention 5w-30 as an option.

I can see why independent garages get confused and offer the cheaper stuff.

 

[rhinogolf]

Just a few posts back, Baz provided this scan to show Honda recommendations... http://i851.photobucket.com/albums/ab76/Bazg/OilBooklet2.jpg ...it doesn't mention 5w-30 as an option.

I can see why independent garages get confused and offer the cheaper stuff.

A main dealer put 5w-30 in my tourer on two occasions a few yrs ago went mad when found out they denied it even though it was on service sheet said technician had hit wrong button on keypad

 

[vile]

A main dealer put 5w-30 in my tourer on two occasions a few yrs ago went mad when found out they denied it even though it was on service sheet said technician had hit wrong button on keypad

I remember this Dave in a thread you put up before shocking indeed.

 

[freddofrog]

I was wondering whether to throw this into my Accord :lol: :lol:

Coopers Motor Oil did sponsor the March Engineering racing team in the mid-70's

That oil was good value at the time, SAE 30 no less, 86p for a 5 litre can. A gallon of petrol was about 75p

:


OMG .... http://www.catalogue-host.co.uk/chippenham/2008-11-01/lot_127

 

[entwisi]

OK, mine is pre facelift (2005 ) I'm on my work lappy so can't see the photobucket scan above

the owners manual ( now that I can be bothered to get it out states )

Always use a synthetic motor oil that meets the ACEA specification, and is the proper weight as shown in the following chart. When using Synthetic oil you must follow the oil and filter change intervals given in the maintenance schedule

It is highly recommended that you use any brand of 0W-30 synthetic motor oil meeting the minimum specification : ACEA B1

You can select the proper ACEA viscosity oil for your vehicle according to this chart

0-30 covers below 28 to above 33
0-40 covers the same
5-30 covers defined -25 to above 33
10-30 covers -20 to above 33

NOTE* Using oils other than those of preferred viscosity may adversely affect fuel consumption.

so it recommends it but offers options and only quotes increased fuel consumption as a side effect.