Menu
What's new
By:
Advanced search...

Poor Starting

A

Avro504

Members
Messages
6
Reaction score
0
Location
Shropshire
Car
05 ICTDI Tourer
Hi Guys I have got a little problem with my diesel that could be turning into a big one!
It’s a pre face lift motor with 108K on the clock of which I have put about 25K on all by myself. I have two symptoms that could be related but maybe not:

Symptom One: Occasionally when warming up (not cold not fully hot) I get little or no power below 2000 rpm, boot it up to the turbo cut in and it goes as normal below that and you can hardly pull away in 1st gear……most entertaining at junctions. It’s a fleeting fault that disappears after a couple of minutes and tends to happen mostly if the car has been on a long run previously (the day or even days) before.

Symptom Two: Since I have owned this car it very occasionally fails to start at the first pull on the starter, it fires then clatters to a stop. This has developed recently into an alarming two or three attempts to start at more regular intervals, strangely this normally occurs at filling stations and when hot but as from today not always.

Until recently I have just accepted symptom two as a quirk of the design but symptom one developed about 6 months ago and can be dangerous so some investigation work has been done…….ok there are probably some reading this thinking fuel filter but it’s a genuine article fitted less that 10K ago and I am well acquainted with the symptoms of fuel filter trouble from when I foolishly fitted a pattern part! Symptom two also pre-dates the new filter.
I have seen pictures of EGRs on the web looking like its had sausages fried in it so I took mine off its pretty damn clean for 100K plus and sealing well, the intake butterfly is also clean and works freely. Had a look at the MAF but not much to see….its clean and .....its a MAF. Thinking the lift pump could be faulty but with previous cars that’s been recovery time.
No warning lights are ***ociated with any of this so I am thinking of getting a code reader but not sure I would see anything worthwhile.

Any thoughts would be appreciated…..a fix even more so

Cheers
Bob
 
right Bob..so the car has had a genuine fuel filter put on it, the egr and maf is clean..any smoke?? It could be a anything bud, I see you live in Shropshire,try giving Honda Holdcroft a call and explain the situation to them, they are a brilliant bunch of guys, who are clued on and cant fault them..sorry can't be of any more help bud, :(
 
Bob a long shot but it could be injector problems.Try a good fuel additive like BG there is a thread on this In the 7th gen section.
How long has this been going on and where do you fill up with diesel.
 
Bob, if the fuel filter has been renewed recently with a genuine Honda item, then it's most likely a sticking EGR valve. I would have the filter changed first, if that doesn't fix it then we can close off the EGR valve as part of a software remap on your ECU. Details in my signature below although you will need 5 posts before you can see it.
 
Agree with possible egr fault, its very common on other cars.
 
Avro504 said:
Hi Guys I have got a little problem with my diesel that could be turning into a big one!
It’s a pre face lift motor with 108K on the clock of which I have put about 25K on all by myself. I have two symptoms that could be related but maybe not:

Symptom One: Occasionally when warming up (not cold not fully hot) I get little or no power below 2000 rpm, boot it up to the turbo cut in and it goes as normal below that and you can hardly pull away in 1st gear……most entertaining at junctions. It’s a fleeting fault that disappears after a couple of minutes and tends to happen mostly if the car has been on a long run previously (the day or even days) before.

Symptom Two: Since I have owned this car it very occasionally fails to start at the first pull on the starter, it fires then clatters to a stop. This has developed recently into an alarming two or three attempts to start at more regular intervals, strangely this normally occurs at filling stations and when hot but as from today not always.

Until recently I have just accepted symptom two as a quirk of the design but symptom one developed about 6 months ago and can be dangerous so some investigation work has been done…….ok there are probably some reading this thinking fuel filter but it’s a genuine article fitted less that 10K ago and I am well acquainted with the symptoms of fuel filter trouble from when I foolishly fitted a pattern part! Symptom two also pre-dates the new filter.
I have seen pictures of EGRs on the web looking like its had sausages fried in it so I took mine off its pretty damn clean for 100K plus and sealing well, the intake butterfly is also clean and works freely. Had a look at the MAF but not much to see….its clean and .....its a MAF. Thinking the lift pump could be faulty but with previous cars that’s been recovery time.
No warning lights are ***ociated with any of this so I am thinking of getting a code reader but not sure I would see anything worthwhile.

Any thoughts would be appreciated…..a fix even more so

Cheers
Bob
Click to expand...

In respect of symptom 1.

What happens to the engine when you try and start off at lower revs in 1st, does it stall or is there no pulling power ?
Does it happen on any other occasions?
Do you know whether the clutch has been replaced and if so when ?

It is worth getting a code reader, keep it in the car and next time it does it check for temporary codes, they need to happen a few times in succession to light up the MIL light, but if it is intermittent then it could be a reason why no particular fault is being recorded. Also not to teach you to suck eggs or anything, but make sure you write any codes, before clearing them.

The only reason I have mentioned the clutch above is that clutch slip in the Accord is quite unique and refined and is not always obvious, in the first instance it seems to come and go and then everything is fine again.

Are there any other peculiarities that you have maybe just put down as a quirk of the engine ?

In respect of symptom 2.

It really could be a number of things, however by the sounds of it fortunately / or unfortunately the error is more likely to reveal itself by illuminating the MIL light and you should get a clue in the code.

In addition to the EGR it could also be an issue with the fuel rail pressure switch.

Any further descriptions of what happens, might help a little.

Good luck
 
Thanks Guys
Carl, I don’t think the clutch has ever been replaced so may be on its last legs but no sign of it yet. What I am getting here is defiantly loss of power, let the clutch up and it just will not pull, no increase in revs just no power. Rev it up to 2K and slip in the clutch and we are off like the proverbial cat!
I have tried injector cleaner…..well its worth a go
I looked very carefully at the EGR when I had it off and it seals well and no sign of sticking…. the spring is pretty strong. Not sure exactly how or when it works but my understanding is that it only opens when fully hot and at cruising loads. If it was sticking I would expect the engine to run rough before hand and I am not seeing this. With both of these faults once they have cleared the engine runs smooth and reliably.
It could be the rail pressure switch, it sounds like a plausible cause.
I have been waiting for a MIL light but I have a feeling it’s going to just not start one day and leave me stranded :( .
I don’t see a lot of smoke out of this car but it leaves a visible trail when accelerating hard, always has done. Does an acceptable 45mpg average.
Looks like I may just have to wait and see what happens, I will let you know if anything does

If it becomes more predictable I will probably let Holdcroft have a look at it, no point in using the local bunch they have yet to impress

Cheers
Bob
 
Bob,

When starting off then the engine is not pulling until after 2k but neither are the revs climbing quickly (as in indicating a possible slipping clutch). Equally I ***ume the engine will not stall, I presume it is like trying to start in Second or third?

Have you checked that the IMRC valve is operating correcty i.e freely moving and not moving erratically when the engine is running ?

it is shown as B in the first picture on this post
intake manifold and EGR Cleaning

The IMRC controls mixture at lower revs etc so it maybe a candidate, there is also a known issue on the IMRC control solenoid which can cause hesitation etc, there are a few threads on the subject. You can unplug the solenoid and the car reverts to fail-safe settings, but without limp mode, however it does through up a mil light, so it will be better doing it after you have read for any historical codes etc and have the facility to clear the codes.

The EGR is electronically controlled so whilst it is not jammed etc, it could just not be operating.

If you haven't already I would check and clean the connections to the fuel rail pressure sensor and also check that all Vac lines are connected and not split as a first port of call.
 
Thanks Carl

Yes just like pulling away in the wrong gear.

When I had the EGR off I looked at the IMRC valve and agin it was pretty clean ..nothing like one in the photos! Moves freely and can be seen functioning on a cold start, I notice it moves in response to the extra load when the AC pump cuts in reducing as the engine warms up. The temp sensor was pretty cruddy so I cleaned that with some carb cleaner. I checked the solenoid and vac tubes but I will give the control solenoid disconnect a go once I can get my hands on a code reader, my mate reckons he has got one that should work so we shall see.

I did think after doing all the above work the engine ran better but we all know a car always goes better after it has just been washed ;)

Cheers
Bob
 
My IMRC valve was knackered and did lots of strange things with my car when pulling low down.

It was diagnosed and temporarily fixed by disconnecting the pipe at the bottom of it and plugging with a screw, the pipe that goes to the diaphram.

I still had other issues, but it solved the low down speed issue that I was having.

Might be worth trying
 
Avro504 said:
Hi Guys I have got a little problem with my diesel that could be turning into a big one!
It’s a pre face lift motor with 108K on the clock of which I have put about 25K on all by myself. I have two symptoms that could be related but maybe not:

Symptom One: Occasionally when warming up (not cold not fully hot) I get little or no power below 2000 rpm, boot it up to the turbo cut in and it goes as normal below that and you can hardly pull away in 1st gear……most entertaining at junctions. It’s a fleeting fault that disappears after a couple of minutes and tends to happen mostly if the car has been on a long run previously (the day or even days) before.

Symptom Two: Since I have owned this car it very occasionally fails to start at the first pull on the starter, it fires then clatters to a stop. This has developed recently into an alarming two or three attempts to start at more regular intervals, strangely this normally occurs at filling stations and when hot but as from today not always.

Until recently I have just accepted symptom two as a quirk of the design but symptom one developed about 6 months ago and can be dangerous so some investigation work has been done…….ok there are probably some reading this thinking fuel filter but it’s a genuine article fitted less that 10K ago and I am well acquainted with the symptoms of fuel filter trouble from when I foolishly fitted a pattern part! Symptom two also pre-dates the new filter.
I have seen pictures of EGRs on the web looking like its had sausages fried in it so I took mine off its pretty damn clean for 100K plus and sealing well, the intake butterfly is also clean and works freely. Had a look at the MAF but not much to see….its clean and .....its a MAF. Thinking the lift pump could be faulty but with previous cars that’s been recovery time.
No warning lights are ***ociated with any of this so I am thinking of getting a code reader but not sure I would see anything worthwhile.

Any thoughts would be appreciated…..a fix even more so

Cheers
Bob
Click to expand...


Bob,

In relation to symptom two have a look at this thread it may or may not ring some bells with yourself. Jon the OP has kindly reported back to update us all on the current situation.

Engine dies when warm
 
Thanks guys
Some good points to follow up on there......might even try a bottle of BG244, it's the kind of fix I could live with at the moment :D

Bob
 
Hi Bob,

I notice that Carl has referred you to my problem... I guess the big difference is that I was getting an ECU warning light because the fuel rail pressure was too high (code P0088). The rail doesn't have a simple switch - it's actually a sensor informing the ECU of the actual pressure within the rail (at the RH end of the rail as you look under the bonnet). If this sensor fails - or is disconnected - then this brings up a corresponding error code relating to the faulty sensor. If you also want to try a BG244 'quick fix' then I found eBay to be a cheap way of buying it. It still seems to be working for me!

I notice you are also in Shropshire. if you're in the Ludlow area, I could read any stored ECU error codes for you with my OBD2 reader (even if the MIL light is no longer lit the codes are usually stored and can be read out). This might be quite useful information.

Jon
 
Jon_G said:
Hi Bob,


I notice you are also in Shropshire. if you're in the Ludlow area, I could read any stored ECU error codes for you with my OBD2 reader (even if the MIL light is no longer lit the codes are usually stored and can be read out). This might be quite useful information.

Jon
Click to expand...


That's a vey fine offer Jon,

it's always nice to see a bit of nice goodwill between fellow members, it is much appreciated. :)


Thanks

Carl
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top