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Won't Start...

J

Jon_G

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Messages
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Location
Nr Ludlow, Shropshire
Car
2005 Tourer i-CTDi
Following on from my recent (and, I believe, resolved) problem - http://typeaccord.co.uk/forum/topic/8528-engine-dies-when-warm/ - I have another severe engine failure.

After standing unused for a couple of days, I tried to start it earlier today only for it to fire up, run for about a second (sounding like a bag of spanners) and die - the MIL came on and attempts at a restart failed. I read the DTC P1059 and cleared it off the ECU, but again it only ran for a brief instant before dying. The MIL came back on and the DTC P1059 is also back (so at least it's consistent). My OBD2 reader can only identify this code as 'undefined' and a search of this (and the Civic) websites gives no hits. The best I can find on Google is 'Fuel and Air Metering and Auxiliary Emission Controls' which isn't really specific enough.

Please help!

Jon
 
On the bulkhead you will find a squeezy bulb, give it a good squeezing until it becomes hard, then see if she runs. Also stick your nose down thereabouts see if you can smell diesel.
 
edgeoftime said:
On the bulkhead you will find a squeezy bulb, give it a good squeezing until it becomes hard, then see if she runs. Also stick your nose down thereabouts see if you can smell diesel.
Click to expand...

Hi John

I've just tried that and, for good measure, opened the bleed at the top of the fuel filter as well - nothing seems odd there and no stronger smell of diesel than usual. Same problem still exists.

I was kind of expecting suggestions that 'I should replace the fuel filter', but is there any reason you suggested priming as a possible problem? Do you know what the P1059 code relates to?

Thanks anyway for your interest and input,
Jon
 
Hey, you sure its not the P1509? Dont get me wrong just checking, Dan
 
gathor said:
Hey, you sure its not the P1509? Dont get me wrong just checking, Dan
Click to expand...

Hi Dan, I like the way you're thinking but it's definitely P1059 (because it seems such a rarely-encountered DTC I did check 3 times to make sure I hadn't got it wrong). I normally use this site for error codes that my reader doesn't define - http://www.permoveo.ltd.uk/tabid/122/OBD-Error-Code/P1644/Diagnostics/Honda/Default.aspx - but no result this time.

I remain hopeful that a member here can define error codes?

Jon
 
Heh ok mate, I think its time to call honda garage:) Very rare code indeed.
 
gathor said:
Heh ok mate, I think its time to call honda garage:) Very rare code indeed.
Click to expand...
...I refuse to give up this soon. Perhaps in a week or two, but not yet. And yes, it looks like a very rare code - I'm still searching internet forums for clues, but it appears to mean different things depending upon actual manufacturer (or I'm simply looking at wild guesses), but I will keep looking. Taking it to Honda could easily cost me more than the car is worth!

Someone, somewhere, must know what P1059 relates to on a iCTDi (other than Honda). Why do I always get the rare fault codes?

Jon
 
Haha, couse you are the CHOSEN ONE! Lead the way, brake your honda like no one ever broken it before :).
 
UPDATE:
I've been attempting to 'catch' the engine as it fires up briefly, but haven't managed to get it running for more than about 4 seconds. However, during this time - with the bonnet up and the sun at the right angle - there appears to be quite a lot of diesel smoke coming up between the bulkhead and the engine. I am aware that the exhaust manifold cracking is a common problem on high mileage examples like mine, but would this prevent the engine from starting at all? It was running fine a few days ago when I parked it up. Or could the turbo have cracked? Would that prevent it from starting?

Jon
 
If it's getting fuel, but still will not run then it's not getting air. I can deal with old fashioned diesels but these "electronic" jobs leave me cold. Take the air cleaner out and give it a go.
 
1509 is an Idle Air Control Valve failure on a Vauxhall, which could be creating a massive air leak in the engine, which could cause white smoke mentioned.

Suggest you check air valves on inlet side to see if you can see anything amiss (hose off etc).
You could try starting the engine while squirting some easy start into air cleaner, to see if this over fueling will overcome air leak and try and get engine started to help diagnosis

Hope it helps
 
Terry Vincent said:
1509 is an Idle Air Control Valve failure on a Vauxhall, which could be creating a massive air leak in the engine, which could cause white smoke mentioned.

Suggest you check air valves on inlet side to see if you can see anything amiss (hose off etc).
You could try starting the engine while squirting some easy start into air cleaner, to see if this over fueling will overcome air leak and try and get engine started to help diagnosis

Hope it helps
Click to expand...

Thanks Terry - I've spent hours looking on the internet and the problem with using 'manufacturer specific' codes (eg those in the format P1***) for other makes is that they're all different! For example...
Dodge P1059 = A/C Request Circ Low
BMW P1059 = Variable valve timing control motor, bank 2 -supply voltage low
Volvo P1059 = The throttle unit has requested that the warning lamp is lit

And the smoke isn't white, it looks like regular exhaust. But I have considered squirting easy start into the air cleaner box, I just don't have any at present. I'll be getting some tomorrow when I can get out.

I've checked all visible hoses and electrical connections under the top cover (removed).

Jon
 
gathor said:
Any news mate? Im watching this space, let us know. Dan
Click to expand...

No news Dan. I'm still hoping - with increasing desperation - that someone will tell me what DTC P1059 actually means. And whether a cracked exhaust manifold could prevent it from starting, although this seems very unlikely.

Thanks to all for the general advice, but I don't really want to dive in and do stuff in a random fashion, at least not yet. We had terrible rain here yesterday (I don't have a garage or carport) and I also had a flat battery, so I didn't do much to the car - although as it's stopped raining here today I might take out the air filter later and see if that helps, but I'll resist the urge to use easy-start.

Rather ironically, a replacement pollen filter and gearbox oil (genuine Honda MTF3, no less) ordered last week were delivered this morning. Maybe I'll be advertising these for sale soon?

It's very, very frustrating that the ECU appears to know what's wrong, and can actually tell me, but I can't understand what it's saying!!!!

Cheers,
Jon
 
Hi Mate

when was the last time your fuel filter was changed and was it a genuine Honda one used?
 
Shabz said:
Hi Mate

when was the last time your fuel filter was changed and was it a genuine Honda one used?
Click to expand...

Hi Shabz, I replaced the fuel filter about 3 months ago and have done about 1500 miles since. I actually used a genuine Bosch filter supplied by a Honda dealer (which I have subsequently discovered is available cheaper at Euro Car Parts - exactly the same part number)... I wondered when someone would ask!

Have you previously experienced fuel filter issues causing a P1059 error code?

For good measure, earlier today I replaced the air filter... this didn't help.

Thanks,
Jon
 
Jon, why don't you just phone your local dealer and ask what P1059 is? Failing that give Holdcroft a phone they're affiliated with TA and am sure they will help....
 
Gav said:
Jon, why don't you just phone your local dealer and ask what P1059 is? Failing that give Holdcroft a phone they're affiliated with TA and am sure they will help....
Click to expand...


FUEL RAIL PRESSURE CONTROL VALVE CIRCUIT SHORTED TO POWER
 
crespo said:
FUEL RAIL PRESSURE CONTROL VALVE CIRCUIT SHORTED TO POWER
Click to expand...

Hi Neil
Yes, earlier today I also found that same capitalised explanation @ http://www.micro-tronik.com/faultcodes/obdiifaultcode_p1059.html ...but the problem with this explanation is that my fuel rail pressure control valve is purely mechanical with no electrical connections, so it can't exactly be that. However, my earlier breakdown problem (linked at top of page 1) was, I believed, caused by a sticking diesel pump delivery pressure control valve (M-PROP valve?) which I managed to free off and therefore I shouldn't ignore the possibility that the current fault may be somehow related to this previous problem, so it does make sense for me to focus on this area in the absence of anyone being able to interpret the Honda-specific P1059 code. It's currently raining again, but when it eventually stops I'll disconnect firstly the M-PROP connector on the diesel pump, then the pressure sensor on the fuel rail to see if the reported DTC changes.

Thanks,
Jon
 
Gav said:
Jon, why don't you just phone your local dealer and ask what P1059 is? Failing that give Holdcroft a phone they're affiliated with TA and am sure they will help....
Click to expand...

... Yeah, wifey also suggested that - I suspect she doesn't like me borrowing her MR2 (not that I really enjoy driving it, being 6'2'' and of 'sturdy girth'). I've only just had to replace the leaking radiator and severely corroded front discs on that, so I'm not having much luck with cars at the moment.

I guess I was hopeful that - if I gave it enough time - someone here who has access to the relevant Honda (diesel) specific diagnostic codes would tell me exactly what the problem is. Maybe after the weekend I will take your advice, although I do feel that it's a bit cheeky!

Thanks,
Jon
 
UPDATE: It's now running fine, but I don't know why!

Yesterday evening I went round all the engine electrical connectors I could access, unplugging and inspecting for corrosion before reconnecting. To enable access I removed the entire air filter box, which also required me to remove the battery positive connection for clearance purposes. The only issues I found were that the MAF connector seemed a little loose on the end of it's cable, and a mouse had made a nest underneath the air filter box (but no sign of gnawed cables). This morning I finished off, replaced the air filter box and re-connected the battery - the engine then started at the first attempt and appears to run well. Shaking the MAF cable with the engine running has no effect, so I guess the individual leads inside the cable ***embly are making proper connections to their respective plug terminals. And, although I previously reported a worrying amount of exhaust smoke coming up between the bulkhead and the back of the engine while trying (and failing) to start the engine, I don't really see or smell significant exhaust fumes now in that area while at tickover.

So I don't know whether it's working because I have disturbed (and cured) a bad electrical connection OR somehow fixed an ECU problem by disconnecting the battery overnight OR something else, so I can't rely upon it to keep working!!! If I could interpret the P1059 code at least it might still tell me where the problem had been.

I have also posted a question regarding the P1059 DTC on the Civinfo site to see if anythere knows the meaning of P1059.

Jon
 
crespo said:
FUEL RAIL PRESSURE CONTROL VALVE CIRCUIT SHORTED TO POWER
Click to expand...

I've now also had this interpretation of the P1059 DTC quoted by a member of the CivInfo site, this time referencing actual Honda documentation. So - after additionally looking around various explanations of the common rail system, - it appears that this must be the reason for my current problem (and could well be linked to a P0088 DTC issue I had a few months ago). But I'm not sure where this electrical 'fuel rail pressure control valve' can be found (is it internal to the high pressure diesel pump?). I now believe that the mechanical pressure control valve on the LH end of the fuel rail is an overpressure relief valve.

Please can someone let me know where to find this "Fuel Rail Pressure Control Valve"

Thanks,
Jon
 
Jon_G said:
...recently, when I had the P0088 issues a few months ago. It was a Bosch one and I primed/bled it properly.

Jon
Click to expand...


Rules that out then.

Have you tried putting some injector cleaner through the tank.??
 
Jon_G said:
I've now also had this interpretation of the P1059 DTC quoted by a member of the CivInfo site, this time referencing actual Honda documentation. So - after additionally looking around various explanations of the common rail system, - it appears that this must be the reason for my current problem (and could well be linked to a P0088 DTC issue I had a few months ago). But I'm not sure where this electrical 'fuel rail pressure control valve' can be found (is it internal to the high pressure diesel pump?). I now believe that the mechanical pressure control valve on the LH end of the fuel rail is an overpressure relief valve.

Please can someone let me know where to find this "Fuel Rail Pressure Control Valve"

Thanks,
Jon
Click to expand...


It looks like this.

fuel-pressure-regulator.jpg


You can get after market adjustable kits if Honda prices are a bit on the high side.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEW-HONDA-CIVIC-PRELUDE-CRX-FUEL-PRESSURE-REGULATOR-KIT-/370267482633?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item5635a96a09
 
crespo said:
It looks like this.

fuel-pressure-regulator.jpg


You can get after market adjustable kits if Honda prices are a bit on the high side.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEW-HONDA-CIVIC-PRELUDE-CRX-FUEL-PRESSURE-REGULATOR-KIT-/370267482633?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item5635a96a09
Click to expand...

Hi Neil, thanks. But it doesn't look to have electrical connections, so I'm not sure how it would give a P1059 'FUEL RAIL PRESSURE CONTROL VALVE CIRCUIT SHORTED TO POWER' as you suggested previously? I'm unsure, but I think the part I'm looking for is electrically controlled by the ECU to set the diesel pump output pressure, and does this by pulse modulating the input feed to the pump (and may also be known as an M-Prop valve?) and I think it might be integral to the pump. Because I'm unsure I'd really like someone to confirm all this (or put me right) before I start pulling the engine sub-systems apart.

Jon
 
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