Menu
What's new
By:
Advanced search...

Idle problem, engine cutting out...

T

thunder2

Members
Messages
18
Reaction score
0
Location
Peterborough
Car
Honda Accord
2004 2.4 Accord, manual with LPG. The car drives lovely when going but when pulling up to lights or a T junction, the revs drop and the engine cuts out so it's a case of riding the clutch and keeping the engine going whilst I stab the brakes or use the handbrake.

So far, I've paid 4 garages to have a look and have been told it's the battery, ECU, O2 sensor and to get Honda to reset the computer, which they won't do, so no one can find the definitive problem, just come up with expensive things to try. ARGH!

The ABS lights are on now too but this idling problem was happening before that light was on so I'm not sure that's the problem.

I've changed the battery and the O2 sensor and the problem is still there. It doesn't matter if it runs on LPG or petrol, it still does it.

The ECU is an expensive part to swap out just in case that's the problem so any advice would be very much appreciated...
 
Try leaving the battery unplugged for a few hours. This should reset the ECU and might help :unsure: ? But I've never heard of the petrol's doing this before. What mileage is it on? Do you think it's something to do with the LPG conversion at all?

Regards the VSA have a look here. It's free to do and might solve your problem.
 
Could be the MAF sensor? It might respond to cleaning.

I ***ume the K24 has a throttle position sensor? If so, could be another suspect.

I'm also ***uming that the car has previously run well following its conversion to LPG?
 
Jon_G said:
I ***ume the K24 has a throttle position sensor? If so, could be another suspect.
Click to expand...

Ah! Good point man, this could well an avenue of enquiry.
 
Hi all,

Thank you for the advice.

The milesage is 140k and the LPG conversion was done a few years ago. The problem still occurs if the LPG is on or off so I don't think it's LPG related. Well, the LPG probably takes the revs down another 100rpm but if the revs were 750-800, that wouldn't be a problem, but when the revs go down to 200-300, the extra drops it down further and kills the engine.

I'll try the MAF sensor. Is it easy to get to? And the throttle position sensor (both of these sound like they could be possibilities).

ALL the garages have just plugged the Honda into a computer. I don't think anyone's actually looked at the engine yet, just read the codes (!)

I'll give it a go when I can, after some instruction from Youtube...
 
thunder2 said:
Hi all,

Thank you for the advice.

The milesage is 140k and the LPG conversion was done a few years ago. The problem still occurs if the LPG is on or off so I don't think it's LPG related. Well, the LPG probably takes the revs down another 100rpm but if the revs were 750-800, that wouldn't be a problem, but when the revs go down to 200-300, the extra drops it down further and kills the engine.

I'll try the MAF sensor. Is it easy to get to? And the throttle position sensor (both of these sound like they could be possibilities).

ALL the garages have just plugged the Honda into a computer. I don't think anyone's actually looked at the engine yet, just read the codes (!)

I'll give it a go when I can, after some instruction from Youtube...
Click to expand...

Well, this problem is still ongoing. I managed to get the abs light off by replacing the abs speed sensor but the car still has the small exclam and vsa lights on and still stalls in the morning. Checking the codes it says it's an 84-1 fault. Sensor logic failure.

I read in lots of places that the problem is with the EGR Valve, but the k24a4 engine doesn't have an EGR valve.

Can anyone help? I don't want to be driving a stalling car in the worsening weather...
 
Sensor logic failure means it needs a vsa neutralisation to be carried out. I can do this as part of a diagnostic and it takes about 20 mins for the whole health check.

You would need to bring the car to me though and i can't tell your location from my phone..
 
How does it run on lpg and does the engine management light come on when driving?
When were the plugs last changed?

I've owned an LPG car before so have a bit idea of how they work.
Although you are saying it stall on both petrol and lpg, have you tried resetting the ecu and then running on petrol only for a few days or more?
The reason I ask is if the lpg system is running a bit rich, the car ecu will try to compensate over time by leaning everything off, then when you switch to petrol the long term fuel trims will be miles out and it will be stalling on petrol.

You need to get it running right on petrol first, and then see if you still have a problem with the lpg system.
Also do you have the software for the lpg system to see the fuel trims on that, and when was the lpg system last serviced?
 
I have run the car on petrol for a few days and it still cuts out when cold so I don't think it's an lpg related fault. The plugs, air filter and coil pack have all been checked and they're fine. Would the VSA issue be related to the rough running and poor idle or do you think they're unrelated. The sort of started happening within a close time frame.

If I were going to bring the vehicle to you, where are you based?

Thank you for the responses so far.
 
It's exasperating. The exclam and vsa lights turned out to be red herrings as the ECU was reset and those lights have gone out now. However, it still conks out in the mornings when cold.

What is wrong with this crappy car??? I bought a Honda because it was supposed to be reliable. Argh.

I've now done compression checks, all OK, cleaned the throttle body, it doesn't have an EGR valve, changed plugs again. Changed the oil to the full specification. I'm spending bundles and it still won't play nicely in the morning. Sometimes you think it's settled down then you pull up to the lights and it stalls again and just like Delorean in Back To The Future it takes ages to start. By which time the lights have changed again and everyone behind you is fuming. Then you have to rev the knackers out of her to ensure it doesn't stall again.

There are loads of threads regarding poor idling accords and I think I've tried most things. Any more advice would be very much appreciated...
 
It's not a crappy car, just the fault got to me yesterday.

Spoke to the dealer who said the fuel filters on these get 'waxy' and allow moisture into the fuel, hence clogging up and affecting performance. They quoted about £100 to fix.

I have the car now booked into a local garage who's fitting a Bosch fuel filter on Monday for £57 all in so will keep my fingers crossed that this sorts it out.

Will report back here on how that progresses...

:huh:
 
Make sure it's OEM fuel filter right for your year of manufacture. These Diesels are very fussy over fuel filters.
 
:D

not sure why put a lpg onto it?

3litres+ yes please but for a 2.4 honda seems a bit ott.

how did that repair go ..
 
My bad :blush:
 
Eric - I actually like the idea of an LPG conversion for the 2.4. Pretty much the same level of performance but I guess the £ per mile running costs of the diesel... best of both worlds!

I suppose the problem will be when too many cars are converted to LPG and so The Treasury will need to claw back the lost funds and so will raise the fuel duty on LPG.
 
A couple guys here have LPG 2.4s. Seems a very sensible thing to do if it suits your needs and lifestyle.
 
how readily available is lpg? in Ireland its about as available as tickets to a gareth brooks gig.
 
There's a couple in my town. Motorway garages always have it, as do some of the bigger garages on major road network in cities I've noticed. It's not readily available, but like I said, if it fits with your driving patterns etc it's a very viable option for the 2.4.
 
I've ran an LPG car before and once you own one you realise just how many places you can refuel with lpg, including some calor gas outlets that don't sell normal fuel.

If the fuel filter doesn't fix it then I still think it is the long term fuel trims being too far out due to it not running quite right on lpg. I know you said you tried it for a couple of days on petrol, but it could take a couple of weeks depending on how many miles you are doing.
 
I got LPG on my 2.4 Type-S, the performance isnt too shabby but I commute up and down the mway to work mon-fri, so its just a case of cruising at 70-75 on the mway. VTEC works fine when i need it (i only get 1 or 2 chances to really give it some anyway) but i am getting at least 230 miles out of less than £30 LPG (with a CAI and cold weather my MPG has improved! who would have thought!). I cannot complain one bit, apart from the LPG fuel meter not being very accurate, but i have a LPG BP garage round the corner from my home and also work, so it has worked out well for me. Diesel economy without the diesel problems, costs or chugging noise and black puffs of smoke! :p

Sorry, but I dont really have any idle problems. What i did notice the other day was my flashlube hadn't gone down much since i last topped it up and when i wiggled the tube, it caused the engine to change its tone and revs to drop! After inspecting the tube which connects the flashtube to the inlet, (***uming you have it installed) had developed cracks and was causing an air leak! I sealed this up with gaffa tape for now and when i wiggle it no more fluctuations in revs. Might be worth checking that, as this is the only rubber hose in my setup which can deteriorate, the others are big chunky fuel hose type hoses?
 
Jonny5, thanks for that flashlube comment. I'll look into it. I took the Accord into the garage today which calls itself a Honda specialist but after doing things for 40 minutes, the manager came to tell me the fuel filter must be in the fuel tank because they can't find it anywhere. I tell him it is and, being Honda specialists, I thought they'd have known that. They're calling me back tomorrow. More info when it's forthcoming...
 
Is it only stalling when the engine is cold or does it also happen when fully warmed up?
Have you had the lpg system serviced by someone who knows what they are doing with lpg?
Have you got the software for your lpg system so you can see what it is actually doing?

Answering these might help narrow the fault down, I have a feeling of what it could be but need more answers first.
 
Hi Dave G. It stalls when running cold, before the LPG kicks in. Also, I have ran it on petrol for a few days and again she will stall when cold. The lpg system is a BRG system. I'm trying to get it running right on petrol first as the problem occurs before the lpg is introduced. What do you think it could be?
 
Have just had a call from the Honda specialists (!) who say the fuel filter doesn't need replacing, it's a lifetime part. So, how comes the dealer says they'll replace it for £100???

I'll see if anyone else can do it, if not it'll have to go to the dealers. Not only does it cost more but it's at least a week before I can get it booked in.

More info soon...
 
We talking petrol fuel filter? Um... yes! This is a serviceable part. Not every service, but it is replaced at certain intervals.
 
Had a look here, is it in the tank in the 7th Gen?

http://www.lingshondaparts.com/honda_car_parts_selection_pfk.php?block_01=17SEA01&block_02=B__0300&block_03=2855
B__0300.jpg



1

PFKL317230

STRAINER SET, FUEL


12


PFKL365719

FILTER COMP., FUEL PUMP


Do you have an Idle Air Control Valve on the 7th Gen?

You mentioned earlier about the RPM being at 200-300 minus 100 for LPG - does this sound correct guys? Seems a bit low eh?
 
thunder2 said:
Hi Dave G. It stalls when running cold, before the LPG kicks in. Also, I have ran it on petrol for a few days and again she will stall when cold. The lpg system is a BRG system. I'm trying to get it running right on petrol first as the problem occurs before the lpg is introduced. What do you think it could be?
Click to expand...
Yes you do want to get it running right on petrol, but it is probably the lpg system that is causing it to run badly on petrol.
The fact that the idle is low on lpg is also an indication that all is not right.
Have you ever had the lpg filters changed and a tune up done?

The car has a long term fuel trim and a short term fuel trim which are stored/controlled by the ecu.
If the mixture is wrong when running on lpg the long term fuel trim will eventually get to its end stop trying to give the engine max enrichment (if it is lean on lpg).

When you start the car from cold, it will ignore the O2 sensors until it warms up enough and just use the long term fuel trims to give it a base setting for fuelling. If these are miles out for running on petrol due to the wrong mixture on lpg you will get the cutting out and symptoms you describe.

To prove or disprove this, you need to either find a way of resetting the ecu or run just on petrol for a few weeks not just a couple of days.

I'm also ***uming that your O2 sensors are working and the ECU light has been disabled in any way by the lpg system.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top