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Littlebo/UKCL9 CL9/CM2 - K24 Reflash/Remap Test ECU


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#1 Stevearcade

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Posted 14 June 2014 - 07:08 PM

Hi guys,

 

Yesterday I took delivery of the Test ECU courtesy of UKCL9. It was very well packaged and had been sent recorded delivery. Today, I was not working, but I drove to work, as I know this journey inside and out. I wanted to cleanse my driving palette and be as objective as possible. So I drove to work with the normal ECU. When I got to work, I installed the reflashed ECU. Then drove home. I then drove back to work again with the reflashed ECU and once at work, refitted my normal ECU and drove home. This meant I was on a mixture of high speed A roads, country lanes and busy town driving. I did both directions with both original and reflashed ECU. In fact I bookended the reflashed ECU with the stock one for maximum clarity, objectivity and to ensure there was no placebo effects.

 

I haven't spent a penny on this, I have nothing invested in it. This is an impartial and objective user review based on approximately 30 miles stock vs the same 30 miles reflashed.

 

Low Revs, low gears, busy town traffic, crawling around:

 

Car feels very similar to stock, but a little bit smoother with gear changes. I suffered less of the jerkiness that I sometimes get, although this is very circumstantial. Basically, below 2K I didn't notice a great deal of difference, but it was slightly smoother.

 

Above 2K RPM:

 

Car is more lively with reflash. It feels like it wants to take off more. It's nice, but requires a little getting used to. It's basically goading you to put your foot down and you need to exercise a little discipline. It zips through the Revs quicker than stock ECU, feels much more torquey.

 

VTEC (4.5K RPM)

 

This again, takes a little getting used to. The VTEC transition is extremely smooth, no kick as such, just a notable change in engine tone and you're very aware that you're rising through the revs and moving at quite some speed. Remaining in VTEC with gear shifts is very good. Makes the car feel much more ballsy and nothing was keeping up with me. The new Red Line of 7500 or 7800, whatever it is, is a little scary. It goes against your instinct to see the rev counter going deep into the red and the noise is insane. But I'm fairly confident from what I've read on Hondata that taking the revs this high is still safe.

 

General Operations

 

VSA can still be disabled, cruise control works fine, there were no fault codes on the ECU according to my bluetooth OBD reader and the Torque App on my phone. Torque App was indicating a minute MPG improvement on the Reflash, but this is circumstantial I believe and the difference wasn't noticeable enough to warrant any discussion really. At least, with how I was testing the high revs... But my next point could point towards long term gentle driving seeing a positive return in MPG perhaps?

 

General, Gentle Driving & Cruising:

 

The noticeable factor here is that you don't need to row the gears so much, I imagine due to the improved torque. Where I would sometimes have dropped a gear and upped the revs to pick up pace (e.g. going up hill), I can, with the reflashed ECU, just apply a little more throttle and there's sufficient torque there to pick up and pull, no downshifting required. I found I was leaving the car in high gears at low speeds for longer. More relaxing driving.

 

To Sum Up

 

I like it. I think there's a notable difference in drive quality. It's not rip your face off different, it's actually more sophisticated than that (until your into the depths of VTEC, then it really does rip your face off). The increase in torque in the lower rev range is nice to have and I think is probably the best thing about this map as it's ironed out the dull spots in the area where the engine spends most of its life. And as mentioned above, it's more rev-happy and lively too which makes it feel like a more engaging and enjoyable drive.

 

VTEC coming in earlier, meaning the VTEC window is larger and remains engaged during gear change is obviously a good thing for not losing momentum in overtaking scenarios and things. Takes a little getting used to though. My car feels/sounds like a bit of an animal at high revs now, what with the CAI and Stainless Exhaust, and even at naughty speeds, is eager to pull more :blink: .

 

I'm going to do a little more driving with it tomorrow to see if I notice anything else worth mentioning.

 

---

 

This review is my own personal experience and NOT an official endorsement by Type Accord.

 

There has been some heated discussion of late about the credibility of the claims made by those selling this map and the newness of members posting reviews. All I can say is, in my humble opinion (which I know for some, doesn't count for much) the car feels better with the reflashed ECU and it has done to the driving experience what was claimed it would. It is definitely not a placebo.

 

If you wish to contribute to this thread, ask questions or discuss things, please do. But, given the recent heated discussion in other threads, I won't tolerate any silliness of any sort in this thread. This is my review thread, not Littlebo/UKCL9's Reflash Thread Part 2. I trust we're all clear on this. Please keep things clean and keep personal snipes out of it. I won't be posting polite reminders if the mud flinging starts.


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#2 vtistu

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Posted 14 June 2014 - 07:27 PM

Thank you for your honest review.
As I have had this remap I was keen to put my review up for UKCL9 as I was so happy with it.

 

For me, the best part is changing gear and still being in the power band.

 

Unfortunately how the last thread ended up is why I don't use forums anymore, I lurk. Hense my low post count. Doesn't mean to say I don't know what's going on.

And a few years ago I had a high input into a forum, organising track days, rolling road days, karting days and shows.  So I'm not an internet forum noob.


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#3 Stevearcade

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Posted 14 June 2014 - 07:49 PM

Cheers Stuart. How many miles have you roughly covered since getting the map? Have you noticed or experienced any issues at all?


My CM2 - Cold Air Intake with K&N Filter, Custom 2.5" Stainless Steel Exhaust, Reflashed ECU, Custom Made 8J Steelies from Extreme Offset, BC Racing Coilovers, Short Shifter, Type-R Gear Knob, XCarLink iPod Interface, Interior & Exterior LED Bulb Conversion, Wind Deflectors, Yellow Fog Lamps, JDM size plates, Type S Grill (with blacked out chrome), Front & Rear Type S Skirts.


#4 ukcl9

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Posted 14 June 2014 - 07:50 PM

thanks for your honest review.just reading this thread has put a smile on my face.the reflash realy opens up the k24.im glad your both enjoying the reflash as much as i am
k20/k24 reflasher.Test ECU available.Click on the reflash thread
http://typeaccord.co...remap-test-ecu/

#5 TypeR

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Posted 14 June 2014 - 08:15 PM

Nice review Steve. So would this new ECU interfere with MOT emissions at all?


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#6 Stevearcade

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Posted 14 June 2014 - 08:30 PM

That's a very good point Shabz. As far as I'm aware no one yet in this country running this map has had their MOT. Maybe UKCL9, as the UK rep might soon pop down to see his local MOT place and get them to just do an emissions test to see if the reflashed ECU passes or not? I doubt it would cost much money and would put potential customers at ease.

 

That said, I believe the MOT Emissions test in Germany  is similar and there are a number of people running this map in Germany without issue. Hopefully Littlebo or UKCL9 will see this soon and clarify the MOT situation.


My CM2 - Cold Air Intake with K&N Filter, Custom 2.5" Stainless Steel Exhaust, Reflashed ECU, Custom Made 8J Steelies from Extreme Offset, BC Racing Coilovers, Short Shifter, Type-R Gear Knob, XCarLink iPod Interface, Interior & Exterior LED Bulb Conversion, Wind Deflectors, Yellow Fog Lamps, JDM size plates, Type S Grill (with blacked out chrome), Front & Rear Type S Skirts.


#7 littlebo

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Posted 14 June 2014 - 08:36 PM

vtistu,  ill be happy to hear your opinion , here or in PM.  

 

Steve,  all modes, all scenarios, transitions, entire map been covered and reworked so its a brew for every1.   im shure all the ppl can  find something useful for em.  

 

city  crawlers and gas savers  will see economy and low end torque you mentioned  (  btw, every1 feel it but no1 see it on the dyno graph b4 3500rpms, which is odd !! )     Please let us know if  your "less jerkiness" for low revs is  about 2nd gear pull at  low rpms like 1-1.5k. I stated that you dont need to engage 1st gear to pass sharp turns or interferences like rails or lying policemans like with stock map,  2nd gear can pull without twitching in that area. 

 

active drivers will see their own benefits as biggest gains are mid to top,  yeah,  its i4 and u need to rev it a lil to see what Honda engine is ...   

 

one more special thing id like to ask you about  - pedal feeling.  do you feel it more responsive, more direct, more predictable and less spongy ?  Its very important for me as this took almost 3 months of time to work out dbw map and this feature been sniped really hard with sceptics. 

 

Im asking all reflashed guys to let us know if you see any side effects of reflash and do you see any fuel economy with it ?   Please dont mention engine sound been changed as a flaw,  its due to cam phasing been changed and sound changed also . its more low and deep  now.

 

Thanks.


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#8 ukcl9

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Posted 14 June 2014 - 08:40 PM

reflash will NOT effect MOT Emissions test.
k20/k24 reflasher.Test ECU available.Click on the reflash thread
http://typeaccord.co...remap-test-ecu/

#9 littlebo

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Posted 14 June 2014 - 08:41 PM

Nice review Steve. So would this new ECU interfere with MOT emissions at all?

 

I can confirm that 3 of my German customers passed emissions tests with reflash. They all are rocking on petrol.   Any person whos running LPG can pass emissions even without catalytic converter ,  so since ukcl9 is an LPG guy - he isnt a best emissions passing  example here


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#10 Stevearcade

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Posted 14 June 2014 - 08:54 PM

Littlebo, yes. The pedal is sharper I forgot to mention. You sum it up nicely actually with the "more predictable" comment. Obviously when you drive the same car for 5 years, you know what it's going to do and so know what to expect, even if you're expecting lag. But there's a tighter, more instant feel to it with the reflashed ECU.

 

I've just done some googling. It would appear emission standards are a European Directive of sorts and the same regulations apply across EU member states. Therefore our MOT emission standards should be the same as those in Germany. You're right, as UKCL9 runs LPG, his emissions will pass even with a decat  :rolleyes: .


My CM2 - Cold Air Intake with K&N Filter, Custom 2.5" Stainless Steel Exhaust, Reflashed ECU, Custom Made 8J Steelies from Extreme Offset, BC Racing Coilovers, Short Shifter, Type-R Gear Knob, XCarLink iPod Interface, Interior & Exterior LED Bulb Conversion, Wind Deflectors, Yellow Fog Lamps, JDM size plates, Type S Grill (with blacked out chrome), Front & Rear Type S Skirts.


#11 F6HAD

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Posted 14 June 2014 - 09:19 PM

Nice review Steve.

I doubt there will be any issues with mot and
I for one am happy to allow TA to support someone who has a working solution for these older K24 lumps.
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#12 littlebo

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Posted 14 June 2014 - 09:46 PM

K24 is a great engine, probably best Honda ever made for masses,   hope to catch someone with CU2  too !  


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#13 vtistu

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Posted 14 June 2014 - 10:52 PM

Cheers Stuart. How many miles have you roughly covered since getting the map? Have you noticed or experienced any issues at all?


I think about 4000 miles. Mixture or everything, town mainly, A&B and a little motorway.

No issues, still fun like the day it was done.

#14 littlebo

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Posted 14 June 2014 - 10:56 PM

Stuart,  as far as you get back to regular driving ,  do you see any MPG improvements ?   I stated that reflash pays for itself,  tell us if its so  =) 


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#15 vtistu

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Posted 14 June 2014 - 11:03 PM

My driving is never normal.
Average for town is 28-32, motorway is 35-38
Same as before really but it's very hard to make a comparison.

#16 littlebo

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Posted 14 June 2014 - 11:11 PM

Got it.   Need to get someone with facelift and trip computer to compare avg,   tank measurements on pfl cars are more precise but also more boring...


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#17 F6HAD

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Posted 15 June 2014 - 10:40 AM

Mpg gains on a petrol car are normally not the case and any made are normally negligible. I would be careful about making claims in this regard.

If someone wants to tune their K20 or K24 do it for the performance benefits.
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#18 littlebo

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Posted 15 June 2014 - 10:50 AM

Sure , reflash been made with performance on 1st place in mind.  But fuel economy popped up also, as side effect.  Once less revs needed for same performance and open loop maps been leaned for optimal AFR ive been reported with avg consumption drop of  0.5-0.6 L for MT  and around 0.8-0.9 for AT.  Same for LPG.   Hope to see same result here.   Im not making claims on a flat place,  they are based on users experience.   When i tuned the car i never paid attention to mpg ) 


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#19 F6HAD

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Posted 15 June 2014 - 11:35 AM

Yep totally understand that and you're correct. As tuners we know this but the average customer doesn't always understand and in many cases they expect to drive harder and make mpg gains which is impossible
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#20 ToothlessDrunk

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Posted 15 June 2014 - 02:44 PM

So , is this map worth £300 quid , if I spent £300 would I feeel it was money well spent or will I wish I had only spent £200 .