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#1 freddofrog

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Posted 29 March 2017 - 09:27 AM

As this will become a factor as cars age, I thought I'd start a discussion on the shields behind brake discs.
 
  • do people worry if the shields are becoming loose
  • do people pull the shields off when they become loose or do they replace them
  • do people remove the shields anyway to stop stones getting caught between the shield and disc
  • why are the shields there in the first place
 
 

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#2 Mr Honda

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Posted 29 March 2017 - 10:22 AM

Won't worry about it until the NCT (your MOT) picks up on it. As you say, they are shields so hopefully will stop road filth, mud, water, oils getting in and potentially causing some sort of brake deterioration when they're needed most. A deterrent moreso than a fix....



#3 Jon_G

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Posted 29 March 2017 - 10:55 AM

I've obviously not done a formal survey, but apparently many cars (including Vauxhall) don't have these shields anymore.

The front ones fell off my Toyota a few years ago and this hasn't even attracted an MoT advisory... Neither can I see any additional corrosion or wear as a result.

I'm inclined to suggest it's nothing to worry about, but does beg the question as to why car manufacturers bothered to fit them in the first place... they wouldn't waste money on something that didn't add perceived valued.

#4 Stevearcade

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Posted 29 March 2017 - 10:56 AM

Perhaps they help prevent little stones getting caught in the calliper and making awful noises until they fall out again?


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#5 Jon_G

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Posted 29 March 2017 - 11:17 AM

Perhaps they help prevent little stones getting caught in the calliper and making awful noises until they fall out again?


It's the shield that traps the stones, although I've never had that happen.

#6 freddofrog

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Posted 29 March 2017 - 11:38 AM

It happens all the time on my car, local council just lay stones onto the roads around here all the time, get the screeching on the front or the back. There was even one that was so stubborn that I had to jack up the car, remove the wheel, bend the shield back (further away from the disc) and a small pebble fell out.

 

If they are supposed to stop stones, they don't, and if they're supposed to stop mud getting to calipers, they don't (otherwise the pads in the rear calipers on these cars wouldn't need to be freed up every 6 months), and if they're supposed to stop water getting to the calipers then maybe the shield should be removed to let more water get there to clean out the pads in the calipers  B)

 

As Jon says, some cars come without them fitted, either on the front, or altogether.

 

"Splash shield" sounds a daft name, are these brake designers worried about driving through a big puddle  :lol:

Maybe they fit them to deliberately to increase sales of pads and discs ?


Edited by freddofrog, 29 March 2017 - 11:41 AM.

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#7 Stevearcade

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Posted 29 March 2017 - 12:10 PM

I've had several instances of grit getting in the brakes and squealing like crazy!

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#8 Jon_G

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Posted 29 March 2017 - 12:17 PM

Maybe the shields stop water being driven onto a hot disc when driving through deep water, which could cause them to warp?

Edited by Jon_G, 29 March 2017 - 12:17 PM.


#9 freddofrog

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Posted 29 March 2017 - 12:43 PM

It depends how deep the water is, because if the water itself is deep enough to come up to the shield, then the water will come directly into contact anyway.

 

However, if the water is shallow (a puddle) then the the shield would help to reduce a "splash" of water getting onto part of the disc, but I can't see that a single splash would contain enough thermal capacity to warp a disc. If there are multiple puddles then maybe, but to get multiple puddles there would have to be rain, and so there would be spray, so there would already be a "mist" around the disc.

 

If there is a good engineering reason, then it's probably been lost in the mist of time (pun intended). AFAIK these splash shields date back to when disc brakes were first fitted to road cars, but not on all of the cars. IIRC the Daimler SP250 and the Jaguar XK150 were roadster sports cars that both came out in the late 1950's with 4 wheel disc brakes, and I think that the Daimler SP250 did not have shields fitted but the Jag did (?)


Edited by freddofrog, 29 March 2017 - 12:54 PM.

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#10 Jon_G

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Posted 29 March 2017 - 12:53 PM

Do motorbikes have disc shields?

#11 freddofrog

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Posted 29 March 2017 - 12:58 PM

Now there's a damned good point, the discs on early motorbikes would have been thinner and more prone to warping, so if those don't require shields then one has to wonder what maniacal fool would want them fitted on a car. Maybe it was marketing who came up with the idea  :lol:


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#12 Goodluckmonkey

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Posted 29 March 2017 - 01:06 PM

The discs on earlier bikes were huge thick things. I have a '78 gs750 and the discs are approx 9mm thick.

A modern disc is half the thickness.

The only time they've ever had covered discs was for aesthetics.

FWIW, I ground the spot weld off the o/s/r disc splash guard on my tourer and chucked it. MOT guy wasn't fussed.
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#13 freddofrog

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Posted 29 March 2017 - 01:17 PM

That is very interesting, i am tempted to take them off both rears on my Tourer just because they are daft.


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#14 Goodluckmonkey

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Posted 29 March 2017 - 01:22 PM

They do have a lip on them that corresponds with a groove in the disc - prevents crud getting to the drum assembly.

Removed that one of mine because they rust behind the disc then have a little squeal and drone.
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#15 Cliffordski

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Posted 29 March 2017 - 03:08 PM

One of mine came off recently.

 

Thanks to your goodself I now know it's definitely not an MOT fail, despite being informed otherwise on another forum. I checked with my local Honda main dealer, who does my MOTs, and they confirmed this.

 

In the couple of weeks or so it's been off I've driven in different conditions, including wet/muddy, and noticed no difference whatsoever.

 

Replacing these on the Tourer looks an unappealing job, so I'm very happy not to have to do it.


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#16 Goodluckmonkey

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Posted 29 March 2017 - 03:25 PM

They're spot welded to the hub carrier. Don't even know if replacement's an option?
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#17 Mr Honda

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Posted 29 March 2017 - 03:46 PM

The tourer has a rear drum system, so don't think that removing them is quite so easy. The fronts are removable.


Edited by Mr Honda, 29 March 2017 - 03:46 PM.


#18 Goodluckmonkey

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Posted 29 March 2017 - 03:58 PM

The fronts are probably worse. The hub's in the way, so you'd need to press the hub out the bearing to get them off, unless you cut them off, and then you don't have room to swing an angle grinder.

On the rears you just pull the brake disc off and grind off the spot welds.

Edit - on a 7th Gen tourer anyway.

Edited by Goodluckmonkey, 29 March 2017 - 04:14 PM.

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Avg Consumption currently @ 44.5mpg

#19 freddofrog

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Posted 29 March 2017 - 04:22 PM

^what he said 

 

this is the diagram of the parking brake shoes on Lings, it shows the backing plate with the shield as one part, the red circle (drawn by my niece's son aged 5) shows the division between the plate and the shield

 

CM2_rear_parking_shoes.jpg
 
but in reality the shield is just spot welded and those give way over time, as is starting to happen in the pic below
 
CM2_rear_photo.jpg

Edited by freddofrog, 29 March 2017 - 04:27 PM.

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#20 freddofrog

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Posted 29 March 2017 - 04:49 PM

 despite being informed otherwise on another forum. 

 

I can just imagine some maniacal nincompoop conflating issues so that white appears black.


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