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jerking

Just an update on fitting the new filter the car was 70% better.Carl as you said i have the same symptoms when i drive the car for the 1st time its ok.Then if i drive it again after say 20 min that's when the jerking starts.
Im thinking to myself is it all these sensors that are faulty or could it be just a mechanical fault.My gut instinct is still fuel related or something simple like a sticky throttle.Or could these cars just suffer bad turbo lag.
Thinking about it i brought the car on 12k and before the car was mapped i had the same symptoms but not as much/ so the map has not caused the problem just made it more noticeable.
 
brett said:
Just an update on fitting the new filter the car was 70% better.Carl as you said i have the same symptoms when i drive the car for the 1st time its ok.Then if i drive it again after say 20 min that's when the jerking starts.
Im thinking to myself is it all these sensors that are faulty or could it be just a mechanical fault.My gut instinct is still fuel related or something simple like a sticky throttle.Or could these cars just suffer bad turbo lag.
Thinking about it i brought the car on 12k and before the car was mapped i had the same symptoms but not as much/ so the map has not caused the problem just made it more noticeable.
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I agree the remap has only highlighted it, I didn't have any jerking before, but on some days the car didn't feel as eager as other days (looking back I suspect that was the IMRC Solenoid, but the stock map hid it well)

As said previously after replacing the IMRC solenoid, things were noticeably better, apart from 2 tiny jerks just as it started to register on the temp gauge, but then it was fine. I got rid of this little annoyance for a little while by cleaning the MAF, MAP and IMRC Valve and the car ran like a dream, I was pre-empting the judder but it just didn't come.
Finally it started again so I re-cleaned the MAF, and reset the ECU, it would go for approx 100 miles then come back, so I put that down to the operating ranges being wider whilst the ECU re-learns. I would say though that it drove OK , no judders but just wasn't in the dream department!.
I then re-cleaned the MAP and did a more thorough job on the temp sensor part, again the car was driving much better, but it didn't take as long for the judder to return and seems to be a little more frequent.

This morning it drove fine after re-connecting the MAP sensor yesterday, although the Mrs noticed some jerking last night when she used the car.

I'm going to Costco in a moment, which is just up the road, but the sort of journey when the jerking will start when you start it for the second time, so see what happens.

In relation to whether it is just a mechanical fault or bad turbo lag, the only thing against this is that I have had the car running well post re-map and not everyone is complaining of this issue, although equally there are quite a few suffering with the issue.
Another thing is it does seem to be emphasised by the weather, wet days especially, on nice crisp cold days it runs fine, but this recent mildness (last day or so) it has happened more.

The sticky throttle is an interesting one as the TPS sensor has been mentioned on a few Hondatech sites concerning Acura, however against this in my case is sometimes don't get much of an issue.

in relation to changing just the filter on the IMRC solenoid, I noticed too that most of the issue had gone, certainly was not as violent etc.
 
So do you think that you will get the pattern part then Carl until the bosch part arrives in the country?

I have done pretty much all you said as well. Good luck mate
 
NESH said:
So do you think that you will get the pattern part then Carl until the bosch part arrives in the country?

I have done pretty much all you said as well. Good luck mate
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Currently searching to see if I can source the Bosch part from somewhere else.

Car was ok today, apart from a few little judders after leaving costco. (second journey after a short run), interesting that it was a reasonable day, weather wise.

I asked the supplier when in March they are likely to arrive and I am just waiting for hem to get back to me.

I need the car literally every day so if it becomes too much I'll go for the after market as a temporary measure, but if I can hold off and maybe keep cleaning or resetting the ECU until March I'll try and wait for the Bosch.
 
It does have a throttle position sensor though which is mentioned above, but I doubt it is that as my foot isnt moving a milimeter when it jerks.

But once I have saved a few pennies after Christmas, mine will be off to HH to see what they can do!
 
NESH said:
It does have a throttle position sensor though which is mentioned above, but I doubt it is that as my foot isnt moving a milimeter when it jerks.

But once I have saved a few pennies after Christmas, mine will be off to HH to see what they can do!
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Nick do you mean what Nuno mentioned on this thread:

http://typeaccord.co.uk/forum/topic/1202-my-experience-with-jerkiness-at-low-revs-diesel/page__p__13606__fromsearch__1#entry13606

I've got the scanner now from Elite, excellent, however technically it's a Christmas present (the only way I could keep the peace! ) so I suspect I'll have to wait a while longer to use it (hmm depends on whether it gets wrapped up before weekend)

Today the car ran fine and all I have done is re-connect the MAP sensor after running it in safe mode, not reset the ECU or anything.
 
NESH said:
It does have a throttle position sensor though which is mentioned above, but I doubt it is that as my foot isnt moving a milimeter when it jerks.
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In my experience TPS's are normally just variable resistors, if it was starting to play up then the ECU could be seeing a variable reading even when your foot isn't moving (just a thought).
 
CJM said:
Nick do you mean what Nuno mentioned on this thread:http://typeaccord.co.uk/forum/topic/1202-my-experience-with-jerkiness-at-low-revs-diesel/page__p__13606__fromsearch__1#entry13606I've got the scanner now from Elite, excellent, however technically it's a Christmas present (the only way I could keep the peace! ) so I suspect I'll have to wait a while longer to use it (hmm depends on whether it gets wrapped up before weekend) Today the car ran fine and all I have done is re-connect the MAP sensor after running it in safe mode, not reset the ECU or anything.
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Yes, thats waht I was talking about Carl. I have ran through Nuno's cleaning advice which hasnt made any difference :unsure:

delbert said:
In my experience TPS's are normally just variable resistors, if it was starting to play up then the ECU could be seeing a variable reading even when your foot isn't moving (just a thought).
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Yes, from what I have read, I believe that you are right.

I do now have a code reader and some software, but cant say that I have managed to configure it all yet, but my car shows no faults which is annoying, so no codes to decipher! :(
 
NESH said:
Yes, thats waht I was talking about Carl. I have ran through Nuno's cleaning advice which hasnt made any difference :unsure:


Yes, from what I have read, I believe that you are right.

I do now have a code reader and some software, but cant say that I have managed to configure it all yet, but my car shows no faults which is annoying, so no codes to decipher! :(
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What code reader have you gone for and does it do live data?
 
I borrowed it off a mate, it has some software and can read live data, but its a case of understaning it all. It also has the facility to log data, but I am not sure what I am doing, thats why it will probably end up being a trip to HH in the new year.

Well I say borrowed, he doenst need it anymore so he gave it me. But its jut a link where you can run potentailly any software
 
Just an update guys on the jerking problem.Ok in a previous post i was sure it may be throttle related or as nunno said the peddle sensor.
Today i done some experiments when driving.The normal thing jerking at 1.5-2.0 revs at low speed.
This only happens when slight pressure is applied to the peddle and i was able to hold the jerking for a couple of seconds.My conclusion was maybe its peddle related as the jerking does this when changing gear if you no what i mean.
Also if you drive heavy footed on the peddle it doesn't jerk .Im going to have a look tomorrow if there is a small amount of play in the cable and see if there is any adjustment.I will keep you posted i may be completely wrong but its worth a look.
 
Think you maybe wrong Brett, but worth a try like you said. I find that when I reset the ECU (either fuse out or battery disconnected) the jerking disappears for the first 60-100 miles then starts to come back progressively getting worse and then stays about the same from around 500 miles. I have tried this about 5 times now and every time its the same.

Very annoying, butt the next step for me is to go back to standard map and then then a visit to Honda.
 
Just an update OK i took the cover off the throttle adjustment area.It is right hand side and right at the back of the car.
Looking at the cable there was about 4mm of play so i tightened the play up but not to much.
The verdict was the peddle was a lot more responsive and its early days but no jerking.
Also guys i didn't disconnected the ECU so ill give it a week or so and see how it goes on.
If it comes back im thinking could it be the sensor or what ever it is plugging into the throttle adjustment area.
 
Well Nick you were right mate the jerking is still there.But its another thing to cross of the list.
Im thinking if you can replace the censor thing by the adjustment area.Im probably barking up the tree but it might be a case of process of elimination.
 
brett said:
Just an update guys on the jerking problem.Ok in a previous post i was sure it may be throttle related or as nunno said the peddle sensor.
Today i done some experiments when driving.The normal thing jerking at 1.5-2.0 revs at low speed.
This only happens when slight pressure is applied to the peddle and i was able to hold the jerking for a couple of seconds.My conclusion was maybe its peddle related as the jerking does this when changing gear if you no what i mean.
Also if you drive heavy footed on the peddle it doesn't jerk .Im going to have a look tomorrow if there is a small amount of play in the cable and see if there is any adjustment.I will keep you posted i may be completely wrong but its worth a look.
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Brett,

Interesting what you say about being able to re-create the jerking by using slight pressure on the pedal, I realise that taking up some of the slack hasn't worked in your case.
If I am understanding your thread correctly your saying that when changing gear and easing of the accelerator whilst operating the clutch, there is either some sort of time lag or too much reduction in fuel for the engine to cope with the change smoothly and equally with slight pressure on the accelerator there seems to be a slight fuel imbalance for the current situation.

From what Delbert has said it could be from an incorrect reading sent from the Accelerator pedal position sensor, this can be tested by Honda to rule it out.
 
To update on my car ....

Finally got around to using the code scanner and the following codes came up :

DTC P0098: IAT Sensor 2 Circuit High Voltage (MAP Sensor)
DTC P0108: MAP Sensor Circuit High Voltage
DTC P0102: MAF Sensor Circuit Low Input
DTC P0113: IAT Sensor 1 Circuit High Voltage (MAF Sensor)
DTC P2008: IMRC Solenoid Valve Circuit Open

These were all stored codes and had at some point in the past put the MIL Light on (via myself unplugging either the MAP, MAF or IMRC Solenoid) there were no temporary codes stored.

I have now cleared all stored codes etc and plan to re-scan directly after I feel any jerking, to retrieve any temporary codes generated, so will keep you posted.

My gut on this is still with the MAP sensor, but I haven't driven the car recently over the Christmas period or at least when I have, I haven't noticed any jerking, but then again I've not done any journeys that are short stops and then onwards, which is when the issue tends to arise.


Will keep everyone posted of any further developments
 
CJM said:
Brett,

Interesting what you say about being able to re-create the jerking by using slight pressure on the pedal, I realise that taking up some of the slack hasn't worked in your case.
If I am understanding your thread correctly your saying that when changing gear and easing of the accelerator whilst operating the clutch, there is either some sort of time lag or too much reduction in fuel for the engine to cope with the change smoothly and equally with slight pressure on the accelerator there seems to be a slight fuel imbalance for the current situation.

From what Delbert has said it could be from an incorrect reading sent from the Accelerator pedal position sensor, this can be tested by Honda to rule it out.
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You got it bang on there Carl i no its a long shot but when you drive the car you will no what im thinking.
When you drive the car try to keep the revs at 1.5rpm any gear and apply as soft as you can on the accelerator.As i said i can almost control the jerking to keep it there.
 
brett said:
You got it bang on there Carl i no its a long shot but when you drive the car you will no what im thinking.
When you drive the car try to keep the revs at 1.5rpm any gear and apply as soft as you can on the accelerator.As i said i can almost control the jerking to keep it there.
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I'll give it a go,

It could be a long shot as you say, but even if it is a way of re-creating the jerking for non other than testing purposes, I might be able to record some live data whilst it does it.

As in Nuno's post it did solve the jerkiness at low revs, have you tried spraying yours with electronic contact spray and fastening together?

As said in my earlier post in my case I have a gut feeling on the MAP sensor, in some ways because it is when I have cleaned it that I have had the most "pick up" in performance etc and also disconnecting it resulted in no jerking, but of course it was in safe mode therefore would be in default settings . Plus equally it tends to happen when it is a damp and dingy day.

Incidentally have you now replaced the IMRC solenoid completely or just the filter?

Is your jerk/judder quite a violent/harsh jerk/judder (like air in the system sort of symptoms) or is it more of a temporary roughness in the refinement of running ?
 
CJM said:
I'll give it a go,

It could be a long shot as you say, but even if it is a way of re-creating the jerking for non other than testing purposes, I might be able to record some live data whilst it does it.

As in Nuno's post it did solve the jerkiness at low revs, have you tried spraying yours with electronic contact spray and fastening together?

As said in my earlier post in my case I have a gut feeling on the MAP sensor, in some ways because it is when I have cleaned it that I have had the most "pick up" in performance etc and also disconnecting it resulted in no jerking, but of course it was in safe mode therefore would be in default settings . Plus equally it tends to happen when it is a damp and dingy day.

Incidentally have you now replaced the IMRC solenoid completely or just the filter?

Is your jerk/judder quite a violent/harsh jerk/judder (like air in the system sort of symptoms) or is it more of a temporary roughness in the refinement of running ?
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No i didn't spray the the connections but i may do this.To be honest i think it Nuno;s was ok because he disconnected the ECU.Iv only replaced the filter so far as for the jerking its like you said.Its worse when you stop and start the car sometimes its harsh and sometimes its not.Another thing Carl going back to the MAP sensor it could make sense because the jerking always seems to be worse on the warming up of the car.Normally as soon as the thermostat needle starts to move that's when it starts.
I think like i said its process and elimination.
 
Got a Map sensor from a scrappers, as I think you mentioned in an earlier post Carl, it seems as though there is a bit of a wait for the new ones.

Well I have installed it and the Jerking is still there. Could be that the Map sensor I got was shot as well, but probably unlikely. Also my car doesnt throw up any fault codes :)

Its doing my head in. Have any of you guys checked your MPG lately? Not by the OBC as that is pants but calculating it? I really struggle to get more than 40mpg.
 
NESH said:
Got a Map sensor from a scrappers, as I think you mentioned in an earlier post Carl, it seems as though there is a bit of a wait for the new ones.

Well I have installed it and the Jerking is still there. Could be that the Map sensor I got was shot as well, but probably unlikely. Also my car doesnt throw up any fault codes :)

Its doing my head in. Have any of you guys checked your MPG lately? Not by the OBC as that is pants but calculating it? I really struggle to get more than 40mpg.
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Well it was worth a try Nick that another thing eliminated.As for MPG that could be due to the cold weather mind.
 
NESH said:
Got a Map sensor from a scrappers, as I think you mentioned in an earlier post Carl, it seems as though there is a bit of a wait for the new ones.

Well I have installed it and the Jerking is still there. Could be that the Map sensor I got was shot as well, but probably unlikely. Also my car doesnt throw up any fault codes :)

Its doing my head in. Have any of you guys checked your MPG lately? Not by the OBC as that is pants but calculating it? I really struggle to get more than 40mpg.
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What mileage was on the donor car you got it from?

Can you get it to "jerk on command" like Brett has outlined with the accelerator pedal and if so can you record the live data from the scanner.

Did you reset the ECU when you replaced the MAP sensor and did you clean the MAP sensor or just try as is?

Of course since mentioning to Brett that i'll give the holding at 1.5k and gently adjusting the accelerator a try, the car has been running like a dream.

Not checked the MPG recently but filled up today and brimmed it (£1.269/litre advertised as £1.289 shell fuelsave non VPD station) so will make a note next time I fill it to record actual mileage.

Have you noticed any differences in the way the car drives, jerking more/less same, same points in time etc?
 
brett said:
No i didn't spray the the connections but i may do this.To be honest i think it Nuno;s was ok because he disconnected the ECU.Iv only replaced the filter so far as for the jerking its like you said.Its worse when you stop and start the car sometimes its harsh and sometimes its not.Another thing Carl going back to the MAP sensor it could make sense because the jerking always seems to be worse on the warming up of the car.Normally as soon as the thermostat needle starts to move that's when it starts.
I think like i said its process and elimination.
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Is the juddering pretty much every day for a while, then seems to vanish for a couple of weeks or so and then gradually come back and get progressively worse, then go away again for a period of time. If so then it is probably the IMRC Solenoid.

Mine was exactly like that until I replaced it, yes I had the slight couple of jerks after replacing it, but think I got rid of them with the MAF cleaning, what I have now is something that is more of a roughness, certainly not as much of a judder.

For example a place where it often seems to happen is when I drive into the local village and park in the multi-storey car park, pop to the bank or sainsbury's, return to the car and drive off slowly and the car seems to need extra revs to prevent the judder, then I get a little judder as I'm driving and then it goes this also seems to happen more if it is not a brilliant day weather wise. For me replacing the IMRC solenoid solved a lot of the original judder.

I think that there are probably a number of causes, some masked by a greater one unless it was just coincidence with the IMRC solenoid, maybe worth seeing if you can obtain one from the scrappers and seeing if it makes a significant difference, I'd look out for a low mileage model if you can, there seems to be a few breaking on Ebay.
 
Hi guys the donor car had done 54k, so a bit less than mine. Jerking is like brett's and mine does the same when you press the accelerator harder it clears.

Yes I reset the ECU, once I reset the ECU it seems fine for about 60-100 miles but then comes back. Some days it seems worse than others, but essentially its still there with not alot of difference.

So now I have changed for new genuine parts:
IMRC solenoid and filter
Fuel Filter
Air filter
Oil filter
(exhaust manifold and Clutch, not sure either of these two would affect this issue anyway)

Second hand genuine parts:
MAF including cleaning it.
MAP sensor including cleaning it.

Also run the car on VPD and have used BG244 in the past.

Finally been to HH and plugged into there machine and it shows no faults.

So answers on a postcard please :rolleyes:
 
MPG wise round time I'm only getting around 40-42mpg thats with the climate set to auto so the a/c compressor is running so thats not going to help either. As for jerking mine sometimes has a slight jerk but very slightly tends to be when its warming up but I can live with it as its hardly noticeable.
 
Cheers Dave,
Havent managed more than 37mpg in the last 5 tanks which is pretty poor for the saloon I would say, esp as my 20+ mile trip to work each day is mainly motorway.
 
NESH said:
Cheers Dave,
Havent managed more than 37mpg in the last 5 tanks which is pretty poor for the saloon I would say, esp as my 20+ mile trip to work each day is mainly motorway.
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Thats really bad Nick i get that on town driving you should be getting this weather about 45MPG.
 
Yep, tell me about it. Its getting to the stage where it may just have to go.

It shows no faults and I have replaced all the obvious parts. Might as well be driving my old 2.2 prelude at this rate. I could get 28-30mpg out of that and the fuel was about 10p a litre cheaper!
 
Nick mate i don't no what to say :blush: .I think the last option is have the car put back to stock but im not sure if that will help.If that don't do anything the only thing i can think of its might be the ECU that is shot but not sure really.
Or the only other thing is the turbo.A friend of mine always said if a diesel is smoking all the time its turbo related.
But to be honest mate we can all say this is gone and that what we need is fact.
As i said above get the car back to stock and go from there that's the only way forward.The trouble is cars of today are run by a computers and old fashioned mechanics are gone out of the window.
 
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