Menu
What's new
By:
Advanced search...

Diesel...cold start problem

BRIEF UPDATE

They are changing the manifold under warranty tomorrow to eliminate that, they think it could be a leaky injector now though... :(
 
Sounds to me like they're now into changing things in the hope it'll cure the problem. The annoying thing is that a competent technician with the right tools could diagnose this properly within a couple of hours.

Alan
 
Your not helping guys.....lol!......with me being in the middle of nowhere its hard to find a competant technician, will see what delights they come up with today, oh they also said (as did Faddy) that it could be the battery as its low on charge?????.....wtf ....they put a new one on when they did the fuel pump, I am beginning to have serious concerns over their competance now. :angry:
 
Karl, I use the Honda HDS regularly. Trust me if the technician knows his way around it, all these things we've disscussed can be tested individually via seperate functional tests and therefore eliminated.

There really shouldn't be a need to chuck parts at a car.
 
F6HAD said:
Karl, I use the Honda HDS regularly. Trust me if the technician knows his way around it, all these things we've disscussed can be tested individually via seperate functional tests and therefore eliminated.

There really shouldn't be a need to chuck parts at a car.
Click to expand...

Well yes I would like to think that they were competent in what they are supposidly trained to do......however they can throw what they like at my car as long as it doesnt cost me, their misdiagnosis in the first instance, I must have a case to a certain degree.

Hopefully good news awaits this afternoon...watch this space!
 
Well they say they cant find anything wrong with pressures or any leaks, after listening to it they say it seems to turn over slowly, which I do tend to agree with them, could this be a starter problem? I have tried to video it starting so you can see for yourselves and compare with your own....i didnt catch it from cold so these starts are after already starting once and this is the best it has ever been...you views please

http://youtu.be/0SuYgG0DATk
 
It's hard to be sure, but it doesn't sound too much different to mine. Does it sound slower when starting from cold?

Even if it is a bit slow, don't change the starter before checking (undoing, cleaning and re-tightening) the high-current (thick) cables from the battery to the starter/solenoid ***embly AND the battery negative to chassis AND the chassis to engine block - a very small additional resistance at these points will greatly reduce the voltage at the starter.
 
Yes Jon it is slower to start when cold and more often than not wont catch first time unless I keep the key cranked, I will make sure all connections are clean ..my job for tonight !
 
I'm sorry to say this but I think they are clueless! They say "it seems to turn over slowly". If they've had it on the diag machine this will tell them the cranking rpm which they can then compare with the specification - no need for any guesswork.

That said if it is turning over too slowly then, as Jon says, it's more likely to be a wiring issue than the starter itself.

Alan
 
H Peasource said:
I'm sorry to say this but I think they are clueless! They say "it seems to turn over slowly". If they've had it on the diag machine this will tell them the cranking rpm which they can then compare with the specification - no need for any guesswork.

That said if it is turning over too slowly then, as Jon says, it's more likely to be a wiring issue than the starter itself.

Alan
Click to expand...
But, but, but - why doesn't the garage just test the resistances in the wiring? Or voltages at the starter?
 
Just want to ask. This is all getting done at main dealer right?
 
Very good points above - I would also have expected the garage to measure cranking speed and compare it to Honda requirements. Then, if on the slow side, they should then have delved deeper into the cause (whether wiring, solenoid or starter motor). Then they could have quoted Karl for an eventual repair!
 
Yes ..all this is at the main dealer, they had it for 3 days to try and find the fault and change the manifold, this was all at no cost to me due to their intitial mis diagnosis of it being a fuel pump issue, however from here on in I will have to pay for any further work I wish them to undertake, further diagnosis etc.

Alan I agree, when I ask have they tested these things all I get is yes we have....they are very non commital, they also said that the senior technician will be back off his holidays next week so if I brought it in then, he will have a look....at a cost though !
 
Can you borrow an OBD2 from someone nearby? I have a fairly cheap one (D900 from fleabay), but it will accurately measure real-time engine RPM. I guess you'd have to prevent the engine firing while testing, but you could remove an electrical connector somewhere to do this (eg fuel pump pressure regulator valve). You'd have to know what was the minimum figure, though - maybe someone here knows?

Keep naming and shaming this dealer!
 
I know I'm going back to old ground here, but when you replaced the battery was it replaced with a genuine Honda battery?
 
Not sure if I can Jon...i am not that geared up on the mechanics...i know the basics but when you start plugging things in to ****yise then im not so sure footed.

Faddy...yes Honda supplied and fitted the battery when they fitted the fuel pump, they ran a test and gave me a print out of both old and new batteries, funny thing is when I took it back in and they tested the battery again they said it had lost a bit of charge so they charged it up for the day while they fitted the new manifold.....suspiciouss....maybe, but when I collected it they tested it again as I asked for it and it was up to 12.9V...so cant see it being the battery...unfortunately.

I am at a bit of a loss now ...do I go back and pay £90 per hour for them to come up with some other non founded reason for my problem, or do I leave it and just hope it doesnt get any worse....decent technicians round here are like rocking horse s**t. I just dont want it to cause any other damage as it does seem unbalanced when I start it, if that makes sense.

Oh and Jon...its Boston Honda, Lincolnshire !
 
Yes, 12.9v is a good off-charge voltage... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Car_battery#Terminal_voltage

Just for interest, who manufactured the new battery?

I still think it would be worthwhile checking all the heavy duty cable connections yourself, before paying for further diagnostics.

Good luck!
 
Its labelled as a Honda battery, will maybe have to remove it to find manufaturers details as nothing on the top that I can see.

Thanks mate will spend this weekend stripping and cleaning terminals etc ....oh joy!
 
Tell you what Karl, let them finish the manifold and then bring it up to Halifax one evening or weekend and we can run some honda diagnostics ourselves to see what's being logged.
 
Faddy's suggestion is probably the best. Modern diesels are too complex for "poke and hope" diagnostics. The problem you have could be a symptom of many things and although the dealer has said various things are OK (whatever that means!) I have no faith in their diagnostic abilities.

Faddy - do you have the facilities to do a leak off test on the injectors and volt-drop tests on the starter wiring?

Alan
 
I'm not sure to be honest Alan as i've not rooted that deeply into the HDS system yet, but I can run some functiontal tests individually on each component to check if they are operating within manufacturer tolerances, including the injectors and recoding them if necessary.
 
Blue Toffee said:
Its labelled as a Honda battery, will maybe have to remove it to find manufaturers details as nothing on the top that I can see.

Thanks mate will spend this weekend stripping and cleaning terminals etc ....oh joy!
Click to expand...
Thanks for looking for the manufacturer, but don't bother removing it to find out!

I don't think that checking the heavy duty connections should take very long - probably an hour or two? If you're really strapped for time them simply pull them about a bit to check for looseness (either of the bolt or where the wire goes into the terminal connector). Seeing as how you just got a new battery then there are 2 connections you shouldn't have to check.

Taking the car to Fahad's place does sound like a good option.
 
Thanks guys and thanks for the offer Fahad, I will see when I can get a few hours, as in the middle of doing my house up atm and time is precious ..well so the wife tells me, i still want the EGR delete and remap too so would it be best to get this issue sorted first before you come and do that?

I will see what Honda say and tell them im not happy with their diagnostics and see where that gets me too!
 
No probs. We can determine the health status pre remap, but I think your issue is possibly not a serious one and definitely not one worth chucking parts at. Even a weak injector can cause sporadic starting problems.

I helped a customer a few weeks back, (he's not a member here but found me from here) who had a very high mileage Accord. It just stopped starting one day and would only start after very long cranking of the engine, or using a touch of Easy Start in the airbox.

He towed it to his Honda dealer in Chelmsford TWICE. They ran their diagnostics, and told him they couldn't find any problems, and of course charged him for the pleasure.

I plugged it in and quickly identified two bad injectors. He replaced all four and I saw him at the weekend to recode them for him, his car is like new now.
 
Thanks mate...just out of interest what is the cost of an injector to be repleced...ball park figure? is the HDS something you can bring with you on site while doing the remap? or is that not feasable..excuse my ignorance as I have not seen the unit and have no idea of size.
 
No the HDS is something I carry with me when tuning. He actually replaced the injectors himself, managed to get them for a steal from a local breakers for £100 for all 4!!

He left some penetrating fluid in the old ones overnight to soak in and the next day they came out relatively easy. He bought a new washer/seal kit from Honda and fitted them in, writing down the injector codes for each one on a piece of paper. Even with them not coded correctly, the car started and ran better than ever before and he just waited to catch me while I was in the area and I recoded them.
 
ok well thats good news , I will certainly be in touch then when i am finished with Honda ....as far as injectors installation im not sure I would fancy tackling that myself !...fair play to the guy that did though...it must have been very satisfying for him .
 
It might not be your injectors mate, I'm just giving an example of what might be a possible cause and also highlighting the quite obvious incompetence of some Honda dealers.
 
yes I understand that mate...and thank you and everyone for all your comments and advice its all much appreciated!...I am waiting for Hondas 'senior' technician to come back and will try and get them to have another look as they have not really come up with anything yet other than getting me to replace what seems could be a perfectly decent fuel pump.

Honda happiness??....hmmmm!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top