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Diesel...cold start problem

The only two dealers I ever found to be very good and consistently highly rated are Holdcroft in Stoke (of course) and Hepworth Honda in Huddersfield.
 
Faddy, the two tests I mentioned are in addition to what HDS will show you. The leak off test measures the amount of fuel being returned by the injectors and is done using a cheap piece of kit (basically 4 bottles,a holder and some tubing). Very useful for picking up injector problems that don't show up on diag machines. The volt drop test is even simpler and uses a multimeter to measure the difference in voltage between the two ends of a cable when the cable is under load. There is a third, even simpler, test and that consists of replacing the piping between the filter outlet and pump inlet with a piece of clear tubing, starting then engine and looking for bubbles - any more than a very few signifies an air leak.

Karl, on the subject of the quality of dealer techs a few are very good but the majority are pretty average at best. Often the good techs leave to set up their own businesses or to work for small outfits specialsing in diagnostics. In addition to earning more that way they get a far greater variety of interesting work.

Alan
 
I'm not sure how easy it is to do a leak off test on a modern diesel engine, the pressures in the fuel system are a lot higher than they used to be.
Just be careful is all I'm saying, I wouldn't want anyone to injure themselves!
 
I also don't think the leak off test will work on a common rail engine such as this. The specific functional test on HDS measures the Injector duration over a 30 second cycle and shows each injectors injection duration in mg, with a tolerance of +/- 5mg

if there was any leak or voltage drop, it would show in the 30 second test. I can also test the fuel pressures using HDS..
 
Im due a week off soon Faddy to work on my house so maybe then would be a good time to get you to come and have a look and do my remap too, I will let you know when its likely to be then give you a call.
 
Dave and Faddy, my fault for not explaining what a leak off test is.

A common rail injector is supplied with more fuel than it actually injects. The excess is used to equalise pressures either side of the injector pintle and lubricate the moving mechanical parts. It's then returned to either the filter or the fuel tank, depending on the plumbing. To do a leak off test the rubber pipework is removed from the leak off port on the injector and replaced by a tube and collection bottle. There are no high pressures involved. It's one of the bog standard tests for common rail diagnostics and will show up any excess leak off, something that HDS, or any other diag tool, will not.

Alan
 
H Peasource said:
Dave and Faddy, my fault for not explaining what a leak off test is.

A common rail injector is supplied with more fuel than it actually injects. The excess is used to equalise pressures either side of the injector pintle and lubricate the moving mechanical parts. It's then returned to either the filter or the fuel tank, depending on the plumbing. To do a leak off test the rubber pipework is removed from the leak off port on the injector and replaced by a tube and collection bottle. There are no high pressures involved. It's one of the bog standard tests for common rail diagnostics and will show up any excess leak off, something that HDS, or any other diag tool, will not.

Alan
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Hi Alan - I know this is going a bit off-topic now (I still think the apparent 'slow starting' should be investigated, if only for elimination), but - when doing the suggested injector leak off test - how do you distinguish between 'normal' versus 'excessive' leak off? Is it a simple comparison between the 4 injectors to see if one is leaking significantly more than the others? I ask just in case I need to do this one day!

Jon
 
Yes, Jon, we are in danger of straying off topic and delving deep into the subtleties of common rail systems. To answer your question the ideal is to have the manufacturers leak off figures. However, in practice, it's usually blatantly obvious that one injector is returning a lot more than the other three.

I totally agree with you about investigating the resaons for the engine turning over slowly.

Alan
 
H Peasource said:
Yes, Jon, we are in danger of straying off topic and delving deep into the subtleties of common rail systems. To answer your question the ideal is to have the manufacturers leak off figures. However, in practice, it's usually blatantly obvious that one injector is returning a lot more than the other three.

I totally agree with you about investigating the resaons for the engine turning over slowly.

Alan
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Thanks. Though I hope I never have to.
 
Alan thanks for the explanation, I get it now. I've never done a leak off test but you're right it might be something Karl should explore.. and sounds easy enough to do with no special diagnostic tools required.
 
No problem, Faddy. We're all here to share kmowledge and learn from each other.

In terms of diagnosing this troublesome engine I'd suggest doing things in the following order based upon ease of testing. Firstly a code read and examination of the fuel system data (pressures, injector durations, cylinder balance etc) plus noting the cranking speed. Then substituting a piece of clear tubing for the pipework between filter outlet and pump inlet, starting ther engine and watching for bubbles. After that a leak off test and finally volt drop testing of the starter circuit and earths. Obviously if a problem is shown up at any stage this needs to be sorted out before moving on.

Alan
 
Thanks for that Alan..when are you free to pop up with Faddy to Lincolnshire ...hahah!!! :blush:

I think I will list the sequence to Honda and see what response I get from them first, however the only isssue I have with that is them just saying yeah mate its the injectors £1200 please !
 
Drop me a line we'll work something out.
 
Final Update and hopefully a result!

New battery went flat again, so suspect electrical fault..charged it up and took it back to honda, they tested it and found that the HFT was not switching off, so constanly pulling amps from battery, hence the slow turning of the starter!....so have turned off HFT and battery is now holding charge!

Anyone want to buy a starter....lol?

Thank you guys for all your help on this frustrating issue which is now hopefully resolved.
 
I BLOODY WELL KNEW IT WAS THE BATTERY!!!!

But you said you had it changed lol

Ah well, just goes to show it's always the simple stuff in the end!!
 
My God and Honda had you change a high pressure fuel pump.

The mind boggles.
 
I'm glad to hear it's finally fixed. Don't think I'd let this bunch near my car though!!

Faddy, you may be jumping to a conclusion re the pump. My reading of this saga is that the car probably did have a worn pump - remember that that the car did behave OK for a short period after the pump was changed. However not picking up on the battery drain is unforgiveable.

Alan
 
Jon_G said:
Glad it's fixed!
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At the risk of jinxing things... Glad it's fixed (again)!

If I need the parts one day, I'll bare in mind that you now possess secondhand (but possibly serviceable):-
fuel pump (although I do take Alan's comments on board),
battery,
starter.

I'm surprised that no one (including me) considered that your problem could be an unexpected ciruit drain somewhere on the vehicle. In hindsight, it seems obvious.
 
^^tis true even I didn't think it was a circuit drain, and I have actually seen faulty bluetooth kits causing this on the Honda's before..

I guess when Karl said he'd changed the battery, I just eliminated it as the probable cause.

Alan - that's true.. but I think that might just have been coincidence really... anyways, all's well that ends well
 
Thanks again guys, i am glad you enjoyed my little saga....a few hundred quid lighter but im happier now, and can now concentrate on my mods.....HIDs are in already!!...just one thing ...is it okay to put the ballast in the actual light fitting as there is plenty of space under the bulb....thats where I have them atm......so no need for drilling covers.
 
Karl, I think people have been fitting them under the headlight unit for an OEM install. Bumper off, headlights out and then screw them in underneath.
 
I stared to notice similar things for MY 2005 2.2 Tourer. It need to be cranked from like 5 secs to start in cold. Later in the day it works fine when it's work.

Battery is almost new. I am thinking of fuel filter. as It may cause this issue.

What else it could be?
 
If it’s doing it when cold then more likely failing glow plugs. Fuel filter and slightly leaking egr also probable causes.
 
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