Accord Tourer not starting

[JohnC]

Hi all,

I have a high mileage 185k Accord Tourer ctdi sport which I've owned for nearly three years, it has been through the usual problems this model suffers from, manifold, turbo, driveshafts all replaced.
My satnav has been repaired, along with arms, ball joints, clutch and other general wear. I like the car though, well equipped inside and decent performance for it's size.
My new problem is it will not start, give it a tiny sniff of easystart and it's away. Runs great, no smoke or hesitation but will not start on it's own.

I have just had the fuel pump replaced as it was only producing 130 bar when tested at the garage, I have read the Accord needs 200 - 300 to start but the fault remains?
I have a genuine Honda FF which was only fitted a couple of months ago, pipework has been tested for air. EGR has been cleaned but wasn't bad at all as I do mostly motorway miles anyway.
The garage tried using different pipework to bypass FF etc to rule out that or problems with the pipework.
The glow plugs have been tested and the Bosch relay replaced.
I had the EGR blanked (not deleted from the ECU) just to see if it made any difference to the starting but it didn't.
I have a Bosch Silver battery which is only six months old, it cranks at full speed with no slowdown until the battery fails.
I have no engine management lights or error codes, engine oil is good - no overfill.

The pressure at the rail is very low when cranking, pretty much run out of ideas now.. not keen to take it to Honda as I think they will just want to replace everything until they stumble across the fault.

Due to the mileage I don't know if I should just get rid of it, I like it and could do without having to buy a new car at the mintute though.

Any help would be great, apologies if I've missed a thread with this exact problem / solution.
Many thanks
John

 

[sibby1990]

Hi mate.
This sounds very similar to a problem I had with my Accord Ctdi.

Have you done a leak back test on the injectors to check if any of them are leaking?

This was the cause of my problem.. One of them (no. 4 to be precise) was leaking very badly.

 

[sibby1990]

Ps. I've had the same symptom you've mentioned in regards to low fuel/rail pressure and changed my high pressure pump initially... But it turned out my pump was actually fine. It was just the injector.

 

[Jon_G]

Hi mate.
This sounds very similar to a problem I had with my Accord Ctdi.

Have you done a leak back test on the injectors to check if any of them are leaking?

This was the cause of my problem.. One of them (no. 4 to be precise) was leaking very badly.

+1

This excessive leak-back fault has been a fairly common problem. And I believe many (very expensive) fuel pumps are replaced because of misdiagnosis.

 

[JohnC]

Thanks for the reply's guys, I'll have a go at a diy leak off test this week sometime.
If I was to buy a second hand injector, would the car run (without coding) I know it will be probably out of calibration.
Cheers
John

 

[sibby1990]

Yeh it will run fine... But you'd be better off calibrating it. My one ran fine.. But the test thing which Fahad runs using his HDS to show the threshold (-/+ 5mg) showed my new injector was a bit off prime performance (don't know the exact word, been a long day, exams and ***ignments, heads not working lol, I'm sure someone will come along with the correct terminology). After he calibrated it improved the reading a bit.

In regards to driving, it won't have an effect on it at all... It'll run fine, it's just better in the long run to calibrate sometime.

 

[Jon_G]

I don't think that HDS can actually work out the calibration data (these injectors are dumb piezo stack solenoids, with no comms ability), but HDS is the way to enter the injector calibration trim data (written on the injector) into the ECU so the opening characteristics for that particular injector can be compensated for. See page 49 of this document for more info... http://www.yildiz.edu.tr/~oisin/Dersler/Dersnotlari/0653611/dinjection.pdf or here's a grainy image I just found on google (as the other link is a bit unstable)... http://ageltd.ie/news/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/ima-code4.jpg where the required IMA code ends in '477'

The cal data doesn't make a massive difference to the running, so you should be OK if you can't get someone with an HDS to update the ECU. But it should be done at some point.

 

[JohnC]

I don't think that HDS can actually work out the calibration data (these injectors are dumb piezo stack solenoids, with no comms ability), but HDS is the way to enter the injector calibration trim data (written on the injector) into the ECU so the opening characteristics for that particular injector can be compensated for. See page 49 of this document for more info... http://www.yildiz.edu.tr/~oisin/Dersler/Dersnotlari/0653611/dinjection.pdf or here's a grainy image I just found on google (as the other link is a bit unstable)... http://ageltd.ie/news/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/ima-code4.jpg where the required IMA code ends in '477'

The cal data doesn't make a massive difference to the running, so you should be OK if you can't get someone with an HDS to update the ECU. But it should be done at some point.

Thanks again guys, looks like Injector #3 is on the way out.
Shame is seized solid in the enigine, managed to get the clamp bracket off but the injector won't budge. Will have another go with this weekend... maybe with some dynamite. /

 

[Jon_G]

Try putting the clamp back on, but loose, and then running the engine to see if you can 'blow' it out. I've never tried this, but this is a recent suggestion for i-CTDi injector removal on another forum I'm a member of. Maybe soak it overnight first in brake fluid as well. Good luck!

 

[JohnC]

Try putting the clamp back on, but loose, and then running the engine to see if you can 'blow' it out. I've never tried this, but this is a recent suggestion for i-CTDi injector removal on another forum I'm a member of. Maybe soak it overnight first in brake fluid as well. Good luck!

Thanks again for the replies, got the injector out and replaced but still no joy. No signs of leaks or blowing out of the other injectors.
Every now and then it will start off the key annoyingly but usually requires Easystart.
Pretty much out of ideas now, looking like I'll end up breaking the car for parts.

Might try changing the crank sensor as final resort, I've had a quick look underneath and it looks like the sensor is on a ninety degree angle but the part suggested for this model is straight on a short cable?
I'm probably missing something daft, I think this car has started affecting my mental health!

Cheers
John

 

[Jon_G]

Sorry to hear this is still a problem - did you ever do an injector leak-back test?

Excessive leak-back will prevent the high pressure diesel pump achieving sufficient fuel rail pressure whilst cranking, resulting in the ECU inhibiting injector opening... it's not unheard of.