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Problem solving bushings fitted to lower control arm.

Bounder

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Location
Co Cork Ireland
Car
Accord Type S CW3
My LCA bushes were in a poor state causing a lot of wear to the inner and outer shoulders of the tyres, the bushes still looked OK but were soft when the car was on a lift and you pried at the bushing, I estimate about 1cm of movement in the horizontal plane.
I was in two minds whether to replace with genuine Honda bushes which aren't that expensive but decided that due to the poor surface on many of the roads that I regularly drive to go for PSB bushes.
These are a one piece PU bushing but instead of aiming for performance like Superpro or Powerflex these are meant to offer a similar to stock ride with increased lifespan.

The offside was done relatively easily with no hassle from corroded bolts and it all went back together smoothly.
The N/S was a problem, the vertical bolt through the bush had corroded to the bush internally and although with a 3ft 3/4"breaker bar I could turn the bolt the rubber was just winding up and the bush wouldn't release its grip on the bolt.
I resorted to the time honoured trick of Oxy-acetylene and a pneumatic chisel. and eventually got enough of the rubber burned off that I was able to use a small set of stilsons to jam the bush while I used another 4ft piece of pipe on the breaker bar to turn the bolt, it came free with a lot of creaking and squeaking but if this had failed I would have had to cut the bolt.

The bushes pressed out easily enough and the PSB ones couldn't be simpler to fit, use some supplied silicon grease on the arm and bush and just press in with a vice or a hydraulic press. literally 5 mins to fit.

The brief check on the way back from the garage showed that noise vibration and harshness were all a lot different to the rubber ones fitted previously but the handling is now pin sharp unlike the floaty boat feeling present before.
I should be able to give them a decent drive this week and will report back.
 
Bounder said:
The N/S was a problem, the vertical bolt through the bush had corroded to the bush internally and although with a 3ft 3/4"breaker bar I could turn the bolt the rubber was just winding up and the bush wouldn't release its grip on the bolt.
My O/S vertical bolt corroded into the compliance bush inner in exactly the same way when I replaced my lower wishbones (using complete Meyle arms). Fortunately on that side you can chisel downwards from the engine bay.
 
Thinking over this job. I would recommend that anyone intending to do the compliance bushes buy at least one bolt for each of the mounts, it would greatly ease the job of you could just cut the bolt out.
The bolt that secure the forked lower strut mount to the LCA is a strange one, it has flutes along its length.
I also took the opportunity to undo the hub nuts, pull the drive and check that the splines were greased, the splines weren't greased and showed very light fretting (cocoa powder) but the drive flange to wheel bearing was well Moly'd with some variant of moly paste.
I smeared some moly grease on the inside of the splined hub to stop any further fretting.
 
Honda did issue a TSB in regard to greasing the splines and domed ends of the driveshafts (6th & 7th gen Accords) to prevent 'clonking' during parking and moving away. This might imply that these were inadequately greased during manufacture?
 
Jon_G said:
Honda did issue a TSB in regard to greasing the splines and domed ends of the driveshafts (6th & 7th gen Accords) to prevent 'clonking' during parking and moving away. This might imply that these were inadequately greased during manufacture?
No because that might imply fault on Honda's part. The cause is always inadequate owner maintenance and/or not using OEM parts and/or not going to Holdcroft Honda. As an engineer you should know that !
 
It'll be interesting to see how you get on with these. I've seen pictures of them looking a bit smashed up after a few months use. Sounds like yours have a bit more flexibility built in though.
 
I have just done about 20km and while I do feel that they are a lot firmer than the previous jelly like originals. They are not unduly harsh on poor road conditions given the conditions of the byroads that I just travelled on.

I have found over the years that a very small bit of grease can stop all kinds of clonking, I had an Avensis T22 and the steering column used to make an awful clonk, stripped and greased the splines and it never made another noise.
Grease is very underrated stuff IMO, if there was grease nipples fitted to droplinks, wiper linkages, and ball joints there would be a lot less failures.
 
I have another 300km done on the PS bushings now and to say that I am happy would be an understatement.
The rolling and nervous corner entry has gone, now the car corners as if it were on rails.
And another surprising thing is the shake from 65-80 mph has gone or been radically reduced, I was preparing for a new tripod joint or a driveshaft but it seems as though firming up the front bushings has taken the ability to produce this movement out of the equation for now.
Smoother and firmer is how i would describe these in two words.
 
Sounds good as you describe it.

When I raise my car from the front the two front wheels drop down as the compliance bushes flex - what happens with these, does the bush support the weight and stop the suspension units dropping?
 
They perform pretty much the same as the stock bushes, at rest with the weight on the suspension the arms sit flat. Lifted they hang down.
The main difference is the amount the old bushes allowed the front of the arm to move in the horizontal plane.
On mine when I got a pointed bar in behind the old bush I could move the arm in and out a lot, with the new ones in place it hardly deflects laterally.
There is a lot more support around the centre pin on the new ones, it's supported very well.
I used to drive down a friends laneway and it had two shallow ruts in it each side of the central grass strip, the old bushes would deflect that much it felt very strange liek the wheels were going to fall off.
I guess it pressed the arms inwards and made the fronts toe in something terrible.
Mine has 157k mi on it now and the stock compliance bushes get very soft after a time and lead to a lot of these things happening.
I'd take a guess and say that if you have a vibration at 50-80 and think you need new driveshafts it may just be the bushes allowing the driveshafts to flex and amplify the minute imbalance present in most drives.
Its a very cheap thing to try before you buy a new drive. mine were 30 for the pair on ebay.
I'll keep you informed as to how they hold up, they claim to have a lifetime warranty and just looking at them I am pretty confident they will last.
 
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Sorry, made a **** of those pic uploads somehow but it will have to stay that way for a bit.
 
Not zero but a lot less than the original rubber ones.
The hardness of these is somewhere above rubber but softer than the Blue/green urethane that performance bushings use.
At a guess somewhere around 80 Shore hardness but not having a meter to hand I can't tell.
The mechanic that owns the place I did the work in was pretty impressed with them, he said they were a lot more flexible than any urethane he'd seen before.
 
The original lower arm front bushes (and the Meyle aftermarket ones I fitted) had a complex structure that deliberately allowed a range of movement. It wasn't just the 'give' in the material, hence why they are called 'compliance' bushes.

I don't know why, but there must have been a reason why they were designed to allow this range of movement?
 
Noise vibration and harmonics are the primary reason they design voids in the stock bushes.If you made these out of rubber the same hardness as stock they would likely be undrivable on public roads due to the harsh feeling and noise. But the rubber softens over time and the movement becomes greater and greater until you end up with the kind of problems I encountered extreme shoulder wear on the tyres and driveshaft movement leading to vibration.
My old bushes had worn so badly the voids had become much larger than they were originally and this allowed a much greater range of movement which lead to problems.
Over time as suspension and other driveline parts wear and become softer the loads will change and you could find new OE bushes wearing much faster than usual.
I am keeping an open mind on these for the moment, the roads I travel are far from perfect and any flaws in these bushes will become apparent I would think.
I guess you could fit genuine Honda for not much more or spurious for around the same price but these look to be more sturdy at a reasonable price.
 
I decided against replacing just the front bushes as I felt the remaining pair of bushes on each lower arm would be worn, even though they looked OK (both my front bushes were so badly worn that the lower arms were resting on their respective chassis brackets).

I do have concerns about aftermarket quality but, over the last 5 years, I've fitted Meyle droplinks and upper control arms on this car and they seem to be performing well. I did consider buying a pair of Honda lower suspension arms, but they cost ~£500.
 
I fitted Meyle HD droplinks for my last NCT (MOT) and they look OK, had them on previous cars and they lasted fine. I'm toying with the idea of fitting some grease nipples to them but the backs of them are plastic and I don't know how that holds up to being drilled and tapped.
Genuine is best for sure in most cases it's just the price is extortionate for common items like droplinks, and don't get me started on driveshaft prices.
 
I have fitted these both sides today to my mk7 diesel tourer.

The front wheel vibration I had mistaken for drive shaft wobble (having tried two new an one used replacements for) has now gone, I have also been experiencing inner front tyre feathering despite tracking being done numerous times, hopefully this will address this issue as well.

For anyone who fancies having a go at home I did these on car, removed hub axle nut, comp bushing bolt, rear bushing bolt and slid the arm out far enough to expose the compliance bushing, push the drive shaft inward through hub to prevent pulling the inner engine side one out too far.

I drilled the old bushing rubber out with a 10 mm woodworking flat bit, knocked the centre sleeve out, then fed an inverted hacksaw into the void, and cut through the remaining bushing sleeve liner. (you could do this with a jig saw/ reciprocating saw fitted with a metal blade easier) then drifted it out.

I then cleaned the opening in the arm and silicone greased it well.

To pull the bushing through I did this :

I fashioned the receiver cup from My Honda oil filter cap socket, by drilling a 12mm hole through the raised nut which conveniently has a centre hole.
I used a M12 160MM steel bolt, with two stainless M12 35mm washers, and used the hub nut as a top plate only cos I didn’t have anything else to hand, but the wider here the better or at least the width of the top of the poly bush itself, a piece of flat bar the right width would probably do, as long as it had a 12mm hole for the bolt.

Greased up polybush as per fitting instructions after sliding out centre sleeve, from the top,placed top plate on top of bushing two washers, fed in bolt through centre of bushing, slid the receiver cup overbolt from bottom,washer then a M12 19mm long nut.Make sure everything looks central then spanner on bottom nut, ratchet on top begin tightening it down.

The bushing will tilt one way is it goes in, when it does, relieve the torsion on the bolt and side it across to the side that requires sending in more, then tighten once more. the centre opening is 14mm on these but two mill internal deflection with a 12mm bolt is sufficient to allow this.

It will pop in quite nicely, then just tighten till top bushing flange outer rim contacts the arm.

Dismantle ***embly, push back control arm as near as you can and re install control arm bolts ( tip I aligned the rear bush bolt first and got it started, then jacked the control arm to the level position it would be in on the road to twist it into correct position, and fed the 14mm front comp bushing bolt last.

Wheel back on, wheel centre cap removed,lower car fasten wheel nuts to spec.
Refasten hub nut to spec, stake the nut in the recess replace cap, job done.

Recommended.
T.J.
 
Nice one, they are easy to fit at home.
I too found the vibration disappeared, it must be the worn bush allowing a degree of imbalance as it is too soft.
Hopefully they work well for you, I saw a Youtube video where one had popped out of the arm, however the car appeared to be drastically lowered and it was apparent that the arms were sitting at a very odd angle, the part where the bushing sits in the arm is angled and on a car with normal ride height it will sit flat on this car it was angled downwards putting excessive pressure on that bush.
The arm on his car appears to be sitting flat.
I think under normal conditions these will indeed be problem solving bushes.
 
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